Jump to content

Hospital may not offer sterilisation, termination
New Midland (WA) Health Campus run by SJOG


  • Please log in to reply
430 replies to this topic

#1 Mummy Em

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/13...oing-male-snip/

QUOTE
SJGHC is the preferred operator of the planned $360 million Midland Health
Campus, which will have 367 public and private beds when it opens in 2015. It
said yesterday it could not comment on what services would be provided until
negotiations with the State Government were finalised.

But a spokeswoman for
the North Metropolitan Area Health Service said if a contract was reached with
the health group, it was expected services such pregnancy terminations,
sterilisation and contraception procedures would not be provided at the
hospital.



What do you think, should religious organisations running public hospital services be permitted to not offer certain services, as per their religious views?

Edited by Mummy Em, 14 April 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#2 Floki

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



#3 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.

#4 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.

When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).

#5 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

When they are a private enterprise, they can yes (even though I think it's ridiculous).

However, given that this is a public hospital for all intents and purposes I think it really muddies the waters. When it comes to public health I don't think religion should come into it, so I think these services should be offered at the hospital.

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE (eyesabove @ 14/04/2012, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.


It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.

Edited by Jemstar, 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#7 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM

I think a religious organisation should be able to do what they wish within the boundaries of their religion.

I also think that there should be minimum requirements to be eligible for geting Medicare money and one of those should be conception/termination services.

#8 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

Whilst I don't have to agree with their stance they of course have a right to decide what services they will provide. Same as religious schools are within their rights to insist on teaching scripture to it's pupils.

There are always other institutions which will perform these procedures and IME they will always refer on.


#9 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.


The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others. The issue here is funding. If the services they are refusing to offer were specified in the tender they wouldn't have won it.  


QUOTE (Jemstar @ 14/04/2012, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.


True, however all of these schools also receive public funding, as to private hospitals.

#10 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

Religious schools can teach scripture and get public funding but they can't refuse to teach science and get public funding.

#11 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Beautiful Warlock @ 14/04/2012, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



Of course emergency surgery that involves hysterectomy will be done. Voluntary hysterectomy for medical reasons are also done!
It results in the woman being sterile but she is not being sterilised with the view of preventing further pregnancy.

Early induction if the reason is to save the mother's life is also performed in Catholic run hospitals, they will not do them to cause the death of a healthy baby in utero.

Most religious facilities like hospitals, schools, aged care etc receive public funding. I can't see us expecting them to change their philosophies because a portion of their income is from the public purse.

#12 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE
The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others.


It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!  But I guess what I meant was that religious organisations shouldn't be involved in the public system (as in the OP) as they have views which might preclude certain services being offered to the public.

Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise (those greedy churches!), although at least in that case they would have the freedom to offer what they like and people can choose to take it or not.  In the public system those without the means don't have any other option and as a PP stated, religion shouldn't come into it.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#13 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



#14 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!



No, but they do have a track record of running "caring" organisations, more so than Government or private sector organisations.  There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.  (Again, in general.  Obviously there are also non-religious affiliated charities too, before someone jumps on this).

I see this as the Government wanting their cake and eating it too.  They prefer someone else to run the hospital, as it is cheaper for them.  They open it to tender - and give the tender to the best choice.... The Catholic church make no secret of their policy to not perform certain procedures, but get the tender anyway.

Is it then the Church's fault?  For me, the blame lies with the Government for giving them the tender in the first place.  

And as STBG pointed out, they will undertake many of these procedures.  If a termination is life saving (physically or psychologically) it would be performed.  Same with a hysterectomy.  But they won't do tubal ligations or vasectomies.  Fair enough.

If the Government cares enough about it's people to want them to have access to contraceptive services and abortions at this hospital, they will need to run it themselves or give the tender to someone else.  Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Governments funding decision.

*Disclaimer - whilst I am a Catholic, I also support a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, and many other things the church denounces.*


#15 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE
Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise


I think you will find that under the strictures of their "not for profit" and "Charitable organisation" status, they do not actually make a profit.  They put profits back into service provision.  Which is why Governments like them to run these services for them.

