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Consequences and punishment for 11 yr old
Ds too lazy to get iPod back


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#1 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:22 AM

Just after some opinions.

My DS is turning 11 in 4 weeks and for Christmas we brought him an iPod touch. All was well, we let him play for a week when ever he wanted and then started limiting the time he could play after that.
He has a few simple chores to every day, things like unload dishwasher, empty bin, tidy room and the occasional help I ask for.
We are forever having to nag him to do these chores and most times more than once!
He was sneaking in playing time without us knowing which lead to him losing the iPod for a week. He continued to misbehave each time he got it back.
Telling constant lies and not doing his chores. So the iPod was taken away and all he had to do to get it back was do his chores without us prompting him.
He has a list and has been doing these chores for 3 years, so knows what to do. He is just lazy!
So it has now been 2 months since the iPod was taken.
Now my question is what would you do?
My dd 5 th birthday is only a few days away and I think we may give it to her for her birthday, I know she is young but I can monitor her usage and feel my DS is never going to get it back so why have it sit here being a waste of $200!
And any ideas on how to get my DS to do his chores?
Thanks for reading my massive post  original.gif

Edited by beccajayne, 05 April 2012 - 09:23 AM.


#2 Futhermore

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

I'd not give it to your daughter.  That might make your son rather resentfull!

Obviously the ipod isn't his currency.  Does he have friends in the neighbourhood?  I have found 'no friends till your jobs are done' quite effective with my 12 year old.

#3 ***Athena***

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

If he is not responding to negative conditions then try some positive conditions.
It actually sounds like you have lost intimate contact with your son and thus the parent child respect that is mostly needed to negotiate these issues when children are teens/tweens.

Try talking, socialising with him etc and build a relationship that is not based on nagging so that when you do ask him to do/ monitor his jobs he is eager to please you and not resentful and not dissing you.

#4 opethmum

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

If you give it to your DD that is a sure way of breeding sibling resentment and your DS will be upset and will possibly ruin what is supposed to be a day of celebration into a nightmare.
If you have already set up in your mind that your DS is permanently going to be naughty then you may as well put it on ebay and get some money for it at least. Boys at that age have hormonal surges and they are confused about what is happening. Have you tried talking to him about what is going on and at least have an understanding why he does what he does?
It sounds like you have not found his currency and you may need to find alternative ways in which to discipline your son.
Check out www.empoweringparents.com I found that to be a great start out resource.
Good luck and I hope you have peace in your home and soon.

Edited by opethmum, 05 April 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#5 muminbusiness

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

I would def not give it to your daughter! Maybe this would work.say your going out for the day. "right everyone we are going to the beach today,but before we go we all need to do our jobs. The whole family can't go till everyone has finished their jobs.

Really helping out in the house is being part of a family and helping each other out. Explain to him you can't do it all and would really appreciate his help on these things. Ask his thoughts on what jobs he would like to do. Bring him in and make him feel some responsibility. Ie I can't cook dinner till the dishwashers empty etc.
Hope this helps

#6 d├ęsir d'amour

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:41 AM

I would use it myself, but not give it to your daughter.  When he complains you're using his stuff, you can do the "I bought it, I paid for it, you haven't earnt it back, so it reverts to me.  You want it, you earn it."

#7 galba

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:47 AM


Do not give it your daughter - you are then involving her in your battle with your son.

Sell it.

#8 Madnesscraves

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE (SexyCat @ 05/04/2012, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would use it myself, but not give it to your daughter.  When he complains you're using his stuff, you can do the "I bought it, I paid for it, you haven't earnt it back, so it reverts to me.  You want it, you earn it."


+ 1 I agree. Giving it to your DD is the worse thing you can do. Think it's also time for a chat with your son and find out what's going on and ask him to respect his parents.

#9 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:51 AM

QUOTE
Obviously the ipod isn't his currency. Does he have friends in the neighbourhood? I have found 'no friends till your jobs are done' quite effective with my 12 year old.


It is his currency but he is just lazy. When we talk about it he gets very upset at the thought that his sister may get it but still doesn't attempt to get it back.
He barely gets out to see his friends because his is grounded and his friends are trouble makers.



QUOTE
If he is not responding to negative conditions then try some positive conditions.
It actually sounds like you have lost intimate contact with your son and thus the parent child respect that is mostly needed to negotiate these issues when children are teens/tweens.

Try talking, socialising with him etc and build a relationship that is not based on nagging so that when you do ask him to do/ monitor his jobs he is eager to please you and not resentful and not dissing you.


