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Kids or Spouse - Who do you love more?


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#76 erindiv

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE (Mitchy's Mum @ 03/04/2012, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may not like them, but I will always have love for them.


See, now this does not make sense to me. Can you explain what you mean?

#77 bakesferalgirls

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (Jacsta77 @ 03/04/2012, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I absolutely agree, however he essentially said the love of his wife his greater than the love of his children.
I just don't get why anyone needs to make this statement…ever!


I believe he should be able to express how much he loves his wife, and if that statement is how he does it, then so be it.

Just as speculation from his comments, I would take it as his wife is his life partner. Through her, he has had children who he loves. With her he has created a life. He has planned his future with her. The exact life he has (and seems happy with), is not possible without her.

I get it. I understand his feelings. I admire his ability to put it out there.

#78 cinnabubble

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 03/04/2012, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because other people can't have an opnion you don't agree with?

No. Because your speculation was hurtful to others and embarrasing to you.

Or at least it should have been. See how I assumed feelings about a situation I had no direct experience of. It's annoying, isn't it?

#79 Mrs Darcy

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:36 PM

QUOTE
I believe he should be able to express how much he loves his wife, and if that statement is how he does it, then so be it.


Of course he should be able to express his love for his wife. I think he has done it poorly. I reiterate, why does he have to compare and put one before the other?

#80 erindiv

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (Jacsta77 @ 03/04/2012, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course he should be able to express his love for his wife. I think he has done it poorly. I reiterate, why does he have to compare and put one before the other?


Maybe he was asked? Interviews can be very cut and paste.

But even then, I suppose, he didn't *have* to say it.

#81 Summers

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (cinnabubble @ 03/04/2012, 10:31 PM)
14457915[/url]']
No. Because your speculation was hurtful to others and embarrasing to you.

Or at least it should have been. See how I assumed feelings about a situation I had no direct experience of. It's annoying, isn't it?


If you're referring to me, I certainly didn't 'assume feelings' on behalf of anyone else except my own to express what I suspected I might feel in the scenarios about having to choose between your partner or your children - a scenario that others had introduced well before me, and to which I was replying with my own opinion. An opinion I have a number of times acknowledged is not enriched by having children myself. Just as some others have replied to hypotheticals posed in this thread regarding situations they aren't personally familiar with either.
I'm genuinely sorry if you interpreted anything I've said to mean that that how *I* feel is how you or others should be feeling. You are entitled to your feelings about this just as I am to mine.

#82 MahnaMahna

Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (CallMeAl @ 03/04/2012, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can do what you want. But if the thread says "Do you like dark better than milk chocolate?" does it really add any value to reply "Why do we have to like one more than the other?"  huh.gif


My response was not just to the thread title but also to those that seemed to think there should be a definitive answer to that question. So I don't see why you would find it necessary to point out that my reply was, to you, of no value. By that reasoning I could go around marking thousands of posts on here as having no value because they are not a direct relation to the OPs question original.gif

BTW, milk chocolate.

#83 *My3Stars*

Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE (Summers @ 03/04/2012, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it's a different thing to lose all of your children though. I think it would be worse to lose all of your children than your partner, but not necessarily worse to lose just one child than it would be to lose your partner, for some - though devastating, of course. (purely speculatively, of course.)


With no due respect Summer, life does not happen like you want it too sometimes.  The dreams that you have when you are first married can seem wonderful and perfect and nothing hopefully should stop you reaching them but somtimes unimaginable things can happen that just break your heart.

"Experts say that parents typically never "get over" the loss of a child, but rather learn to adjust and to integrate the loss into their lives. Still, the death of a child remains one of the most stressful life events imaginable. One-fourth to one-third of parents who lose a child report that their marriage suffers strains that sometimes prove irreparable."
Source: Jane Brody. Jane Brody's Guide to the Great Beyond: A Practical Primer to Help You and Your Loved Ones Prepare Medically, legally, and Emotionally for the End of Life Random House. 2009. pg. 143.

Nearly seven years later my husband and I still are trying to cope. Our love for our children has remained the same and has never changed.  But grief is a powerful emotion which can change the dynamic of a husband and wife relationship tremendously.  Hopefully our love will find the way.  But it has been sooooooo very hard...................  

