Jump to content

Catholic orders


5 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

Can someone explain the existence of orders to me? I have thought that the Church was a universal concept to Catholics and that they don't acknowledge other denominations as being valid due to the lack of authority via history. So how are the orders explained as being distinct from other denominations? If they form their own philosophies then are they not too breakaways from The Church? Why are certain orders acknowledged and others declared to not meet vatican requirements? Are these unapproved orders then regarded as being similar to other denominations in the eyes of The Church?

Also on quite a separate topic (but similar), can anyone explain why a rational mind might agree that something is black when it appears to be white? I'm assuming that the rational mind is also the highest (and therefore the correct thinking) mind, or does this contradict reason when applied below.

QUOTE
Rule 13 of Ignatius' Rules for Thinking with the Church said: "That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity[...], if [the Church] shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."


This statement appears to be suggesting that people turn away from their own reasoning to follow external teachings. This seems to be contrary to what Jesus taught.

#2 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

*Disclaimer - I am not a Roman Catholic* (although I am an associate of a monastic order).

Orders are communities of people who live and work together, usually with a particular focus (or charism) to their life.  So, for example, some orders are known as teaching orders, or nursing or missionary or contemplative orders.  Some (such as the Salesians of St. John Bosco) might focus on youth work, or like the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa's order) in working amongst the poor, or whatever.  In this sense they're specialists within a denomination (mostly Roman Catholic, although I know of Anglican, Orthodox and Coptic orders as well).  

Although they might form their own philosophies - the Franciscans having a particular emphasis on poverty, or the Society of Jesus on spiritual discernment - Roman Catholic orders are still obliged to adhere to the order and governance of their denomination.  They are, however, often a little more free than say, regular priests, as their organisational structure can protect them from interference by local bishops.

I don't know anything about the process for a new community gaining official recognition by Rome.  But provided they still adhered to the teachings of Rome, even an unapproved community would still be seen as Catholic; its members would just not be recognised as consecrated monks or nuns.

Ah, the quote you have given is a famous one.  I am not expert in this part of Ignatius' teachings, but I would comment that this is not a teaching intended to tell Catholics to check their brains at the door, or to accept every whim of their local priest as if it is infallible.  It is, however, a warning that if there is something that the Church has always historically accepted as true, and which is accepted by all Christians, (let's say, for example, the idea that God speaks to us through Scripture), then it is dangerous for a Christian to set teaching of that kind of gravity aside, because it's easy for one person to be in error.

I hope that helps - please ask more if I've been unclear!

#3 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

Thanks Ange. So why can't people work toward their stated goals without forming an order but still remain under the Church? I mean, surely they have the same goals as the Church if they identify with it? If they are separate from Church hierarchy then are they not also separate from the Church? This is the part that doesn't make sense to me - orders appear to have formed breakaway groups with their own heirarchy.

Edited by Buy Me A Pony !, 18 March 2012 - 02:27 PM.


#4 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

Ah, okay.

Think of it like an org chart.  Ultimately, everyone's under the church's authority - but orders are off in a separate part of the org chart to, say, local priests.  So a Jesuit in Melbourne will be responsible to his local superior, then the provincial, then the overall leader of the order who will be ultimately responsible through some structure to Rome (for example, I might have the detail wrong), where the priest in the next parish will be responsible to the local bishop, then the archbishop, then the pope.  

So not breakaway groups, but ones which cross diocesan boundaries and work within different structures to enable a different kind of work practice.  As you can imagine, that's particularly important for the missionary orders, otherwise every time they crossed a diocesan boundary they'd have to renegotiate what they were doing with the bishop of that diocese.  But even for more enclosed orders, it allows them to regulate their own community life rather than be micromanaged by external parties.



#5 Mamabug

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

I have nothing to add, but am finding this really, really interesting! Carry on, please.

#6 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

lol now I get it. It's just like the public service - separate ministries with their own leadership and goals but still under the government!



Reply to this topic



  


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Wondersuit heaven: Bonds & Disney launch exclusive collection

Bonds and Disney fans with babies to buy for will be celebrating this news. Bonds and Disney have just released collaboration Wondersuits.

Town welcomes first baby in 28 years

Since the 1980s, the Italian town of Ostana had not seen the birth of a single baby.

Great-great-grandma delivers great grandchild in her own home

''I've delivered calves, lambs, dogs and cats, but nothing like this.'' This 'Super Gran' calmly peeled the amniotic sac over her great-grandson's head before discovering the umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck ... twice.

How to start teaching your kids road safety

It's something that can be taught as early as possible and reinforced as they get older and more mobile - even from toddlerhood.

