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Problems with Rest Time at Kindy?
Too much sleep at Kindy!


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#1 Sharonpomme

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:46 PM

Hi there,

Does anyone else have problems with their Day Care with regards to rest-time?

I have a 4 year old that does not sleep at home, and consequently we have a very easy time at night.

Then she  attends day-care, where in their defence try to keep her awake, but sometimes fail.  I then have a child who is unable to sleep until very late at night.  Often tears and causes stress, then very tired the next day.  

Then if she falls asleep, at Kindy then she is not allowed to be woken for 45 minutes.  I am told that this is according to regulations!!  My daughter is in the pre-school room.

They have to sit/lie for 2 hours on a bed and not allowed to talk!!  For goodness sakes this is so frustrating, for us parents who want our children to stay awake.  I appreciate that there are some children who need to rest, but they are in for a big shock next year when they start school.  No rest at school!!  Surely they should be weaning the kids off sleep, as part of the preparations for school.

Is it any wonder my daughter wants to sleep if she is expected to stay on her bed for 2 hours!!  

Where are these regulations?  Can anyone tell me where to find them?  We are in Qld.  I have tried but very hard.

I know there are staffing issues involved here, as they need to take breaks.

What legal compromizes can the Day Care Centre take.  The director is also very unhelpful about this matter and keeps telling me it is regulations!!!

Thank goodness my daughter is very happy at this centre and her carers are lovely.  Otherwise I would be out of there.

Let me know.



#2 No girls here

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

I had exactly the same problem with DS2.  We eventually got the day care to agree to quiet play.  If he was too noisy he had to help pat the other children to sleep. I'm in NSW so things could be different here.

At the very least could they give her some books to read quietly on the bed so she is less likely to fall asleep?

Edited by No girls here, 18 March 2012 - 01:58 PM.


#3 ally0812

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:52 PM

i would request in writing that your daughter not be given the opportunity to sleep. i dont see why she cant read quietly-draw with an adult in the room still. surely this will not disrupt tthe childern who are resting. my day care were good with this once i put my foot down and said DS is NOT TO HAVE A NAP. he now helps the carers with cleaning up- looks at books or does aa puzzle instead

#4 Sharonpomme

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:56 PM

Hi,
Yes the girls who look after my daughter are very good, they do give her books.  

She is crafty, will sneek a sleep in if they are not looking!!  So hard for them but just really wish she could be taken off her bed and sit in a chair quietly.   Told not allowed as have to be on their beds!!  

Probably different in Qld.  Just would love to check these regulations for myself!!!

Thanks



#5 KylieferalMin0gue

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:00 PM

I could have written your post OP.  I have spoken to the centre about DDs rest time and told them that I do not want her to sleep as she doesn't when she is at home, and if she does sleep at daycare, she is up till at least 10pm.  They keep assuring me that she doesn't sleep anymore during rest time, yet I ask her everyday and more often than not, DD says she has slept.  (And then she also won't sleep till late that night)

I have asked numerous times for the centre not to let her sleep, and now when I ask, the director basically tells me that DD must be lying.  Yeah whatever!!

I would have changed centres, but DD starts school in 5 weeks, so I am just biting my tongue till then.  (At this time I am also going to switch DS to another centre as I don't want the same thing happening to him in a couple of years)

#6 Farmgal

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:03 PM

I hear you! My 3.5 year old twins are also impossible to get to bed on a Friday after childcare. We dropped daytime sleeps a few months ago...they just don't need one. But they still have one at daycare and it drives me nuts. Friday nights used to be great, they were knackered after daycare, I loved it. Now it is the opposite and I loath Friday nights. I have spoken to the ladies at daycare, but they still seem to let them sleep...grrr

Good luck with your daughter!

#7 Belu

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:06 PM

The regulations have just changed for the entire child care industry making the states all come into line.  You'd be looking for the Education and Care Services National Regulation - check out the ACECQA website for a run down.

My understanding is that children need to be offered the opportunity to rest.  This means that they need a bed put out, sheets put on it and then they can be asked to lie on it.  At my centre we have at least half a dozen children who are not sleepers and their parents don't want them sleeping.  We put their beds out, and offer them the opportunity to rest on them.  We also offer them the opportunity to do quiet activities.