#16 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 14/04/2012, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



It is most unusual for hospitals that come under a religious umbrella to be built in areas where it is the only choice.

The public coffers fund very many things I will never utilise or agree with.....that is the way it is!



#17 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE
There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.


Not necessarily.  IME working in the community sector, large religious organisations have the edge over smaller, just as (if not more so!) caring organisations in winning tenders from Government as their overheads are lower and they can shift $$ between their different programs - this doesn't necssarily mean they can do a better job, sometimes Peter is robbing Paul and creative accounting allows them to deliver a bare-bones service for next to nothing while still satisfying the terms of the contract.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#18 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:04 PM

It would be interesting to know if te demands for these services are easily being met in the public sector in midlands.

Ultimately this would determine how I felt if I was living in that region.

#19 JRA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

I think if they are running a public hospital it should offer the services required at a public hospital.

They can get away with it if running a private hospital, but public is different

#20 Jane Jetson

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).


That makes two of us.

A blanket denial of particular aspects of health care, based upon religious beliefs which may not be held by these patients, is completely inappropriate. Doubly so where there is limited access to public hospitals due to distance.

#21 M1B2G

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

Given this hospital is replacing Swan Districts which is one of the main public maternity hospitals North of the River in Perth I do hope that while they may contract out the ability to manage the hospital it should provide the same public services available now...

I know a heap of my friends who have had their children at Swan Districts but I am unsure whether it currently offers some of the services mentioned...  

I birthed at the nearest private hospital which is catholic so I understood clearly that some of the services mentioned would not be available as they were not supported by their religious faith....

Edited by LKandsoontobe3, 14 April 2012 - 01:10 PM.


#22 purplekitty

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

It is wrong when religious doctrine interferes in the professional duty staff have to their patient.

Last year a Catholic hospital stopped oncologists from giving contraceptive advice to patients having cancer treatment with a thalidomide derivative which can cause birth defects.
My taxes should never support that.


#23 munchmum

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

Tigerdog, gingermeg i had the same experience as did others I know. Completely inappropriate given that advice on contraception was withheld whilst advising not to get pregnant for a year for medical reasons.

#24 Feralishous

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

i think a private hospital should offer the services it chooses to.
like stbg said they wont refuse livesaving procedures,  they just wont voluntarily end life.

#25 MrsNorris

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

I'm confused. Why would teh government award the contract to a health provider if the health provider cannot provide the services that the government has deemed important?  






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

How I learnt to relax about routines

After many routine-led, tough years, we've realised that being parenting isn't about being perfect. It isn't about following a schedule to a T.

Should you have a third child or not?

I thought our family had been complete with our two boys. I had no idea how much I needed my daughter until she was here.

Helping a toddler embrace an adopted sibling

A single parent by choice, I am preparing to adopt a second baby from Morocco. And I face a special challenge.

When pregnancy messes with your self-esteem

Pregnancy doesn't make all women feel beautiful. It certainly doesn't raise every woman's self-esteem.

Join us in The BIG nappy change

Introducing the new Coles Little Explorer Nappies! You can confidently rely on Coles Little Explorer nappies at each stage of your child's growth, so take the Big Nappy Change and try new Coles Little Explorer nappies for yourself!

Robbie Williams live tweets wife's labour

And the award for most patient woman in labour goes to ... Robbie Williams' wife, Ayda Field.

Vaccine ignorance is deadly and contagious

In the absence of credible, strong political leadership, paranoia about disease can go viral.

Parenting differently based on birth order

All children have unique personalities, but keeping birth order in mind could help when parenting.

How to get rid of the mum guilt

Motherhood and guilt seem to go hand in hand, but there are ways to focus

Paid parental leave scheme grinds to a halt

The future of Prime Minister Tony Abbott's paid parental leave scheme appears to be up in the air, despite the fact it is due to begin in less than nine months.

The devastation of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders

No one's sure how many Australians are affected by foetal alcohol spectrum disorders, but the consequences for those who are can be devastating.

The pros and cons of finding out the sex of your unborn baby

It’s often one of the biggest choices parents make during the course of their pregnancy; to find out, or not to find out, the sex of their baby before it’s born.