We have tried positive conditions in the past. Lots of praising for good behavior and sort of ignoring the bad.
But you have a point ***Athena***. I do feel there is not much intimate contact but am sort of unsure how to fix that.
I guess by setting aside time for just him and me to do something fun, or his dad and him.
His behavior has been the same since about 4yrs old. He was ok until he started day care at 4 and then he seemed to change. He got picked on at day care, other kids biting hitting etc, normal stuff you can't do much about.
When he started school he became the class clown I suppose and had the older kids from after school care egging him on for bad behavior.
He even got suspended from his first year of school due to being physical with another child.
We tried removing everything from his room and he had to behave to get it back. It worked for some time but then he just went back to old ways.
Now it feels like he doesn't care.
He has even stolen Pokemon cards from family and lied about. He's only been up for 3 hrs and has already told 3 outright lies.

#10 mks81

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:51 AM

What else does he do that he enjoys...frankly that would be stopping till he gets his chores done. TV, music, sports.

I would sell the ipod and use that money for the present.

Sorry replied before seeing your last reply.

Going on by that post I would disregard what I just typed then. I say this is more serious and I would be doing counseling. I don't think this is something like just being lazy, it sounds like he has given up almost.

Edited by mks81, 05 April 2012 - 09:54 AM.


#11 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE
What else does he do that he enjoys...frankly that would be stopping till he gets his chores done. TV, music, sports.

He has no music cause we gave the ipod shuffle to dd after ds got the ipod.
He has lost his day of tv choices due to the lies already this morning.
I barely let him play the game console due to his behavior.
It gets frustrating because he gets distracted very easily, like within minutes of being asked to do something he s off doing something completely different.
I guess the only thing I haven't thought to remove is his beyblades. Its the only other thing he likes as much as the ipod.
But why is is so hard for him to do simple chores?

Sometimes I feel like a bad mum because he is being punished for his bad behavior, what feels like all the time, when I see plenty of kids around whose parents don't care. As does he.

Edited by beccajayne, 05 April 2012 - 10:02 AM.


#12 lustreless

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:03 AM

Good luck.

I'm having all sorts of issues with one of my almost 11 year old twin boys. At the end of my tether comes to mind.

#13 Ianthe

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:11 AM

Don't give it to your daughter!

Give him his chores list, if he does them by a certain time he can have a certain amount of time on his ipod.

It sounds as though there is little joy in his life. Have you involved him in discussions about his behaviour and if he has any solutions? He isn't a little boy anymore. I think you need to start approaching this completely differently.



#14 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

I was only thinking of giving it to my dd so it wouldn't be a waste of money but I really feel she is too young right now.

QUOTE
Give him his chores list, if he does them by a certain time he can have a certain amount of time on his ipod.


This sounds like a good idea. Maybe the positive reinforcement will work.
QUOTE
It sounds as though there is little joy in his life. Have you involved him in discussions about his behaviour and if he has any solutions? He isn't a little boy anymore. I think you need to start approaching this completely differently.


I did try to involve him in the punshiment the last time fortaking his ipod away but his idea was only a few days which was not appropriate for the approx 5th time of this happening.

I do feel he has not much joy but I also feel it is my responsibility for making sure he acknowledges his bad behavior and the consequences for it.

I appreciate the replies and there are some great ideas here.
I will have a chat with him later on and try to find out whats going on. Might suggest to DH we set a time limit for chores to be done by then allow a small time for him to play on the ipod if finished,and see how that goes.

#15 Apageintime

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

Sell it.

sounds like you need to get out with him a little though.

When I was a teen my Dad used to take me on dates, we'd go to lunch or something and just talk about nothing for a few hours. then when I was being a right cow he'd tell me he didn't want to hang out without someone so rude/lazy/ unhelpful etc and it really got me to pick up my act, and I loved eing trated like an adult (cause at 14 thats what I felt like I was)

So take him to the movies, or go to lunch with him, and get your DH to do the same, it won't take much, but trying to talk to him as a grown up will help.

#16 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:50 AM

pp has good advice. He needs time spent that doesn't involve punishment or expectation. Get family counselling if you need it. Sounds like he's had too much thrown at him and is sick of being bullied/pushed around by everyone around him, hence the attitude of not caring. Dishonesty is a difficult problem to overcome once it's taken hold and requires a change in approach.

#17 SCARFACE CLAW

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:01 AM

I don't have any experience with this age, so feel free to disregard what I say.

Does he do any physical activities, or extra curricular activities? Maybe enrolling him in something he is interested in would help (football, soccer, athletics, martial arts etc)?

#18 Cat People

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE (***Athena*** @ 05/04/2012, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If he is not responding to negative conditions then try some positive conditions.
It actually sounds like you have lost intimate contact with your son and thus the parent child respect that is mostly needed to negotiate these issues when children are teens/tweens.

Try talking, socialising with him etc and build a relationship that is not based on nagging so that when you do ask him to do/ monitor his jobs he is eager to please you and not resentful and not dissing you.


Perfect advice.

You've tried the negative OP, try something different.

I think a gift is a gift and I'm not fond of removing gifts as punishment and certainly not selling or giving them away.


