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$440 Parking Fine
update at post #55


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#226 Soontobegran

Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE (bluesurrender @ 04/04/2012, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that the OP was wrong in her actions but I can comprehend her logic- inconvenience is not the same as danger in my mind.



I think the issue that people have taken is that despite the OP making the wrong choice, one that can seriously disadvantage someone less able than herself, she has chosen to whinge about it on a public forum and shown that it is not the fact that she made a bad decision and took the car park but the fact that she was caught and has the subsequent punishment for that.
Comparing fines for different crimes is a useless excercise. Many things don't seem 'right' but you'll never know unless you test the bounderies and do the wrong thing.
If I had got a fine for illegally parking in a disabled space I would have been too embarrassed to complain about the size of the fine.....she thinks she was wronged and she wasn't.

Hopefully this thread will be a warning to anyone who thinks it is ok just to park in a disabled spot for a'mini' that it isn't really.
That 'mini' and everyone else's 'mini' can render that car park totally useless all day for the person who really needs it.

#227 Guest_Starletta_*

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:01 AM

What the hell is a mini?  laughing2.gif

#228 Fish-Faced Moll

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:02 AM

QUOTE
Dear Jameses mum, you are definitely new here. So I will just tell you the basics to get you up to speed. According to EB the law about disabled parking spots was written on the tablets recieved by Moses from God on Mount Sinai. That should about do it. Take your critical legal studies rubbish elsewhere.

  
QUOTE (jameses mum @ 03/04/2012, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know! Isn't it cute? roll2.gif  roll2.gif

Moral relativism anyone?

Hurr hurr hurr.  

I know you probably both think you're quite clever and amusing with your pseudo-intellectual navel gazing, but as a permit holder myself, I find your flippancy a little off, to be honest.  

I'm also a little gobsmacked at your comparing a discussion regarding the law attempting to ensure adequate community access for disabled people (and I use the word attempting with relative irony) via the imposition of fines to EB "social constructs" like yoghurt and controlled crying.  That's really quite remarkably insensitive.  

May I request that you not group this issue with your EB "social science experiment" topics (good lord, the w*n*ery) because for many people on EB, it's a *sometimes pretty sucky existence, not just an entertaining theory.

ETA *sometimes.  My existence isn't always sucky.

Edited by Fish-Faced Moll, 04 April 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#229 Soontobegran

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE (Starletta @ 04/04/2012, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What the hell is a mini?  laughing2.gif



Someone back on the early pages said they only parked for a 'mini'  because it was empty at the time......I guessed it equates to 'a minute' original.gif

#230 Guest_Starletta_*

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

That was a pretty awesome post FFM

#231 RichardParker

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE (Lightning_bug @ 04/04/2012, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some places they can afford just to charge for time and in others, due to the flow of traffic and the need for over-turn, the implement time limits to give other's a chance.

So just charge more for the shorter stay places - people either move in fifteen minutes or pay more for the spot.  It's better than punishing people for thinking they're going to be fifteen minutes and the appointment ends up being an hour.  That's not behaviour you should punish.

They're not stealing parking time, in the same way that you can steal a horse, they're just overstaying the limit, most of the time, it's accidental.  And, much of the time, with those time limits, especially around work-places, everyone just moves their car to another 2 hour or four hour spot, 10 metres down the road.  In that case, you're not really over-turning at all, just making everybody move their cars 10 metres every few hours just to avoid a fine.  Complete waste of everyone's time and money.

#232 steppy

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Reading about the size of some parking fees around shopping centres and such (never mind fines for overstaying), I'm really surprised that more people aren't shopping over the web and even more surprised that retailers would expect them not to.  There is simply no way I would pay $9 to park for half an hour. I'd just avoid that area.

#233 mks81

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:39 AM

I have a disabled permit myself but actually think you should write to council explaining about your sick child. I personally think it may be justified in at least getting the fine reduced.

#234 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:48 AM

For the self ascribed nimble minded who are here for a social experiment this thread has it all. People mindlessly repeating inaccuracies, people making false claims, people assuming they understand the intent of others. It's looking like a genuine exercise in stupidity by a minority. What appears to be clear though is how resolutely determined the self absorbed are.

Greenbag your "solutions" to parking turnover are proving how determined many are to flout the deterrent despite any inconvenience. There are other factors at play with this type of decision making, much of which is focused on personal convenience over and above consideration of others. Laws are usually made with consideration for all believe it or not.

#235 Fish-Faced Moll

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

QUOTE
For the self ascribed nimble minded who are here for a social experiment

LOLOL, burn.

#236 Soontobegran

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:58 AM

QUOTE (Buy Me A Pony ! @ 04/04/2012, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For the self ascribed nimble minded who are here for a social experiment this thread has it all. People mindlessly repeating inaccuracies, people making false claims, people assuming they understand the intent of others. It's looking like a genuine exercise in stupidity by a minority. What appears to be clear though is how resolutely determined the self absorbed are.


Just because I feel it is worth reading again!

#237 follies

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

QUOTE (Display anemone @ 04/04/2012, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not where I park.

Help st car park

Car Park Rates
0 - 0.5 hr $9.00 0.5 - 1 hr $19.00 1 - 2 hrs $29.00 2 - 3 hrs $39.00 3 + hrs $49.00


The Chase and Westfield are only allowed to charge $5 for 3+ hours and no more than $40 for 8+ hours/lost ticket. One year the westfield tried to reduce the free parking limit to 2 hours and were threatened with all sorts of fines. Help street is a council owned car park so obviously they can do whatever they want as it is different story when you are taking the cash. Also if you are willing to walk the whole of 5 minutes it is easy to find unlimited street parking, I wouldn't call it an unsafe area.