Two hours is rediculous, challenge your daughter's carers to lie on a bed for that long without anything to do or being able to move.


#8 Owl_Little_Girls

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

My DD was like this last year. I was also told about the 45min regulation as well, as apparently they are no allowed to wake a sleeping child before this?

I asked for DD just to have quiet time rather then be resting on a rest bed. She read quietly or did some drawing while they slept. Not a problem at all.

She also didn't have a sleep at home.

#9 Sharonpomme

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:27 PM

Thanks everyone,

I know I am not alone here.  It was on TV a while ago about sleep, Is it for the children or for the carers!!!  

I will check out the site you have given me.

I am lucky that the carers are doing their best to keep my daughter awake, within the rules that the director has told them.

Just such a shame this is made so hard for so many of us!!

#10 Caseymay

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:32 PM

Is she at an ABC centre? Sounds very much like what some of the staff used to tell parents when I worked at one.

Firstly I would challenge the director to show you these regulations in print. Not just from a centre manual either but from accreditation documents.

Next I would put it in writing that your daughter is not to sleep and hand a copy to the director and the staff of the room that your daughter is in.

If all this still fails I would be asking for the phone number of the regional manager and speak to them (if there is one).

To help your daughter could you get a few colouring in books and some crayons and pack them with her sheets? That way after she has rested quietly for 10 minutes and when most of the children who are going to sleep are already asleep she has something to keep her occupied? You really shouldn't have to do this though. Centre staff should be providing quiet activities and hopefully they will once you talk to them (again).

#11 Sharonpomme

Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

Hi,

No not ABC or one taken over,  the Director is the owner!!  Only has two centres.  She is very difficult to approach on this matter, but yes I will put it in writing that DD is not to have any sleep.

The girls do give her books and try there best to keep her awake, but DD will sneak a sleep in if they are not watching.  I even sent her to Kindy with her Leap Frog, that was not allowed as too stimulating according to the Director!!!  

I will also see if she can show me these regulations.

Thanks



#12 MAGS24

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:18 PM

I never used to mind if the Child Care could get my DS to sleep because he is always so exhaused when he comes home regardless of whether he slept at child care or not. If he had a sleep at child care, we would just get him to run and play around in the back yard for an hour or so when he got home. That made him tired enough. He is never allowed to stay up after 8pm.

#13 Sharonpomme

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

Hi,

If only that was my DD,  she has to go to bed on my work night at 7 - 7.30 and she stays in her room even if she is not tired.  Just calls out all the time, "' I'm not tired'"  often until 9 pm.   Eventually will go to sleep.  

They are all so different.  

I have found some regulations regarding sleep:  there is no mention of specific times for rest, when to wake your child after falling asleep. To quote  "Just they must take reasonable steps to ensure that the needs for sleep and rest are met, having the regard to the ages, development stages and individual needs of the children".

No mention of them being on their bed for 2 hours!!    Interesting they say"Individual needs of children"  - well mine are no sleep and not to stay on the bed for 2 hours, please.

I found this on the ACECQA site.  

So see what happens when I show these to the Director.

#14 tothebeach

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE
This means that they need a bed put out, sheets put on it and then they can be asked to lie on it.

We had a similar issue and my verbal and first written request didn't seem to be making a difference.  I wrote a second letter and they have been very helpful since then.  DS2 doesn't take any sheets with him and has no bed put out.  They have asked that we bring a special toy so that he plays quietly while the others are resting.  Some days they tell me that he is tired but still, in accordance to my wishes, they keep him awake.

Text from my letter below in case it's useful.  I emailed the letter to the centre director, and also provided a hardcopy to the room leader.  
QUOTE
As per our previous written instructions on the xx/xx, DS2 is not to sleep at daycare.    Even a short daytime sleep results in 2-3 hours of crying and a very late bedtime of 9:30-10pm.   This results in him being tired the next day with predictable consequences on a daycare day.  It is very obvious to us when he has slept at daycare – for example, it is now 9:30pm and he is still awake.

