Jump to content

Catholic orders


5 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

Can someone explain the existence of orders to me? I have thought that the Church was a universal concept to Catholics and that they don't acknowledge other denominations as being valid due to the lack of authority via history. So how are the orders explained as being distinct from other denominations? If they form their own philosophies then are they not too breakaways from The Church? Why are certain orders acknowledged and others declared to not meet vatican requirements? Are these unapproved orders then regarded as being similar to other denominations in the eyes of The Church?

Also on quite a separate topic (but similar), can anyone explain why a rational mind might agree that something is black when it appears to be white? I'm assuming that the rational mind is also the highest (and therefore the correct thinking) mind, or does this contradict reason when applied below.

QUOTE
Rule 13 of Ignatius' Rules for Thinking with the Church said: "That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity[...], if [the Church] shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."


This statement appears to be suggesting that people turn away from their own reasoning to follow external teachings. This seems to be contrary to what Jesus taught.

#2 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

*Disclaimer - I am not a Roman Catholic* (although I am an associate of a monastic order).

Orders are communities of people who live and work together, usually with a particular focus (or charism) to their life.  So, for example, some orders are known as teaching orders, or nursing or missionary or contemplative orders.  Some (such as the Salesians of St. John Bosco) might focus on youth work, or like the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa's order) in working amongst the poor, or whatever.  In this sense they're specialists within a denomination (mostly Roman Catholic, although I know of Anglican, Orthodox and Coptic orders as well).  

Although they might form their own philosophies - the Franciscans having a particular emphasis on poverty, or the Society of Jesus on spiritual discernment - Roman Catholic orders are still obliged to adhere to the order and governance of their denomination.  They are, however, often a little more free than say, regular priests, as their organisational structure can protect them from interference by local bishops.

I don't know anything about the process for a new community gaining official recognition by Rome.  But provided they still adhered to the teachings of Rome, even an unapproved community would still be seen as Catholic; its members would just not be recognised as consecrated monks or nuns.

Ah, the quote you have given is a famous one.  I am not expert in this part of Ignatius' teachings, but I would comment that this is not a teaching intended to tell Catholics to check their brains at the door, or to accept every whim of their local priest as if it is infallible.  It is, however, a warning that if there is something that the Church has always historically accepted as true, and which is accepted by all Christians, (let's say, for example, the idea that God speaks to us through Scripture), then it is dangerous for a Christian to set teaching of that kind of gravity aside, because it's easy for one person to be in error.

I hope that helps - please ask more if I've been unclear!

#3 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

Thanks Ange. So why can't people work toward their stated goals without forming an order but still remain under the Church? I mean, surely they have the same goals as the Church if they identify with it? If they are separate from Church hierarchy then are they not also separate from the Church? This is the part that doesn't make sense to me - orders appear to have formed breakaway groups with their own heirarchy.

Edited by Buy Me A Pony !, 18 March 2012 - 02:27 PM.


#4 Mitis angelam

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

Ah, okay.

Think of it like an org chart.  Ultimately, everyone's under the church's authority - but orders are off in a separate part of the org chart to, say, local priests.  So a Jesuit in Melbourne will be responsible to his local superior, then the provincial, then the overall leader of the order who will be ultimately responsible through some structure to Rome (for example, I might have the detail wrong), where the priest in the next parish will be responsible to the local bishop, then the archbishop, then the pope.  

So not breakaway groups, but ones which cross diocesan boundaries and work within different structures to enable a different kind of work practice.  As you can imagine, that's particularly important for the missionary orders, otherwise every time they crossed a diocesan boundary they'd have to renegotiate what they were doing with the bishop of that diocese.  But even for more enclosed orders, it allows them to regulate their own community life rather than be micromanaged by external parties.



#5 Mamabug

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

I have nothing to add, but am finding this really, really interesting! Carry on, please.

#6 Guest_Buy Me A Pony !_*

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

lol now I get it. It's just like the public service - separate ministries with their own leadership and goals but still under the government!



Reply to this topic



  


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Win a Mountain Buggy Swift

To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.

Shopping with kids: breaking the pester-power cycle

You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.

eBay jacket may hold clue to murdered girl's identity

A jacket similar to the one found with the remains of a brutally murdered little girl in South Australia has been identified on eBay.

New mum forced back to work early due to paid parental leave 'technicality'

Shelley Parker had to keep driving buses until the date her baby was due and will have to rush back to work at the end of this week after being denied paid parental leave on a "technicality".

Pregnant Amanda Palmer poses naked for book drive

It has to be the most original way ever of promoting a children's book donation day.

The conception dilemma facing many parents today

Some parents who conceived through a sperm donor will be wary of telling the child, while others prefer to deal with it early on. But recent research suggests it makes little difference either way.

The wedding photo the bridesmaid would rather forget

We've probably all seen a passed-out bridesmaid at one wedding or another, but it usually happens towards the end of the night.

Pregnant TV meteorologist takes on haters

Pregnant TV meteorologist Katie Fehlinger has hit back at haters who called her a "sausage in casing".

