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ISOFIX Is coming
or is it?


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#1 PrizzyII

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/better-...0328-1vytr.html

So it appears that the media is suggesting that ISOFIX is coming in 2013. My information (as a restraint fitter) is that the story started on a Choice forum, so they’re responsible as well by misquoting the Standard committee chairman from a AS1754 standards meeting in March 2011 in the first place. The writer refers to how lucky we were to meet Lotta last year, whoopee!. She was here to sell Volvo cars, by raising their profile at the expense of public confidence in the AS1754 Std. Just a Volvo marketing initiative, free advertising which is clever but not part of the story.

So, what do you think? Without being too much in the camp that many are - its european ergo its better - will you be going out and investing in new ISOFIX compliant child restraints?

#2 carolinej

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:04 PM

I would never use anything else.


#3 mommyoffour

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:07 PM

"She was here to sell Volvo cars, by raising their profile at the expense of public confidence in the AS1754 Std. Just a Volvo marketing initiative, free advertising which is clever but not part of the story."

Yes, just like her predecessors promoted seatbelts back in the '70s. rolleyes.gif

I think the Swedish statistics on rear-facing car seats to four years old speak for themselves.  Google it.

#4 PrizzyII

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:11 PM

I'm not disputing the benefits of ISOFIX but to pretend she was here for anything other than a marketing exercise is naive. I spend all day every day fitting carseats and capsules, I don't need to google thanks anyway.
I just think the response needs to be a bit measured and I don't think its as cut and dried, particularly implementation and timewise as it appears.

#5 3_for_me

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:24 PM

Why the angst over a system that is well regarded OP?  Is this simply a vent over concerns for what is clearly currently part of your own income and will be less necessary using the more reliably fitted LATCH/ISOFIX seats?

#6 PrizzyII

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

No angst and no, its not part of my income stream, fitment is free with the product. biggrin.gif
I'm just curious as to how many people want to see it introduced and wondering - forgot to ask this question - how many great products do you think will be available to us once we can use ISOFIX in Oz. Oh and I'll also be interested to see what the aussie car manufacturers response is, I've always wondered (bit of a conspiracy theory lover) if they didn't have any hand in holding this technology back from Australian families.

I don't think that the answer is in the media story, that's all. Its not necessarily going to be approved so fast that's all from what I'm hearing on the grapevine amongst other fitters etc.

#7 3_for_me

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

Fair enough then, just came across that way a little original.gif

Personally I think there are more people calling for a higher weight five point harness system than there are calling for ISOFIX but I'd say that is because they are less aware of the benefits of ISOFIX.  I love having the higher weight five point seat for DS1, makes me a much happier mum.

#8 PrizzyII

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:00 PM

It did didn't it? I apologise for that. I was reading a rather scathing review of the media coverage from someone who is heavily involved in the industry at the time of posting and getting all a bit "yeah yeah you're so right" original.gif sorry.
I think the higher weight limits will be great but having at the discussion on FB - its not of interest to everyone:
Some of the responses just leave me flabbergasted.

I'm definately team ISOFIX - would make it much safer for kids with such a lower rate of incorrect fitment - I'm just not certain that its all going to happen quickly if at all. But be happy if it does. I'd love some of those coloured Maxi Cosi seats to hire out original.gif

Edited by lucky 2, 29 March 2012 - 09:31 PM.
r/o link to competitor FB site per EB Rules


#9 bluedragon

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:15 PM

I don't think it can come fast enough to be honest. I've had a chance to install an ISOFIX seat, took all of about 2 mins and was really sturdy.

On the other hand we had to go get DSs capsule fitted by a trained fitter because we just couldn't get it fitted well enough. It's ridiculous.

Also anything that would allow for longer rear facing is great in my opinion, 12kg just isn't big enough especially for babies like DS, 10 months old and already well over 10 kg sad.gif

#10 podg

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

Has there been a lot of interest from car seat companies in getting their ISOFIX seats certified for Australia? There seem to be many seats (ISOFIX and other) available elsewhere (eg NZ) that Australia's standards - and costs of testing - have prevented coming here.