It does not matter whether you lose one or more children.  They are all so, very, very, precious. And it hurts just the same.  There is never any way to quantify a loss of a child or another human being for that matter.

#84 Summers

Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:29 PM

I'm really sorry for your loss. I was referring to a previously posed reference to someone comparing imagining losing their 'children' as being more difficult than losing their DH. I was saying that this is a different scenario than the one posed earlier by someone else in which one child was lost.

In retrospect, I can see how this would be interpreted (by me not being clear) as suggesting that the pain of losing a child is more generally quantifiable relative to other matters and this is not what I intended to say.

I really do apologise. I lost my sister when I was younger, and that almost destroyed my parents and their marriage. The research you quoted i dont doubt for a second. The loss of a child is not something I intended to demean. I think this topic is too tricky to really 'speculate' about with the question of whether a person 'loves their spouse or child more', as people are explaining this  within the context of if they lost their spouse or child. And that is very sensitive territory to some, if not to those who've replied that the idea of losing their spouse is harder than losing their child. Though they were referring to the hypothetical scenario put forward, it's not hypothetical for some and I'm sorry that my comments (directed at those hypothesising) offended you. I'm sorry that you have personal insight to such pain sad.gif

(edited for clarity)

Edited by Summers, 03 April 2012 - 11:35 PM.


#85 BetteBoop

Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (bakesgirls @ 03/04/2012, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe he should be able to express how much he loves his wife, and if that statement is how he does it, then so be it.

Just as speculation from his comments, I would take it as his wife is his life partner. Through her, he has had children who he loves. With her he has created a life. He has planned his future with her. The exact life he has (and seems happy with), is not possible without her.

I get it. I understand his feelings. I admire his ability to put it out there.


Why is it admirable to tell a world full of nosy strangers all about the hierarchy of your affections? It's an intensely private subject to all involved. It's also irrelevant to whether his songs are any good or not.

Perhaps his kids may not find it admirable. Or his wife for that matter.

#86 bakesferalgirls

Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE (BetteBoop @ 03/04/2012, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is it admirable to tell a world full of nosy strangers all about the hierarchy of your affections? It's an intensely private subject to all involved. It's also irrelevant to whether his songs are any good or not.

Perhaps his kids may not find it admirable. Or his wife for that matter.


The discussion was about his feelings on the subject, not his wifes. His wife and children may not find it admirable but I think it's admirable that he can say something that he knows won't be popular, but he has the confidence to say it anyway. You think it's an intensely private subject. He obviously doesn't.

It is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it.

I get what he's saying- that his relationship with his wife comes first. That relationship has to be sustained while they have children at home and long after the children have left. That doesn't make his love for his children any less. My parents are the same, that's why I understand and respect it. I lived with it first hand.

Edited by bakesgirls, 04 April 2012 - 09:31 AM.


#87 canuckmel

Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:14 AM

Sometimes I love DH more.
Sometimes I love the kids more.

Depends who is annoying me least on the day you ask me.

Today it's the husband.


#88 AMPSyd

Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:39 AM

My Mum once told me very clearly that she loved Dad more than is kids and Dad comes first.

It hurt - big time!!!!!!

#89 itsaboysworld

Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:55 AM

I think the thread can surely be discussed without having to debate whose death would hurt the most.

Grief is individual and depends on all kinds of circumstances. It depends on the relationship dynamic, the circumstances of the death, the support prior during and after and all number of other things.

Loss should never be a competition. I cant imagine anything worse than losing a child. Plain and simple. When my husband was killed I was told by someone I knew who had lost a child, "just be grateful it was just your husband and not your child". It was heartless and thoughtless, but came from a place of her own pain. However she also hadnt experienced the heartbreak of losing the person you planned to share everything with for the rest of your life, the person you turn to when your children suffered so much from such a tragedy. Ive had to watch my children experience so much pain and serious MH issues since then and as a mum I feel like a failure because I can never give them their dad back. I feel like my whole life will forever be trying to make up for that and as I know I cant and as a mum its my job to make things better its quite distressing. Do I think thats worse than losing a child? No. But again, why the need to quantify?

And FTR - no one is replaceable. Children arent and neither are partners.