Toddler's awesome dress up month

Two-year-old Willow and her photographer mum, Gina Lee, made October "Dress Up Willow Month". She posted photos of Willow's costumes on her Instagram account, and her creative takes on popular culture are simply adorable.

Childhood around the world

It can be easy to assume our ideas around childhood are universal, but they are particular to where we live, as these practices show.

Best picks for baby and toddler shoes

Here's a great selection of footwear from pre-walker to walker ensuring comfort and style for growing feet.

I lost my wife and daughters to Ebola - then it came for my son

Sunday, September 21, is a day I will never forget.

The 'yucky' illness that took over my life

I have a chronic illness nobody likes to discuss. It involves toilet talk, and probably caused my miscarriage. But it needs to be talked about.

Prenatal testing: the facts

Prenatal testing is done to check if a baby has certain medical conditions before birth. Here is some important information about what the tests are for and the risks involved.

5 things to do with your baby?s old clothes

Did you think your only option for your baby?s old clothes was to pack them away or give them to the Salvos? Think again.

Why it's possible to not realise you're pregnant until the baby arrives

After hearing about 'surprise babies' born to mums who didn't know they were pregnant, it's common to ask "how did she not realise?" But experts say it's entirely possible for it to happen.

'My miracle is finally here'

How has the world continued on its pace when mine has been altered so drastically?

Dairy can help older women fall pregnant: study

Ice cream may be the ultimate comfort food, but a study suggests it could also help older women to have children.

Megan Gale goes topless for 'sexiest people' cover

Six months after a heavily pregnant Megan Gale posed nude for Marie Claire, the glowing new mum has gone topless for the cover of another magazine.

A new perspective on life from living with two diseases

A mother shares her personal story about the difficulty of living with two conditions, one of which stops her from being able to see her daughter's face.

Warning about Children's Panadol dosage

The Therapeutic Goods Administration has issued a safety advisory warning parents about confusion when using the dosing syringe supplied with Children's Panadol.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Take 'The Coles Big Nappy Change' Challenge

You could become part of our Test Drive team and win one of 200 packs of Coles Little Explorer Nappies as part of our 5-day challenge.

Win 1 of 5 Canon Powershot D30 cameras

Capture life more easily with the Canon Powershot D30. Shockproof, waterproof and dustproof, you can take it almost anywhere and shoot beautiful images, time after time. Enter now!

16 parenting truths you won't find in the baby books

I am five years into this parenting gig and I’ve learnt that sleepless nights and changing dirty nappies are child’s play.

Best and worst potty party cakes

It's nice to celebrate a child making the shift from nappies to 'big kid' undies, but do we really need a semi-realistic used toilet cake to do it? Here are some of the best and worst cakes parents have used at 'potty parties' around the world.

7 tips for a financially festive Christmas

Plan ahead - and do it now - to ensure festive season expenses don't break the bank.

'Go the F*** to Sleep' author's new book for frustrated parents

A sequel is coming soon to the 2011 hit book 'Go the F*** to Sleep' - and this time, it's about mealtimes.

Great birthday party buys from Etsy

Handmade crafts to decorate and personalise your child's next birthday - from banners to cake decorations, we've got gorgeous party finds from Etsy.

Join us in The BIG nappy change

Introducing the new Coles Little Explorer Nappies! You can confidently rely on Coles Little Explorer nappies at each stage of your child's growth, so take the Big Nappy Change and try new Coles Little Explorer nappies for yourself!

Creative storage ideas for the kids' rooms

Creative and practical storage ideas for the kids' toys and books can also add some stylish decor to your home. Visit babyology.com.au for more stylish modern finds for hip kids & parents.

Weird trend

Couple has five babies in 14 months

Julie and David Grygla weren't sure they'd ever have kids - but their dreams have now well and truly come true.

To the mum in the doctor's waiting room

Maybe the mum I saw in that waiting room, seemingly disconnected from her baby, doesn’t have the support she needs.

10 space-saving nursery ideas

Starting a family doesn't always mean moving into a bigger house - not yet, anyway.

 

What's in a name?

Baby Names

Looking for a classic name, or an unusual name? Our Baby Name Finder is for you, search or browse to refine your shortlist.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.