#19 Cat People

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:37 AM

Why don't you ask him what chores he wants to do?  You might find he is more willing if he gets a say.

#20 Bobsygirls

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:40 AM

It sounds like you need to really reframe your communication with him. Obviously punishment is not motivating for him. Have you sat down with him and talked about the responsibilities of being in a family, that everyone needs to work together for the home and family to work. Maybe talk to him about what chores he thinks he would like to do and ask him to agree to do them. I don't think this should be tied to any particular reward or punishment but rather be discussed in terms of mutual responsibility, making the family work well and being able to be happy together because you all have more time to spend having fun. Perhaps discuss the fun things you might like to do together when you have more time because everyone is pitching in.

#21 PB2

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:18 PM

giving it to your DD is a lose lose situation.  She will not have a true gift, and he will rightly be resentful - it is setting up sibling rivlary and negative competition.

I also feel a gift is a gift and you will do more damage to the relationship by selling it, I would simply take it away until you feel he has earned it back, be it in a month or a year iywkim, but it is still his but he has no access to it.

Could your DS be depressed, it doesnt sound right, could someone else he looks up to, older male perhaphs have a chat with him, there might be girl issues, bullying issue, peer issues or who knows what - but there are a few alarm bells ringing.  Dont drive him away try to connect and get the communication happening.  a family counsellor ( neutral territory in your sons eye) might be a way to go for ideas and discussion

good luck, it must be hard
pb

#22 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE
Does he do any physical activities, or extra curricular activities? Maybe enrolling him in something he is interested in would help (football, soccer, athletics, martial arts etc)?


Normally he does but due to getting married in Nov and Christmas, school starting back and dd first year of school neither of them had activities this term.
They will go back to doing some this term. Normally he does 2 sports, gymnastics(he wants to try something different this time) and cricket.

QUOTE
I think a gift is a gift and I'm not fond of removing gifts as punishment and certainly not selling or giving them away.


How do you enforce punishment if you never remove any 'gifts' as punishment?
Please don't take it the wrong MadameCatty, just curious how you deal with punishment.

I have sat down and had a chat to him and I think it has helped. I tried to help him understand how we all have things we don't like to do and that as a family we all help and do our bit, even when we don't want to.
Also talked about the different consequences if say I decided to stop paying bills, or stop doing grocery shopping.
Just explaining how every choice affects us all.
I think it has made him realise that his chores help the house run smoothly.

I won't ask him what chores he wants to do just yet. I'll see if our chat has helped and also have made the decision to give him until 9am to do his chores and if they get done without asking then allow maybe 5-10 mins on the ipod. I'll try positive re-enforcment for now and see how we go.
If it doesn't work I will ask him what chores he would like to do and then see how that goes.

I will also make more time to have one on one  and see if that helps too.

Oh and try to talk calmly and almost treat him like an adult if you get what I mean. I don't think he should be treated as an adult just yet but I will treat him better than I have been and hope that these changes help to get him back on track to being a lovely boy/tween.

Gotta love EB some fantastic replies and home truths really help to see what can be done better.

#23 Guest_Dinah_Harris_*

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:46 PM

Hi OP,I am not the parent of a 11 year old but I thought I'd share my DH's experience as a child.  I don't know if it will be helpful.DH was essentially the class clown, friends with the trouble makers, doing badly at school.  He got picked on early in school as he had a British accent.  He had very low self-esteem. In fact, he was headed down a really bad path.  
in a desperate effort, his parents discovered his love of motorcross racing.  So they gave him permission to do the sport if he did well in school and stopped being a ratbag.  They invested significant time every weekend taking him to races, helping him fix the bike etc etc.  he was really good at the sport and his self-esteem improved massively.  
As a result, he started doing much better in school and being better behaved.  He loved racing so much that he didn't risk losing his bike by being naughty.His parents didn't have a lot of money, so he had to work part time and save up for things himself.  I guess the point is that maybe your son is struggling in school and doesn't like himself much?  Is there some way of finding what he's really good at and loves and spend time with him doing that and encouraging him?  
Maybe concentrate on this for a little while, then explain the relationship between being a good citizen of your family and the privilege of doing something he loves?  Would he love music, dancing, sport, chess, writing, racing?  What are his special skills and talents?Don't know if this helps at all.

Edited by Dinah_Harris, 05 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#24 beccajayne

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Thanks Dinah_Harris
He isn't very good at much so far but we did find last term last year that he seems to enjoy cricket and was actually improving every week which is very unusual for him.
I will give that a try too.


#25 Agnodice the Feral

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

I think expecting him to do chores without prompting is expecting too much. Lets be honest. Chores are boring! I wouldn't do them unless I had to, and i spend plenty of time not doing them myself!

I'd take an even gentler approach and help him with directions. Make it clear, and step-wise. Not to the point of nagging, but if he does them, then does it matter if it was prompted or unprompted?




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