#90 lizzzard

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

Some seem to believe that “love” is a uni-dimensional construct – I would argue that there are different components of love, which combine to create very different experiences that can be ‘equal’ but vary in many respects. For example, is the passionate flame of that initial ‘falling in love’ phase of a relationship ‘equal’ to the close, ‘know-each-other-inside-out’ companionship you feel after many, many years together? I would argue they could represent equal amounts of ‘love’, but the ratio of components is different (passion vs companionship vs commitment), so they feel different. Similarly, the love I feel for my child doesn’t have a ‘sexual passion’ component which I do have for my husband…but there is an unconditional, biological element to my love for my kids which doesn’t exist with my husband.

Therefore, I don’t think it’s a cop-out to say the love for my kids vs my husband is the same, but different…I think it’s an accurate reflection of the complexity of “love” original.gif

Edited by lizzzard, 04 April 2012 - 10:18 AM.


#91 Summers

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (lizzzard @ 04/04/2012, 10:06 AM)
14458573[/url]']
Some seem to believe that “love” is a uni-dimensional construct – I would argue that there are different components of love, which combine to create very different experiences that can be ‘equal’ but vary in many respects. For example, is the passionate flame of that initial ‘falling in love’ phase of a relationship ‘equal’ to the close, ‘know-each-other-inside-out’ companionship you feel after many, many years together? I would argue they represent equal amounts of ‘love’, but the ratio of components is different (passion vs companionship vs commitment), so they feel different. Similarly, the love I feel for my child doesn’t have a ‘sexual passion’ component which I do have for my husband…but instead, there is an unconditional, biological element to my love for my kids which doesn’t exist with my husband.

Therefore, I don’t think it’s a cop-out to say the love for my kids vs my husband is the same, but different…I think it’s an accurate reflection of the complexity of “love” original.gif

I agree with this. Beautifully put original.gif




#92 mccarro

Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (lizzzard @ 04/04/2012, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some seem to believe that “love” is a uni-dimensional construct – I would argue that there are different components of love, which combine to create very different experiences that can be ‘equal’ but vary in many respects. For example, is the passionate flame of that initial ‘falling in love’ phase of a relationship ‘equal’ to the close, ‘know-each-other-inside-out’ companionship you feel after many, many years together? I would argue they could represent equal amounts of ‘love’, but the ratio of components is different (passion vs companionship vs commitment), so they feel different. Similarly, the love I feel for my child doesn’t have a ‘sexual passion’ component which I do have for my husband…but there is an unconditional, biological element to my love for my kids which doesn’t exist with my husband.

Therefore, I don’t think it’s a cop-out to say the love for my kids vs my husband is the same, but different…I think it’s an accurate reflection of the complexity of “love” original.gif


I agree. Beautifully put.

It is important to me that my relationship with my husband doesn't get neglected, even if that means putting it first at times to make sure it is nurtured. But just because making sure that our relationship stays strong is a priority doesn't automatically mean we are neglecting our child or that we love him any less. It's not an either/or situation. We have have enough love to go around.

Edited by mccarro, 04 April 2012 - 11:00 AM.


#93 CallMeFeral

Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE (Polly Esther @ 03/04/2012, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think I could probably live my whole life without loving a child, but probably couldn't cope without ever having a romantic love with someone else...


That's a good point. Same here.

QUOTE (Chelli @ 03/04/2012, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I discovered the answer to who I would rescue first in a disaster when we had a mini tornado rip our house apart while we were in it. My entire focus was on the kids and with keeping them safe and it wasn't until it was all over I was even aware of where my DH was or what he was doing. It honestly didn't even cross my mind, and I felt guilty about that until he said the same thing. As much as I love DH, the kids are my priority. We've discussed it though and he's ok with that.


Wow - not very often someone actually has it tested!
It's interesting, when people say they'd take a bullet for their kids/partner - I would take it for my kids, and I'd take it for my partner but only because he could look after my kids! If it somehow came down to him NOT taking care of them... I would no longer take his bullet because I'd need to be around for my kids instead.


QUOTE (fertile woman @ 03/04/2012, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a stupid thing to say in public.


Good point actually. As much as I agree with him, I don't think it's something his kids needed to hear.
Then again, I think it maybe is something Nicole needed to hear after her Tom Douchebag experience!

QUOTE (MahnaMahna @ 03/04/2012, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW, milk chocolate.


