December Mums chat
, Dec 08 2011 01:20 PM
521 replies to this topic
Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:00 PM
Oh my gosh, there is a Due December 2012 thread now in recent topics. Has it seriously been a year since we all found out we were pregnant?!?!? Time flies.
Gosh that is scary! Doesn't seem like it was that long ago that I was addicted to POAS
Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:06 PM
Edited by katevin, 29 March 2012 - 07:51 PM.
Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:00 PM
I looooved POAS!! He he heDeejie
I feel your pain- tho to be fair Lukey doesn't normally start the hourly wake ups overnight until 230am, and he does have one big nap during the day. And he's a cheerful soul so its obviously enough for him. Hope things improve for us both shortly. Keep telling myself the 4 month regression can't last forever......Bec
- are you feeling any better today?? Eugh, gastro is just the worst. Hope no one else in your house gets it.
OK, so cos I've hit fast reply I can't see the other posts.... sorry- Hi everyone!!
AFU. Hmmm. Bad night last night. Lukey went down at 7, was up at 9, 11,2.30 until 4.30 then 5.30 and DD was up at 6.15. Of course after two hours of pacing up and down with my now 9 KILO poombah my muscles are just sooo tired, even though I had more than 6 hours sleep in total.
. I'm pretty sure his first little teeth are on the way, I can see them under his gums and he's chewing and drooling up a storm. Not really upset by it, just a bit irritable, and wanting to be carried. Did I mention he's now 9.2 kilos?? Had to buy myself a new fitball this week so I can do some back exercises otherwise I'm not going to cope. He's just such a little cherub though, and he makes people go all cooey and mushy whenever I take him out, he's just so chubby and smiley and has that exp
ression of pure adoration. So cute. DD is being a little... challenging .. this week- she's picked up some lovely new assertive behaviours from kindy and we have to negotiate everything... but still all in all she's done so well with the changes, and she loves her little brother to bits.
OK, DD demanding a turn on the computer, I'm getting a lecture on sharing and taking turns
Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:17 PM
Quick one from me. Finally starting to feel better! Just need a decent nights sleep
Was a very nasty bug this time. Kids showing no signs so fingers crossed all that hand sanitiser and disinfectant spray I used did it's job!! http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa470/...84/IMG_8437.jpg
Wanted to post a pic of Declan - such a snuggly little man. So hard to believe this time last year we were moaning about morning sickness/tiredness etc.
Hope everyone has a good weekend! I'm missing Freo's first home game toninght
Didn't want to be starting to get better and wipe myself out again (I find I'm knackered if I try and do too much). DH is going instead.
Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:50 PM
Quick one from me too... Seems like we all have little free time at the moment
My brain doesn't work at the moment, so can someone remind me what POA's are. I'm sure I was addicted to them too Deejie
- feeling for you love... Sleep deprivation is just a killer. Aidan sleeps very little during the day too (maybe two 30 minute naps and one 60 minute if I'm lucky). He makes up for it by sleeping well at night though, so I can't complain too much. I really hope Tweddle works wonders for you!Bec_M
- glad to hear you're feeling a little better. Gastro really knocks you around! Bummer about not being able to go to the game... That picture is sooo cute! I can't believe how big our babies are already - you can already tell that Declan has his own little personality
My neighbour just had a baby last weekend and Aidan looks so big compared to him!Leita
- your biceps must be enormous! Lol
Aidan is only 6 kilos and my back gets pretty sore by the end of the day, so I imagine doing some fitball exercises will be really good for you.AFU
- DH away on a boys weekend and I am struggling a bit with a really sore wisdom tooth as well as possible nipple thrush which is making it very difficult to feed. After about 2 minutes the pain is so excruciating, I have to detach him, which is making him a very grumpy boy... Can't get a doctors appointment until Tuesday so I don't really know what to do over the next few days. I'm contemplating trying a couple of formula feeds just to have a little break from breast-feeding and to make sure he is getting enough to eat. I would express but have difficulty with getting much milk out when I do because I haven't practiced enough (have to hand express because electric and hand pumps cause too much pain too). Anyone else had this problem and have any advice?
Need to go to bed. Pretty exhausted after being on my own for the last two days... (Oh poor me
Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:55 AM
- I had nipple thrush and OMG the pain! I was almost in tears every time I fed! I went to the chemist and got Nilstat. It's an oral medication (over the counter) but they told me I could put it straight on my nipple and give some to bub orally (in case he had it in his mouth). And I basically exposed my nipple to air whenever I could. Cleared up pretty quick so I hope it does for you too. I know how much it can hurt. Mine felt like razor blades. Every time he sucked. Ugh. Try and get to the chemist asap and see what they say. That's what worked for me though.
Best of luck
ETA - keep using for about 24hours on your nipple after the pain is gone to make sure the thrush is gone. I made this mistake and it came back! Also, my nipple stuck to my bra so just be careful about that too!