#11 Isolabella

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:28 PM

Extended rear facing and ISOFIX are two totally separate issues.

We currently have provision in the Australian Standard (and have had for years) for a "Type D" restraint which is a rear facing restraint for children to 4yrs.

It is just that as yet manufacturers have seen no need (or market) to create a RF restraint to 4yrs.


ISOFIX on the other hand is for ALL types of restraints (ie. RF. ERF. FF and Boosters).


What has happened is at the moment the FIRST HURDLE to getting ISOFIX here has been jumped. The ADR (Aust Design Rule) for cars has been changed which means that from Nov this year all cars plated from them (ie. approval plated not registered plated) will be required to have ISOFIX points.


No research has clearly shown again and again that apart from being nearly idiot proof to install ISOFIX  is also SAFER then our TT/Seatbelt in Side impact accidents. Even research  done with a Holden Commodore (modified) with the same shell Aussie seat (with TT/Seatbelt  and TT/Latch and TT/ISOFIX) also came to the conclusion (which also marries up with overseas research) that ISOFIX is superior in side impact accidents.


So yes now the ADR for child restraints has changed.

Now stage II has to happen - for the Australian Standard for Child Restraints to be changed to include ISOFIX fittings. As PP has pointed out there is some debate in the media as to whether it is a 2013 due date for the standard to be updated or 2013 due date for the START of discussions over a proposed new standard.

Either way once Stage II has been passed it is then onto the manufacturers for Stage III - actual research and design of an Aussie Standard ISOFIX seat as our Aust Std is not just about performance it is also about the actual DESIGN of the seat (which is why we have issues with foreign seats - they all have to be modified for our standards).

So then you pass Stage III - you have done your R&D.... now you have to pass Stage IV which is actually to get your new seat approved by Standards Australia. Even if you do get your seat approved first go, history shows a lag of at least 4-6m between 'approval' and a seat hitting the shelves in the stores.

So personally I would not be holding my breath for an Aussie standard approved ISOFIX seat before 2015.



#12 BadgerBasher

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:30 PM

I seriously want a RF seat that goes higher than 12kgs. Bean will make it to one, but it's still so tiny and young sad.gif

If they could introduce ISOFIX in the next few months that'd be awesome, but it's not going to happen, if ever.

#13 Isolabella

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:31 PM

QUOTE (podg @ 29/03/2012, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has there been a lot of interest from car seat companies in getting their ISOFIX seats certified for Australia? There seem to be many seats (ISOFIX and other) available elsewhere (eg NZ) that Australia's standards - and costs of testing - have prevented coming here.



No NZ legislation makes BOTH Aust/NZ 1754 car seats a legal standard PLUS the EU R44-04 (european standard) as legal standards.

If Australia changed its legislation to approve EU R44-04 seats as OK to use we would be able to use ISOFIX seats like NZ. That would be a very easy quick fix but as you all know "Aust stds are the best in the world" (taken from back in the late 1980's early 1990's). The world has moved on since then.... pity Standards Australia didn't.


Also note back in 2005 after the last standard update they slated ISOFIX to be in the next standard update.... well it wasn't in the 2010 update mad.gif



#14 Chelli

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

Hi,
I'm going to move this thread to the Child Restraints forum so that members there can benefit from this latest information.

Kind regards
Chelli

#15 PrizzyII

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE
So personally I would not be holding my breath for an Aussie standard approved ISOFIX seat before 2015.

That was my first thought too IsolaBella. That and the fact that the media had misreported the facts which is nothing new. The way its being reported is that its here, its just a matter of a year passing and its a done deal when that's just not the case. I rather badly attempted to discuss that but with one hand on a sick kid and the other hand on a letter from someone pointing out the failures in the reporting I did a rather bad job I admit.
I'm glad you posted, I was hopeful of hearing what you knew.

#16 Isolabella

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

It would be nice if they could just import something like this

http://www.britax.co.uk/car-seats/trifix/overview

But then again looking at that seat and the new '2010' standard seats the side wings are not big enough for us Aussies.