Ah... see I like both - just differently wink.gif

QUOTE (canuckmel @ 04/04/2012, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sometimes I love DH more.
Sometimes I love the kids more.

Depends who is annoying me least on the day you ask me.


Huh... yeah good point.

QUOTE (lizzzard @ 04/04/2012, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For example, is the passionate flame of that initial ‘falling in love’ phase of a relationship ‘equal’ to the close, ‘know-each-other-inside-out’ companionship you feel after many, many years together? I would argue they could represent equal amounts of ‘love’, but the ratio of components is different (passion vs companionship vs commitment), so they feel different. Similarly, the love I feel for my child doesn’t have a ‘sexual passion’ component which I do have for my husband…but there is an unconditional, biological element to my love for my kids which doesn’t exist with my husband.


There's some interesting research on this, and actually THREE separate brain pathways that can be involved - one for sexual attraction, one for romantic passion, one for attachment. The research I read was in the context of romantic relationships, but I'd actually be interested to know how much of love for children actually falls into the middle pathway as well as the last. And intensity in each pathway is actually influenced by some interesting things too - such as threat of separation, uncertainty, etc. Anyway just random thoughts.

#94 CountryFeral

Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

I don't have children so I can't comment personally.

I do know though that my Mum loved her children more than her husband.
And that my Dad loved Mum more than he loves us.

It didn't mean my Mother didn't love Dad and it doesn't mean that Dad doesn't love us... but I know that my Mother would have coped OK if it had been my Dad who had gone first, she would still have had her children, her grandchildren, her friends..

My Father on the other hand was and is utterly, utterly lost without the woman he loved.. his children and his grandchildren are nice but truly we are like a tiny bandaid on a giant chasm of grief.



#95 Soontobegran

Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE (MidnightDad @ 03/04/2012, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He has not been married even six years. If this brave passes the ten year mark of his marriage he may enter my tent to speak of the conflicts of love of spouse and children, but until then I consider him only a hollow booming log.


Sorry, not even remotely funny talking about someone you don't know who was quite possibly put on the spot with this really stupid question.


The best gift parents can give their children is a loving relationship between them. KU said his children are his life......this is quite different to the love he will feel for his wife.
The love is different, it is totally unfair to be expected to rank your love from least to most!

FWIW---MD you are welcome to enter my tent when you've passed the 35 year mark!  wink.gif
I still couldn't give you a 'who do I love more' answer. Each of my children and my husband are loved differently BUT completely.

Edited by soontobegran, 04 April 2012 - 11:40 AM.


#96 eleishas

Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:48 AM

The kids, regardless of how many years I'd been married.

#97 MilkyWhite

Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

You know how eskimos apparently have 53 different words for "snow"? (or something like that). It would be interesting if the english language had a number of different words for "love". Then we wouldn't be having this debate. Because love isn't one thing, it is many different things. Comparing love for my husband with love for my kids is like saying "which body organ do you like best, your kidneys or your liver?". Exactly, it is a stupid question and it doesn't make much sense.

Plus my capacity to love is endless. I love them all heaps and i have plenty of love left to give them more every day and still plenty of love left to hand some around to my friends and parents and inlaws and randoms in the street. I'm pretty awesome like that.

#98 katieface84

Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

My best friend and I had this talk not so long ago. Both of us said our children. We just both feel so fiercely protective of them, its really a primal feeling, as a PP stated.

We both brought it up with our husbands who said without hesitation they put us first and foremost.

As PPs stated it is obviously a different kind of love, although I think I would eventually recover if I lost DH, I wouldnt if I lost DS  sad.gif

#99 maeby

Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:56 PM

I'm with Keith Urban on this topic.

I have chosen to spend my life with my husband.  We also made the conscious decision to have children, but I didn't "choose" them (the tiny adorable individuals that they are, and who I love dearly) in the same way that I chose my husband.  I also don't feel like they don't belong to me in the same way that I "own" my husband, and he "owns" me.

#100 wrong

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE (AmityD @ 03/04/2012, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interestingly, when I asked my husband who he loved more, me or the kids, he answered with the very fence-sitting reply of “I love you the same, but differently”. I started to gently berate him for his cop out response, but then realised he had it right. Not more or less, just different.

+1
Love can be difficult to quantify.

However, if the question is Who comes first..your children or your partner?, then it is the partner.




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