Edited by Bec_M, 01 April 2012 - 09:57 AM.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:05 AM
Can I join in your group? I had my little guy Lucius on 3 December and would love to have some other ladies to chat to.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:24 AM
wow, 9kg! What a beautiful, big boy! Was DD big when she was a baby too? We had Maya weighed the other day- she's 6.41kg! As someone else said, I get tired carrying her around... no wonder you're in pain!
Hope your nights have been a little better since you last posted?Bec
that's great that you're finally on the mend! And good work for keeping the kids from getting it!
Oh that is such an adorable picture of your happy little man
he he, POAS = Peeing On A Stick (a pregnancy test, in other words
) I remember Leita and I were serious addicts when we first found out we were pregnant!
Ouch, nipple thrush sounds awful
Is it any better today? Hope you're able to get something soon to clear it up. And hope your wisdom tooth settles down soon too, dental pain is yukky. No wonder you're feeling all 'woe is me'! mum201
Of course you can join in! Everyone is welcome
Congrats on your little fella, Lucius is a gorgeous name. Do you have any other kids or is he your first?
I've got 2 little girls- Maya (who was born the day before Lucias, so will be 4 months old tomorrow) and Elle, 4yo. Life with 2 kids is very busy but I'm gradually getting the hang of it!
Anyway Maya has woken up on the wrong side of the bed (cot!) this morning and is currently being a little grumpy bum in her bouncer so had better rescue her. She's trying to get anything and everything into her mouth but isn't quite as coordinated as she'd like to be, which leads to much frustration
Hope everyone is having a good weekend
Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:22 AM
OMG i wish someone had told Nate daylight saving was finished... we have been up since 4am
Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:26 AM
OMG i wish someone had told Nate daylight saving was finished... we have been up since 4am
Oh no, you poor things! Hopefully he adjusts to the new time over the next couple of days
Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:31 AM
- thanks so much!!! Went to the chemist yesterday afternoon and got some cream for me and oral gel for Aidan. The pharmacist said it should start to feel a lot better by this afternoon. Fingers crossed! And you're right - it is so painful. Razor blades is a good description...
Looking forward to getting to know you and hearing all about little Lucius. How's he been so far?katevin
- Haha, thanks for the clarification about POAS.
Aidan is getting really frustrated about not being able to get both hands in his mouth at the same time. He seems to get upset but keeps persisting nonetheless. Reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Bart gets shocked every time he tries to get the cupcake - you know the one? Hope Maya's day gets better, and that she gets more co-ordinated soon
Jacki - if he gets the message could he pass it on to Aidan? My little cherub was up and ready to party WAY too early too! Hope he has some good naps for you today to make up for it!
Alright, better go get dressed. Going out for coffee then on to gymbaroo. Busy day, lol
Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:48 AM
Hello lovely ladies, thank so much for your updates and pictures!
We have had a super cranky boy the last three days. I think he has just gotten too tired in the afternoon, then wont go down for his sleep and screams for the next two hours until we finally get him down for his night time sleep.
I'm guessing it is a combination of things - perhaps a bit too aware of surroundings now and wont drop off for his nap when we are out, then the over tiredness - on Saturday he was in the car seat in the afternon and on Sunday he was in the pram, both places normally ideal for dropping off???
Other people are suggesting teething - teeth moving down. I'm not sure about that, its only in the afternoon when we have a problem. Night time and morning are ok. We have one of those amber neacklaces we could start trying?
I've read a little bit about 4 month sleep regression but it doesn't sound like it affects afternoon only?
I guess I'm just a bit sensitive about it as we are off to Perth on Thursday for 10 days. We have the two long flights to contend with plus trying to holiday and have a good time (that scream is glass shattering!).
Any suggestions for us?
Also, anyone Sydney based have good tips on getting cabs to and from Sydney airport with car seats?
Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:23 AM
Oh dear, nipple thrush clearing up, but today Aidan has decided to refuse the breast. He slept all night 9pm-6.15am (woo hoo!) but then woke up this morning in a grumbly mood and not wanting food. He went back to sleep after 30 minutes and is still asleep... It's so hard not knowing what's going on for him. Does anyone have any ideas? Is he sick?
Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:31 PM
hiya! typing one handed so please excuse the lack of punctuation!Toddsy
- how did Aiden wake?? sounds a bit unusual....maybe the nilstat didn't agree with him. hope he's feeding again now.clrw-
we book an extra seat on the flight and take our own car seat... mind you those were international flights and dd was too big for the plane bassinette thingy. Al i can suggest is be sure to take your baby carrier for pacing up and down the aisle, and have dp ready with the boobs out for take off and landing.jacki:)
for once i'm glad we don't have daylight savingsKate
- hiya! how is miss maya today? yes, dd was on the 97th percentile at this age, but lukey is off the chart!! she's back to normal range now tho. i just have full cream milk! Mum 201
- hiya! welcome to the group Bec-M
- what a gorgeous little man you have there! love the cheeky grin!
