Jump to content

Hospital may not offer sterilisation, termination
New Midland (WA) Health Campus run by SJOG


  • Please log in to reply
430 replies to this topic

#1 Mummy Em

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/13...oing-male-snip/

QUOTE
SJGHC is the preferred operator of the planned $360 million Midland Health
Campus, which will have 367 public and private beds when it opens in 2015. It
said yesterday it could not comment on what services would be provided until
negotiations with the State Government were finalised.

But a spokeswoman for
the North Metropolitan Area Health Service said if a contract was reached with
the health group, it was expected services such pregnancy terminations,
sterilisation and contraception procedures would not be provided at the
hospital.



What do you think, should religious organisations running public hospital services be permitted to not offer certain services, as per their religious views?

Edited by Mummy Em, 14 April 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#2 Fenrir

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



#3 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.

#4 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.

When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).

#5 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

When they are a private enterprise, they can yes (even though I think it's ridiculous).

However, given that this is a public hospital for all intents and purposes I think it really muddies the waters. When it comes to public health I don't think religion should come into it, so I think these services should be offered at the hospital.

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE (eyesabove @ 14/04/2012, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.


It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.

Edited by Jemstar, 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#7 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM

I think a religious organisation should be able to do what they wish within the boundaries of their religion.

I also think that there should be minimum requirements to be eligible for geting Medicare money and one of those should be conception/termination services.

#8 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

Whilst I don't have to agree with their stance they of course have a right to decide what services they will provide. Same as religious schools are within their rights to insist on teaching scripture to it's pupils.

There are always other institutions which will perform these procedures and IME they will always refer on.


#9 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.


The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others. The issue here is funding. If the services they are refusing to offer were specified in the tender they wouldn't have won it.  


QUOTE (Jemstar @ 14/04/2012, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.


True, however all of these schools also receive public funding, as to private hospitals.

#10 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

Religious schools can teach scripture and get public funding but they can't refuse to teach science and get public funding.

#11 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Beautiful Warlock @ 14/04/2012, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



Of course emergency surgery that involves hysterectomy will be done. Voluntary hysterectomy for medical reasons are also done!
It results in the woman being sterile but she is not being sterilised with the view of preventing further pregnancy.

Early induction if the reason is to save the mother's life is also performed in Catholic run hospitals, they will not do them to cause the death of a healthy baby in utero.

Most religious facilities like hospitals, schools, aged care etc receive public funding. I can't see us expecting them to change their philosophies because a portion of their income is from the public purse.

#12 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE
The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others.


It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!  But I guess what I meant was that religious organisations shouldn't be involved in the public system (as in the OP) as they have views which might preclude certain services being offered to the public.

Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise (those greedy churches!), although at least in that case they would have the freedom to offer what they like and people can choose to take it or not.  In the public system those without the means don't have any other option and as a PP stated, religion shouldn't come into it.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#13 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



#14 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!



No, but they do have a track record of running "caring" organisations, more so than Government or private sector organisations.  There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.  (Again, in general.  Obviously there are also non-religious affiliated charities too, before someone jumps on this).

I see this as the Government wanting their cake and eating it too.  They prefer someone else to run the hospital, as it is cheaper for them.  They open it to tender - and give the tender to the best choice.... The Catholic church make no secret of their policy to not perform certain procedures, but get the tender anyway.

Is it then the Church's fault?  For me, the blame lies with the Government for giving them the tender in the first place.  

And as STBG pointed out, they will undertake many of these procedures.  If a termination is life saving (physically or psychologically) it would be performed.  Same with a hysterectomy.  But they won't do tubal ligations or vasectomies.  Fair enough.

If the Government cares enough about it's people to want them to have access to contraceptive services and abortions at this hospital, they will need to run it themselves or give the tender to someone else.  Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Governments funding decision.

*Disclaimer - whilst I am a Catholic, I also support a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, and many other things the church denounces.*


#15 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE
Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise


I think you will find that under the strictures of their "not for profit" and "Charitable organisation" status, they do not actually make a profit.  They put profits back into service provision.  Which is why Governments like them to run these services for them.

#16 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 14/04/2012, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



It is most unusual for hospitals that come under a religious umbrella to be built in areas where it is the only choice.

