Jump to content

Catholic orders

5 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

Can someone explain the existence of orders to me? I have thought that the Church was a universal concept to Catholics and that they don't acknowledge other denominations as being valid due to the lack of authority via history. So how are the orders explained as being distinct from other denominations? If they form their own philosophies then are they not too breakaways from The Church? Why are certain orders acknowledged and others declared to not meet vatican requirements? Are these unapproved orders then regarded as being similar to other denominations in the eyes of The Church?

Also on quite a separate topic (but similar), can anyone explain why a rational mind might agree that something is black when it appears to be white? I'm assuming that the rational mind is also the highest (and therefore the correct thinking) mind, or does this contradict reason when applied below.

Rule 13 of Ignatius' Rules for Thinking with the Church said: "That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity[...], if [the Church] shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."

This statement appears to be suggesting that people turn away from their own reasoning to follow external teachings. This seems to be contrary to what Jesus taught.

#2 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

*Disclaimer - I am not a Roman Catholic* (although I am an associate of a monastic order).

Orders are communities of people who live and work together, usually with a particular focus (or charism) to their life.  So, for example, some orders are known as teaching orders, or nursing or missionary or contemplative orders.  Some (such as the Salesians of St. John Bosco) might focus on youth work, or like the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa's order) in working amongst the poor, or whatever.  In this sense they're specialists within a denomination (mostly Roman Catholic, although I know of Anglican, Orthodox and Coptic orders as well).  

Although they might form their own philosophies - the Franciscans having a particular emphasis on poverty, or the Society of Jesus on spiritual discernment - Roman Catholic orders are still obliged to adhere to the order and governance of their denomination.  They are, however, often a little more free than say, regular priests, as their organisational structure can protect them from interference by local bishops.

I don't know anything about the process for a new community gaining official recognition by Rome.  But provided they still adhered to the teachings of Rome, even an unapproved community would still be seen as Catholic; its members would just not be recognised as consecrated monks or nuns.

Ah, the quote you have given is a famous one.  I am not expert in this part of Ignatius' teachings, but I would comment that this is not a teaching intended to tell Catholics to check their brains at the door, or to accept every whim of their local priest as if it is infallible.  It is, however, a warning that if there is something that the Church has always historically accepted as true, and which is accepted by all Christians, (let's say, for example, the idea that God speaks to us through Scripture), then it is dangerous for a Christian to set teaching of that kind of gravity aside, because it's easy for one person to be in error.

I hope that helps - please ask more if I've been unclear!

#3 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

Thanks Ange. So why can't people work toward their stated goals without forming an order but still remain under the Church? I mean, surely they have the same goals as the Church if they identify with it? If they are separate from Church hierarchy then are they not also separate from the Church? This is the part that doesn't make sense to me - orders appear to have formed breakaway groups with their own heirarchy.

Edited by Buy Me A Pony !, 18 March 2012 - 02:27 PM.

#4 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

Ah, okay.

Think of it like an org chart.  Ultimately, everyone's under the church's authority - but orders are off in a separate part of the org chart to, say, local priests.  So a Jesuit in Melbourne will be responsible to his local superior, then the provincial, then the overall leader of the order who will be ultimately responsible through some structure to Rome (for example, I might have the detail wrong), where the priest in the next parish will be responsible to the local bishop, then the archbishop, then the pope.  

So not breakaway groups, but ones which cross diocesan boundaries and work within different structures to enable a different kind of work practice.  As you can imagine, that's particularly important for the missionary orders, otherwise every time they crossed a diocesan boundary they'd have to renegotiate what they were doing with the bishop of that diocese.  But even for more enclosed orders, it allows them to regulate their own community life rather than be micromanaged by external parties.

#5 Mamabug

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

I have nothing to add, but am finding this really, really interesting! Carry on, please.

#6 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

lol now I get it. It's just like the public service - separate ministries with their own leadership and goals but still under the government!

Reply to this topic


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


Join the Real Mums Test Drive Team

Five new mums will join the Essential Baby Test Drive Team and discover great new baby toys from Fisher-Price & write a review to be published on Essential Baby.

Two children fall from second storey window

Two young boys have been rushed to hospital after falling out a second-storey window of a home in Eastwood.

Victorian Labor to introduce same-sex adoption laws

Thousands of same-sex couples with children will have the right to be jointly recognised as parents by Victorian law.

Sneak peek: Maxomorra bee dress, t-shirt and romper for babies

Cutest snap find on the planet - bee rompers, tees and dresses for babies.