Honest words from first-time mums

I didn't want to say anything negative to my pregnant friend, but I wish I'd been more honest.

Adorable baby experiences rain for the first time, couldn't be happier

Harper had seen rain from the comfort of indoors before, but had never had the pleasure of being outside and experiencing it first hand.

What it's really like to start a family in your fifties

Many people suppose that it must be much more tiring to have a baby in middle age, but all the mothers in the playground look exhausted, whatever their age.

'Biggest hypocrite ever': Josh Duggar admits to Ashley Madison account

An American reality TV star has been busted with a cheating website account, according to US media.

Long recovery ahead for girl hit by car weeks after baby brother's death

A little girl is more alert and starting to talk after being hit by a car a week ago, but still faces a long recovery.

How to react when a toddler lies

Q: My almost-3-year-old is starting to figure out that he can lie when asked if he ripped the book, threw the food, hit his brother, etc. Totally normal, I know. How do we respond?

The circular experience of a Centrelink client

A mum-to-be experiences the frustration of dealing with Centrelink, myGov and everything in between.

Kelly Clarkson announces live on stage: 'I'm pregnant!'

Singer Kelly Clarkson has announced she is pregnant with her second child during a concert in Los Angeles.

Hack

How to search the leaked Ashley Madison data

At least three sites are republishing Ashley Madison's user data on the public-facing internet.

Mum dances her way through labour

There are a fair few ways to distract yourself and beat pains while in labour, but it's probably a rare woman who chooses her dance her way through it.

'Rest in peace, my little lion': premmie baby Jacob passes away

Baby Jacob, whose photo of him born at just 27 weeks was deemed 'too graphic' for a fundraising site, has died.

Mum killed three young sons 'to help her daughter', prosecutor says

Niall Pilkington's death last summer apparently raised little alarm in Bellefontaine, Ohio. Tragic accidents happen, after all.

Shorter women have shorter pregnancies: study

When a group of researchers studied nearly 3500 mothers and their babies, they noticed a curious pattern.

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

The worst 20 minutes of my life

Thirty seconds was all it took to turn a shopping trip into my worst nightmare.

Top baby names for England and Wales in 2014

George has overtaken William in the official rankings of most popular British baby names - and Game of Thrones is still having an impact on parents.

Baseball or baby? Dad's tough choice

What's more important, a baby or a baseball? That's a question this dad seems to struggle with.

Childbirth choices: five star or free?

It's not often you hear the words labour and luxury in the same sentence but for some, a 5-star start to parenthood is exactly what they seek. And with a number of private hospitals now offering packages which include a post-birth stay at a sumptuous first class resort, many mums are choosing to recover in style.

'Where did your boobies go, Mummy?' and other soul-destroying comments from kids

Most women carry a smidge of baby weight after giving birth. If you're lucky enough to have an older child in the house, they can keep you on track with your weight loss goals.

Do you read me, baby?

Is it too soon to be reading to my two-month-old son? If not, what should I read?

Minimising sibling rivalry when you've got a baby

Sibling rivalry is an act of competition, but if your children feel involved and special, this type of jealousy will be minimised.

Will studying on maternity leave take you away from your most important job?

I remember when I was trying to decide if I could combine motherhood and furthering my university education.

Win a Pacapod this Father's Day

To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW

Preschooler hit by car shortly after baby brother's death

A mother has had a frantic race to the hospital after her daughter was hit by a car, just four weeks after her infant son died.

Gay couple and Thai surrogate in custody tug-of-war

A six-month-old baby girl is trapped in the Thai capital in a bitter custody wrangle between her Thai surrogate mother and her biological father.

Couple denied IVF over parenting concerns

A mother of six has been denied access to IVF treatment in order to have another child over concerns about her parenting skills.

The book that promises to put your children to sleep

Exhausted parents from around the world are singing the praises of a "miracle" book which promises to put even the most restless child to sleep in just minutes.

5 things every parent who feels guilty needs to know

Parenthood can make you feel bad, but you're not alone.

Royals criticise 'dangerous' attempts to photograph Prince George

The British royal family criticized paparazzi on Friday for what it called their increasingly dangerous attempts to photograph young Prince George.

'No jab, no play' rule to cover Victorian kindergartens and childcare centres

"Anti-vaxxers" face not being able to send their children to childcare centres or kindergarten if they refuse to have them immunised.

15,000 birthing kits on their way to developing countries

Giving birth in a hospital surrounded by medical experts is tough enough, but some women deliver babies without a clean sheet to lie on.

Photo of premmie 'too graphic', fundraising site says

When their son Jacob was born at just 27 weeks, Christina and Jeff Hinks were thrown into an uncertain world.

The latest Bugaboo collections: cool chevron and runner prams

Bugaboo sure likes to keep things fresh, and with the Australian spring/summer season coming up, there are two new Bugaboo pram releases.

Making room for two in the bed

Mum's room or their own room? Cot or bassinets? Deciding where twins will sleep can be tricky.

 

FREE TICKET

See Hi-5 LIVE in Sydney!

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.