The public coffers fund very many things I will never utilise or agree with.....that is the way it is!



#17 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE
There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.


Not necessarily.  IME working in the community sector, large religious organisations have the edge over smaller, just as (if not more so!) caring organisations in winning tenders from Government as their overheads are lower and they can shift $$ between their different programs - this doesn't necssarily mean they can do a better job, sometimes Peter is robbing Paul and creative accounting allows them to deliver a bare-bones service for next to nothing while still satisfying the terms of the contract.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#18 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:04 PM

It would be interesting to know if te demands for these services are easily being met in the public sector in midlands.

Ultimately this would determine how I felt if I was living in that region.

#19 JRA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

I think if they are running a public hospital it should offer the services required at a public hospital.

They can get away with it if running a private hospital, but public is different

#20 Jane Jetson

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).


That makes two of us.

A blanket denial of particular aspects of health care, based upon religious beliefs which may not be held by these patients, is completely inappropriate. Doubly so where there is limited access to public hospitals due to distance.

#21 M1B2G

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

Given this hospital is replacing Swan Districts which is one of the main public maternity hospitals North of the River in Perth I do hope that while they may contract out the ability to manage the hospital it should provide the same public services available now...

I know a heap of my friends who have had their children at Swan Districts but I am unsure whether it currently offers some of the services mentioned...  

I birthed at the nearest private hospital which is catholic so I understood clearly that some of the services mentioned would not be available as they were not supported by their religious faith....

Edited by LKandsoontobe3, 14 April 2012 - 01:10 PM.


#22 purplekitty

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

It is wrong when religious doctrine interferes in the professional duty staff have to their patient.

Last year a Catholic hospital stopped oncologists from giving contraceptive advice to patients having cancer treatment with a thalidomide derivative which can cause birth defects.
My taxes should never support that.


#23 munchmum

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

Tigerdog, gingermeg i had the same experience as did others I know. Completely inappropriate given that advice on contraception was withheld whilst advising not to get pregnant for a year for medical reasons.

#24 IShallWearMidnight

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

i think a private hospital should offer the services it chooses to.
like stbg said they wont refuse livesaving procedures,  they just wont voluntarily end life.

#25 auntpriscilla

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

I'm confused. Why would teh government award the contract to a health provider if the health provider cannot provide the services that the government has deemed important?  






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Abbott's childcare changes will 'reduce access and add complexity'

The government's childcare assistance package threatens to confuse and intimidate many parents, experts say.

Be careful what you wish for

Remember that chubby little baby who rocked on all fours? Remember how you wished he would start to crawl? Then remember how you felt once he did?

William Tyrrell's parents plead for information as anniversary looms

As the one-year anniversary of William Tyrrell's disappearance draws near, the missing four-year-old's parents have again pleaded with the public for information that could help bring their son home.

Family sleepovers: a tribute to my 1970s childhood

My memories of those nights in my childhood are all about fun: sleepover excitement, staying up late, watching movies we probably weren't supposed to watch ... freedom.

43 minutes of terror: family's agonising wait for ambulance for toddler

It was terrifying. As the minutes ticked by little Cooper Harrison's parents felt more and more frantic.

What not to say to a new mum

Some phrases just pop out before you really think about them, but there are some things you should try to not say to a new mum.

Mummydesking: the new hotdesking

It is a paradise that only working parents of small children can understand: a place to sit for three hours without any interruptions while someone looks after the kids.

Charlize Theron adopts baby girl

A few months after splitting from Sean Penn, the actress Charlize Theron has adopted a baby girl.

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg shares painful truth behind wife's pregnancy

Facebook chief executive Mark Zuckerberg has shared a brutally honest truth about pregnancy in the hope it will help others through dark periods.  

Sugary drinks blamed for removal of toddlers' rotten teeth

Children as young as 18 months are having multiple rotten teeth pulled out as parents feed toddlers soft drinks through sipper bottles, and chocolate biscuits and Milo as bedtime treats.

Mum accidentally fake tans baby

Many of us have fallen foul of a bad fake tan or two, but this little guy's started a bit earlier than most.

Does this three-month-old say 'I love you'?

YouTube user Ted Moskalenko was filmed by his wife, Michelle, as his baby son, Ben, engaged in some baby chat.