#238 Soontobegran

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:05 AM

QUOTE (GreenBagCat @ 04/04/2012, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They're not stealing parking time, in the same way that you can steal a horse, they're just overstaying the limit, most of the time, it's accidental.  And, much of the time, with those time limits, especially around work-places, everyone just moves their car to another 2 hour or four hour spot, 10 metres down the road.  In that case, you're not really over-turning at all, just making everybody move their cars 10 metres every few hours just to avoid a fine.  Complete waste of everyone's time and money.


What about those people driving into an area looking for a car park who perhaps haven't needed to be there all day?
Timed car parks are to allow throughput. People are supposed to go and move their cars which actually frees up their space for another car that is looking for one.
If you need a car park all day then you find an all day car park or take public transport.


#239 RichardParker

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM

QUOTE (Buy Me A Pony ! @ 04/04/2012, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Greenbag your "solutions" to parking turnover are proving how determined many are to flout the deterrent despite any inconvenience. There are other factors at play with this type of decision making, much of which is focused on personal convenience over and above consideration of others. Laws are usually made with consideration for all believe it or not.

I'm sure you're right.  But council's don't have the right (IMO) to punish people for being inconsiderate.  Put a price on, yes, but not punish.  The council isn't my mother.  If I'm inconsiderate, and decide that I need a one hour car-space for two hours, I should just be charged what that costs the community, not punished with a fine like a naughty child.  Why assume I'm an evil person trying to steal parking?  Why not assume I've read the sign wrong, or been caught up, or, made a decision that I really need this parking space right now, and allow me simply to pay for the parking that I've used?

All it requires is a change of perspective on behalf of lawmakers who view the general population as mischievous and dishonest.  Why not build a culture of trust and honesty?  I'd much rather invest money in a community by exercising choice than have it taken off me by force in fines.

#240 RichardParker

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

QUOTE (soontobegran @ 04/04/2012, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What about those people driving into an area looking for a car park who perhaps haven't needed to be there all day?
Timed car parks are to allow throughput. People are supposed to go and move their cars which actually frees up their space for another car that is looking for one.
If you need a car park all day then you find an all day car park or take public transport.

I understand what timed car parks are there for.  I'm just saying we should make the overstaying COST a lot as opposed it risking a punitive FINE.  Make the car park free for the first two hours, then $60 per hour (or whatever) after that.  That will still achieve through-put, because most people won't want to pay that much for parking.  But for the few that DO get caught up with something beyond their control, or they make a conscious decision to stay longer, they're not risking a fine, they're just choosing to pay for what they use.  It's a subtle difference but I think it treats the population with respect, rather than viewing them as selfish parking thieves who need to be slapped on the wrist at every opportunity.


ETA - I'm not actually here for a social experiment and consider myself far from nimble minded.  I do actually believe that parking fines for overstaying time-limits are unjust.  I also think they are a completely different kettle of fish to fines imposed for parking in spots reserved for PWD.

Edited by GreenBagCat, 04 April 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#241 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

Behaviour modification is about the carrot or stick Greenbag. We have a balance of both but you're actually advocating for stick whilst insisting it's a carrot. Financial penalty is still penalty whether you call it's a fine or a charge. The interplay is why people decide it's ok to overstay. Many look at that risk as being worth it.

#242 I'm Batman

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

I'm finding this thread so bizzare.

If you can't afford the fine in a whole amount, just pay regular sums and they don't go to enforcement.

Making a judgement error doesn't make you a bad person. You just have to live within the law or deal with the mistakes you've made. Throwing a big tanty and trying to get out of the fine means you really don't understand why you've been fined. It's not about something feeling unfair to you, it's not just about you, the disabled parking is there to level the playing field for those who can't walk, or can't walk far.

The disadvantage you may feel because of the fine is just a drop in the ocean compared to the financial and personal costs of experiencing a lack of mobility.



#243 RichardParker

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

I'm not insisting it's a carrot at all.  I know it's still a cost.  But it's a cost in the form of a conscious decision to pay, as opposed to a punishment imposed.  Deciding to risk getting a fine is different to deciding to pay a premium for a convenience.

Many people will risk the possibility of getting a fine, but fewer will agree to certainly pay a premium for the extra parking.  I would argue (and am sure that psychological evidence on risk assessment and behaviour would support) that you would actually get fewer people overstaying their parking if they knew FOR CERTAIN they'd have to pay more, than you would if they knew there's A CHANCE of getting fined.

So if the goal of these altruistic lawmakers really is to achieve equity of parking via through-put of cars, they would implement an evidence-based system that plays on the real behaviour of people when it comes to risk taking.

#244 Gumbette

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (GreenBagCat @ 04/04/2012, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And, much of the time, with those time limits, especially around work-places, everyone just moves their car to another 2 hour or four hour spot, 10 metres down the road.


Slightly off topic but I think they fine you for that too.  If you're still in the same stretch of parking with the same time limit, it doesn't matter whether you move it 1 spot down the road or 10, they can still fine you as if you haven't moved at all.

#245 itsaboysworld

Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

IN our region the disabled parking permits are valid for I think two years and its up to the permit holder to ensure they apply to a new one within the valid time. I once unknowingly parked in a disabled parking spot the day after my permit had expired. I was fully entitled to a new permit and got one the following day.

HOWEVER, I was fined on the day after my permit had expired and I sucked it up and paid the fine as I hadnt adhered to the rules.

People throw around the term entitlement here pretty often but this really the a matter of that. I am not "entitled" because I fit the criteria, I am only entitled to use those parks if I abide by the laws governing them.

Edited by itsaboysworld, 04 April 2012 - 10:42 AM.





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