Toddler found two days after going missing

A two-year-old girl who disappeared on Friday night from her great-grandparents' home in rural Ohio was found alive Sunday evening in a nearby field.

Dad builds the ultimate bed for his toddler son

The transition from cot to big kid bed might be a little easier if every toddler had a bed like this one.

Is Woolworths now cheaper than Coles?

Woolworths appears to have taken the upper hand in its price battle with Coles after investing millions of dollars lowering the cost of groceries, according to new figures.

Aussie babies and parents stranded in Nepal after surrogacy ban

Parents say Australian babies are being "kept captive" and cannot come home after a ban on commercial surrogacy in Nepal.

Wannabe dads left behind in IVF debate

If virgin women can become mothers through IVF, maybe we're ready for another miracle - genuine equality for men in the parenting debate.

The health and fitness lessons I've learned

What I once assumed about health and fitness is wrong.

Our angel baby story: Hunter James

I have two children: one living, the next an angel baby.

Newlyweds send bill to no-show guests

Planning a wedding can be stressful – and, as most newlyweds can attest, it can be very costly, too.

Your choice or theirs: the tug-of-war over baby names

They had just decided on a name they both agreed on, but then the grandparents threw in an offer of $10,000 in exchange for choosing something else.

Dad-to-be's tearful reaction to pregnancy news goes viral

After 17 years of trying, this man had given up hope of having a family.

Claire Danes: acting out postnatal depression was difficult

Actress Claire Danes found it difficult pretending to have postnatal depression in Homeland, as she had just become a new mother herself.

The moment a 92-year-old meets her great grandaughter

It's a heart-warming photo this family will treasure forever.

How to prepare for breastfeeding when you're still pregnant

While every woman's breastfeeding journey is different, many hurdles are shared. Knowing what to expect will enable you to make informed decisions if - or when - you meet challenges along the way.

Sneak peek: new Love Mae bamboo dinnerware designs

We do love ourselves some brand new designs in tried and true products. The renowned bamboo dinnerware from Love Mae has just had several more members join the family, in addition to a brand new website.

Mum who killed paedophile gets reduced sentence

A mother-of-five who killed a paedophile has had her jail sentence reduced by a judge who described her case as a "truly exceptional" one.

Sneak peek: Geleeo self-cooling pram & high chair liners

We just spotted Geleeo, a brand new self-cooling pram liner you can buy in time for summer.

Toddler's silent debate with mum about naptime

He might not utter a single word - but this toddler is having a great debate with his mother about nap time.


What's hot on EB

Stella McCartney honours mum with lacy bra

Fashion designer Stella McCartney has honoured her late mum, Linda McCartney, by designing a special bra for post-mastectomy patients.

Don't panic: A granddad midwife's guide for dads-to-be

Mark Harris has helped deliver 500 babies. And he's now telling fathers what to expect.

How to be a calm parent when you're feeling anything but

Being a calm parent takes a lot of work, sometimes more than is obvious to those around us.

The joy and isolation of being a stay-at-home dad

It's cool, kind of like a second childhood. I love him to bits and think, on average, I'm an okay dad. But I also want to talk about the other stuff.

How baby Teddy's short life is helping save thousands of lives

He may have only lived for 100 minutes, but that didn't stop baby Teddy from saving the lives of others.

A heartbreaking trail of missed chances in death of baby forgotten in car

A haunting reminder to stay mindful about babies in cars, especially as we approach summer.

What to do if your baby has tongue-tie

Tongue-tie can cause feeding problems. However once it is diagnosed, the condition can be easily treated.

How to move house without losing your mind

Some people move frequently, while others like to stay put. But everyone finds it stressful.

'She had nowhere to go': how new mum's life began to unravel

The birth of her first child should have been happiest of times for Campsie mother Phuong Cao, but friends say it marked the beginning of when her life began to unravel. 

Women giving birth to a son keep some of his Y chromosomes

It was an experiment doomed to failure - they were looking for male cells in female bodies. And their search was stunningly successful.

Photos: How babies fit in the womb

A gorgeous photo series shows babies in the first hours after their birth - as they were positioned in the womb.

Baby tries to persuade stubborn bulldog to walk, fails

We don't know what he's saying, but this baby has a very clear message for his bulldog pal: let's walk - NOW.

The best toddler gift ever? Nine gender-neutral play kitchen picks

Without a doubt, one of the best gifts for a toddler turning two or three is a play kitchen.

9 easy steps to improve your baby photography

With a few simple tips you can take your images from random happy snaps to lovely clean images that create beautiful lasting memories.



Can't decide?

Check out the Essential Baby Names section for some inspiration

Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.