Kids break out of daycare centre, cross busy highway

Two children broke out of an early childhood centre and wandered across a four-lane road.

Why I'm glad to be an indulgent granny

The phone calls started a couple of weeks ago. At about 5.30 each evening - if I am lucky - I will be greeted by a sweet, excited voice declaring: "'Allo Annie".

Newborn found in toilet at German airport

A newborn baby found abandoned and extremely ill in a bathroom in the Munich airport is doing well.

Is this the worst relationship advice ever published?

You sometimes have to wonder whether relationship/sex advice from magazines is designed to help or humiliate.

How you talk to your baby now can impact social skills later

People used to think that social skills were something kids were born with, not taught.

Three truths about C-section mums

Lately I've been thinking about the caesarean stories and the brave women who birth their children with strength and beauty.

Scientists predict when you should start a family

Scientists have calculated at exactly what age you need to start trying to get pregnant to have the best chance of realising your dream. 

Differently abled child

When 'protecting' a child is really a cover for judgement

Why are people so concerned for this happy child and his mother?

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

When toddlers have strange obsessions

When it comes to two-year-olds and birthday cakes there are a few requests that are usually at the top of the list. But a cake featuring a local personal injury lawyer?

When Mama Bear strikes

When we become mums, our instinct to protect our children and keep them safe from harm is so strong we're often likened to a Mama Bear protecting her cubs.  

Immunity boosters for kids

There are no guaranteed ways to avoid the dreaded winter illnesses completely, but there are ways we can boost our children's immunity.

Yes, you can get pregnant before your period returns post-baby

After giving birth, the last thing you want to think about is contraception. But you can get pregnant before your period comes back.

Mum shares portrait of her proudly breastfeeding three-year-old

Jade Beall usually chooses to breastfeed her son, now 3, in private. This week, however, she shared portraits of her breastfeeding her preschooler.

Dealing with a toddler's morning tantrums

Your schedule is not important to your two-year-old, and you cannot convince her otherwise. So what can you do?

My baby's first seizure

It was 1am on a cold winter's night when I woke suddenly to the screams of my 12-month-old son. Our lives were about to change forever.

MP breastfeeds baby during parliamentary session

An Argentinian mum and politician has caused a stir on social media after being filmed breastfeeding her baby.

Heartbreaking moment mum kisses her one-week-old goodbye

At 11.07am on April 2 this year, Sarah Marriott welcomed baby Sebastian into the world.

The best age to get married (according to the latest study)

Not too young, and not too old. That's reportedly the best age to get married. Not everyone agrees.

Fellow diner rewards mum after toddler's tantrum

Parents of toddlers everywhere know the feeling. After working up the courage to take your child out for lunch or dinner in public you are rewarded with a mid-meal meltdown. 

IVF gender selection being considered for Australian parents

Couples using IVF may be able to choose the gender of their babies and women could be financially compensated for donating their eggs.

The amazing Tee Pee bed and kid-friendly Frankie Bunk bed

These kids' beds definitely fit the brief of providing personality and personal space for little people who are moving up in the world.

The funny things kids say when you're pregnant

Since becoming noticeably pregnant, my son has taken more of an interest in the sibling he'll soon have.

The real problem with having one child

In this age of political correctness, it seems the one subject still subject to discrimination is that of the Only Child.

The fire hazard in more than 70,000 Australian homes

So far, 206 Samsung washing machines have caught fire and some have exploded. But many remain in people's homes.

How having a baby can bring on OCD

We all know that having a baby can turn your life upside down - and it can also bring a raft of new anxieties and worries.

IKEA begins massive safety campaign after two toddler deaths

Two children were killed when pieces from their Malm furniture line tipped over.

Which beauty treatments are safe in pregnancy?

Is it safe to use fake tan, hair dye and nail varnish during pregnancy?

A dad's guide to hyperemesis

I am in no way qualified to advise women on how to cope with hyperemesis, but I've learnt some lessons that might be worth sharing with other partners.

The five ways I know my 'baby' is no longer a baby

The truth is, I can no longer deny that my walking, babbling, somewhat-independent little miss is no longer a bona fide 'baby'.

 

FREE TICKET

See Pinky McKay live in Sydney

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.