#17 ~Sorceress~

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

ISOFIX is coming?! Yay .

ISOFIX is SO much easier to use. It's almost criminal that it isn't already an option for Australians! rant.gif

Edited by lucky 2, 29 March 2012 - 11:07 PM.


#18 Isolabella

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:54 PM

Sorceress - yes it is coming but not for anytime in the near future (unlike the articles suggest).

It has been 'coming' since 2004.... still waiting. 2015 is my early bet for an Aussie ISOFIX seat... 2017 is mid term bet.

I will admit that I would love to be proven wrong though.



#19 WinterIsComing

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

What is Isofix?

Do any cars already come with it?

Our installer mentioned that our 08 Camry has its own restrain anchor...is this it?

Is it like an universal hook that comes inbuilt with cars to which all manners of seats can be attached?

Are cars like that already available in OZ?

A quick summary would be appreciated....



#20 Isolabella

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

This is a good read (also shows Type D restraints):

http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/in...l/itemId/973975


ISOFIX is two D type rings which are between the rear seat fold. Two arms come out of the back of the seat and click directly onto this (which makes it secure rock solid to the frame of the car). In Australia you will then have to attach your top tether point as usual. What it does do is take all that fartassing about with the seatbelt and trying to get a secure fit. The secure fit is achieved in seconds (which makes it super easy to move seats between cars).

You can see pictures etc here:
http://childrestraints.co.nz/isofix-latch.php


Most cars sold in Australia for the past 5yrs at least have ISOFIX.... but not if you drive a Holden or Ford sad.gif . So Asian, EU, US cars mostly have ISOFIX. Mazda, Toyota, Honda, etc have had it in their cars for years. Most cars have either tags on the rear seatback (down the bottom) saying "ISOFIX" or have a little button saying "ISOFIX" (although I will say I found my Honda Jazz ISOFIX points by feeling between the car seat back)

My 2004 Honda Jazz had it. DH's 2007 CRV has it.

#21 lucky 2

Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

Hi,

I have removed one post and edited another as discussing the personal use of non-legal car restraints is in breach of the EB Site Rules.

The link below is to a pinned topic in this forum and gives further details.
http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/forums/ind...howtopic=935288

Regards,

lucky 2
Moderator- Car Restraints

#22 Feraldadathome

Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (Nat1976 @ 29/03/2012, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is Isofix?

Do any cars already come with it?

Our installer mentioned that our 08 Camry has its own restrain anchor...is this it?

Is it like an universal hook that comes inbuilt with cars to which all manners of seats can be attached?

Are cars like that already available in OZ?

A quick summary would be appreciated....


ISOFix seats are illegal in Australia. Isolabella made clear in her post some of the strong negatives of the current position. In my post that was deleted I mentioned that my 1998 VW Golf, 2004 Subaru Outback and 2010 Skoda Scout have all had ISOFix points. The article quoted by the OP also suggested that, although locally made cars which are exported (Commodore? Camry?) have ISOFix points installed for export, they haven't been installed in local models to date.

#23 Lenats31

Posted 02 April 2012 - 05:21 PM

As far as I have heard, Isofix was introduced because both the car seat manufactorers and the car manufactorers called for a simple system to fit car seats. A large percentage of belt fitted seats overhere are incorrectly fitted.  parents don´t read the manuals - and that is not caused by lack of ability to read mad.gif (I´m in Denmark)

It is a simple fitment system that even grand parents know how to to fit.

The problem with isofix is that allmost all parents think the system removes ALL possible risks for errors, which it doesn´t. The percentage of incorrect use is very high. isofix does not solve problems with faulty use.

The seat are exspensive and heavy to lift

Regarding higher weight seats forward facing: ONLY for children that weigh 18 kg before their 4rth birthday.

NO safety related benefits have been found with the use of higher weight seats that are forward facing other than disabled chidlren and heavy children.

Edited by Lenats31, 02 April 2012 - 05:26 PM.





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