We are happy to provide books, toys or an activity bag for quiet play in lieu of him having a rest.  Please let us know what would work best for you.

As DS2 dropped his daytime sleep at home more than 12 months ago, we ask that you work with us to cater to his individual needs, as per your centre philosophy.

I have also attached an article from the Sydney Morning Herald on this issue and draw your attention, in particular, to the following paragraph:
“research showing that a nap during the day can result in poor sleep at night, which is linked to cognitive problems, behavioural difficulties and health issues such as obesity, Ms Staton said.”

We look forward to working with you to resolve this issue.

Edited by tothebeach, 18 March 2012 - 03:42 PM.


#15 Sharonpomme

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

Hi everyone,

An update since yesterday!!

Director phoned me today, I have to say if my DD was not so happy there, I would be gone.  I have been accused of negative behaviour.  I find out that the carers are stressed by my requests.  The
Director denied ever agreeing to allowing carers to wake up DD after 30 min in the KIndy room.  So I am basically lying!!

How unprofessional this was handled by her,  I am the paying customer.  I would have expected such a different approach, even an apology that she cannot remember agreeing to this 30 min sleep, "but I have to stay with the regulations this year etc etc."   Wow, if I spoke to my customers like this going  back on my word, saying as good as "you made this up!!"I would be out of business.

I am so mad, and really upset.  I am dreading taking my DD back to kindy this week now.  I feel that I am arch enemy No.1!!  

I have always spoken highly of the carers, so I am sad to hear they feel dread when I walk in the room.  

So I really have to back down now on this matter for the sake of my DD.  She loves it here.

So I will put a brave face on and run with it.  Sad really that I have been backed into a corner.  But be assured if DD becomes unhappy, we are out of there.

Sadly I will not be able recommend this Kindy so highly.  I am not the only Parent who thinks this,  shame because the carers/teacher are fantastic.  Management - need some PR training!!  



#16 Mrs Flanders

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:25 PM

Sorry you are having such trouble with your centre OP. To force preschoolers to lie in bed for two hours is ridiculous (except for the ones that still need that amount of sleep of course!)

My mum is a community-based preschool director (NSW) and from her point of view it can be hard to keep children awake when they feel/look tired and lots of other children are having a sleep. But she and her staff have bent over backwards to work out a system that suit all children, families and staff.

They have a nap area, in a darkened room for those who wish to sleep. For those who do not sleep, they are taken for some quiet time or outside play as a group, away from the sleepers so that they are not disruptive. It seems to work for everyone and really doesn't seem that hard. Not sure why other centres can't do this.

Funnily enough, when we were visiting my parents at the start of this term, my daughter went for a day to Grandma's preschool. She was in the process of giving up her day sleep and I really preferred her not to sleep. But she said she wanted to, so Mum let her have a sleep for 45 mins. Well, Grandma got to see the result of that nap when my DD took 2 hours to go to sleep that night! Although she's always respected parents wishes, I think it was good for Mum to see it from the parent's point of view, to reiterate why parents ask for their kids NOT to sleep at kindy!

ETA - at my daughter's own preschool, they don't have nap time at all but just ensure some quiet time (eg group story time) for those who need a rest. Some will fall asleep on the beanbags, while others won't. It seems to work for everyone.

Edited by Mrs Flanders, 19 March 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#17 Sharonpomme

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

Thanks, for reply

Well one point has been cleared up DD does not need to stay on her mat for 2 hours.  The Director said that is not the case, so that is good, can sit quietly read etc.  So that is better.

I am also aware that DD needs to know that she has to be quiet and slow down for a period.  That is a valuable lesson for her to know before starting school.  

Not going to get to bottom of when is it legally ok to wake a child after falling asleep.

See what happens.  



#18 theb3an

Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:50 AM

wow, that's crazy.  my dd is in preschool and while some of the kids nap, some don't so they're allowed to bring books to their cot but must be quiet for 2hrs while the other kids sleep.  the teachers are very understanding and know that lying in bed for 2hrs for an awake toddler is quite impossible!

can you ask if your child can play quietly while the other kids sleep?





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