Just announced: Bugaboo Cameleon³ Classic+ Collection update

Meet the brand new understated chic model from Bugaboo.

The emotional moment a mum hears her late son's heartbeat

It's been two and a half years since Heather Clark's seven-month-old son Lukas passed away.

Nine reasons why you have 'brain fog'

One minute your productivity is skyrocketing and the next you're sitting there trying to focus – just like that you draw blank, your brain, mush.

I had a caesarean and it was beautiful

Guess what? Despite not pushing him out, I cried, and my heart skipped, and I felt the rush of love and pride when I saw him for the first time.

Microcephaly still a mysterious condition around the world

For parents, having a child with microcephaly can mean a life of uncertainty.

7 baby firsts you won't see on milestone charts

Here are a few 'other' baby firsts you may not have been expecting, but you'll want to be ready for.

Why it's important to vaccinate on time

My son was born on the 1 July 2014. It's a fabulous birthday, don't you think? Not only does the first of July ring in a new financial year, but it also means we've hit the year's half way mark.

Naturopath treatment allegedly left baby "days from death"

A naturopath whose treatment of a baby boy allegedly led to the infant being severely ill has pleaded not guilty to charges against her. 

Andy Murray's emotional speech to pregnant wife after Australian Open

A teary-eyed Andy Murray promised pregnant wife Kim he'd be on the next plane home after his turbulent two weeks at the Australian Open came to an end.

This toddler and his duck BFF will melt your heart

A small boy in the US has struck up a quacking good friendship with an unlikely companion ... his pet duck. 

Great news for coffee drinkers - caffeine is good for your heart

Researchers have found that, contrary to prior belief, caffeine does not cause health-threatening heart palpitations.

I always wanted children - but I've found other ways to be maternal

I've always been one of the most maternal women I know.

When only one parent wants to know the gender

For some couples you either both want to know the gender of your unborn baby, or you don't. For others, it's not that simple.

'No jab no play' could hurt disadvantaged children, experts fear

Tough new "no jab no play" laws could hurt children who have not been immunised due to family dysfunction, poverty, or poor access to medical support, experts warn.

Zika virus: Airlines offer refunds to pregnant women

Airlines and cruise companies across the world are offering refunds or travel credits to pregnant women who are scheduled to visit countries struck by the devastating Zika virus.

#meditateonthis: Mums fight back against PND ignorance

Not all women will require medication, but many will. And there isn't and shouldn't be any shame in that.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Penny Wong

'The most hurtful argument in the marriage equality debate'

Labor frontbencher Penny Wong is used to to hearing arguments against same-sex marriage. But for Australia's most prominent gay politician, one hurts more than others.

Does exercise have to be fun to work?

Some things in life are inherently served with a big scoop of fun: balloons, bubbles, cupcakes to name but a few, but exercise?

Hair dye gives woman second-degree burns

She wanted a fresh colour for 2016, but instead she got chemical burns.

Kelly Slater saves mum and toddler from 'freak wave'

A Perth family has thanked US surfing "legend" Kelly Slater after the star saved a mother and a young toddler from "a freak wave" in Hawaii.

Apple recalls millions of power adapters

Tech giant instigates massive international recall of power point adapters due to risk of electric shock.

Toddler's adorable alphabet goes viral

It's impossible not to share this little boy's excitement  about the alphabet.

Tot's nighttime waking saves family's life

Like all tired parents, Monique and Kyle Ruppel were looking forward to the day their 15-month-old daughter Celia would start sleeping through the night. 

Australian mum gives birth to quintuplets

An Australian mum who has shared the ups and downs of carrying quintuplets has welcomed her five babies into the world.

Dad of four girls faints at gender reveal for fifth baby

It was all too much excitement for this dad.

The simple way you can help your baby's language development

The way parents respond to their child's babbling can shape how their infants communicate.

Zika virus is 'spreading explosively': WHO

The World Health Organization announced that it will convene an emergency meeting about Zika.

National database recommended for child protection cases

Baby Ebony was repeatedly failed by the agencies tasked with her protection before her horrific death at the hands of her father, South Australia's deputy coroner says.

Hospitals put babies at risk by ignoring policy on elective caesareans

Thirty-eight weeks or 39? Non-medical factors are pushing women to have elective caesareans earlier than official guidelines - and hospitals are playing along.

Police help deliver baby on busy roadside

Two police officers delivered more than a traffic fine by the side of a busy Melbourne road yesterday.

1D's Louis Tomlinson shares first photo of baby

One Direction's Louis Tomlinson has posted the first picture of his baby boy, Freddie, on social media.

 

FREE TICKET

Free first aid demonstrations daily

Get your free ticket to the Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.