- well, we finally moved Lukey into his own room on the weekend-
and the last two nights have seen some really good sleeps from him, so I'm hoping this is a new trend
Last night he slept from 815 until 3am!! which is the best sleep ever from him, and even i managed a 5 hour block so I feel like a new woman today... though he did of course wake hourly from 330 onward, and DD got up at 5 wanting a cuddle just for good measure, so perhaps not an entirely new woman.. but one with renewed hope!! his little room is just so cute any baby-ish, wish we could have set it up sooner, but it doesn't have aircon yet, so it was best to wait. BIL and his girlfriend arrive tonight from holland, so that will be nice, I think... they are staying with us the first two nights I think, but then going off travelling around a bit. Hoping they will stay until friday night- its our wedding anniversary of Friday, and it would be awesome to be able to go out for dinner, or even a coffee without the kids- something we've not been able to do just yet.
Solids having mixed results- lukey loves banana, will tolerate apple, but hates pumpkin :-) OK, got to go do some more cleaning before they arrive! ;-)
Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:28 AM
Definitely teething here. It is hideous. Anyone else?
Solved the taxi with car seat issue and are parking at the airport - Sydney Long Term Domestic parking has a sale on at the moment 7-15 days for $95 which is 50% off. Nice to know the car will be waiting upon our return.
Wish us luck with a teething baby on a 5 hour flight!
Edited by clrw, 05 April 2012 - 08:28 AM.
Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:20 AM
- how did the flight go with Tobey? And yes, I'd say definitely teething here as well. Not much fun is it?! Poor little man, hard seeing them suffer.Sheri
- has everything settled down for you now? Is Aidan feeding ok again?Leita
- how was the visit from your BIL? Did you manage to go out for your anniversary? So sad when they go into their own room isn't it? Declan sleeps much better in his own room though.
AFU - finally recovered from gastro (which took a week!) and then came down with mastitis
But that is clearing up and we are still feeding ok. Hurt like all hell but we managed. So hopefully that's me done with being sick for a while now!
DS is good. Definitely teething I would say. Really grinding his gums poor little man. Hopefully they pop through soon or stop giving him grief.
How is everyones Easter going? We have been pretty busy with something on every day of the long weekend. Will really get into things like easter egg hunts etc next year when DD is a bit older. Until then she only gets one small egg. She did get given a few choccies (as well as things like pj's!
) but I think DH and I will eat them on her behalf
FIL even sent Declan a bunny saying he could have a little taste. Umm....at 4 months old, I don't think so
Hope everyone is having a good one!
Edited by Bec_M, 09 April 2012 - 11:21 AM.
Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:22 AM
Happy belated Easter! Hope you all had a lovely long weekend and consumed ridiculous amounts of chocolate
how's Aidan doing now? Hope he was just having a sleepy day the other day and didn't turn out to be sick or anything! That was a huge sleep he did, you'd think he would wake up ravenous!Leita
how's Lucas travelling in his own room? Still putting in some good stretches at night? Did you manage to get out kid-free for your anniversary? Happy anniversary by the way... how many years was it?clrw
How'd the flight go?? Hope the little man behaved for you. And yep, it appears we are having teething issues here too
Such fun! DD1 cut her first tooth when she was just over 4 months old so am expecting the same for Maya but can't see anything when I check out her gums. Maybe she's just fussy because of this never ending Wonder Week...Bec
Maya has been doing the gum grinding thing too... on my nipple!!
She doesn't do it hard enough to hurt too much but I can't say it's a pleasant sensation!
Great to hear you're over your gastro and mastitis... I think you've definitely had your fair share of illnesses for awhile now. Touch wood AFU
Meant to be having Maya's 4 month needles today but the doctor called before and said they may not be able to do it as their stock hasn't been replenished due to the Easter break or something, and they've only got 1 lot left that they'll be using for a 6 week old who's booked in before Maya. Annoying! I really just want to get it over with!
Maya has been a bit unsettled the past few days or so. Catnapping during the day more than usual. Had a good night last night (slept 8 til 7.45, waking for a feed at 3.15 only) so fingers crossed she's turning a corner. She has been a lot more vocal the past day or 2 and is also suddenly a lot better on her tummy- can lift her head and chest quite high now. Is also doing this funny wriggling thing with her arms and legs that I assume is her attempting to crawl
So cute watching her evolve!
Hope everyone is well
Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:20 PM
Hey ladies - oh my goodness...life in the new baby vortex! Where doe the time go??
So the nappy free thing has been awesome, should have gone pedal to the metal ages ago. She is really good now and usually does a little cry when she needs to go. My DH always misses it though - even when I tell him - LOL - having lots of fun laughing at him.
Think we have a mild cold today. She seems a bit grizzly but is coping pretty well her first little sickness. She s dribbling everywhere and getting some relief from teethers, so we popped the amber necklace on - aren't they fantastic!
Kate, isn't it amazing how they just suddenly start doing things? And talking more and more...she is nothing short of hilarious. She has been copying Nana who has been here for a while and the other day said, yeah yeah yeah, just after my DH said something - perfectly timed and we were in stitches...she looked quite bemused so I'm quite sure she had no idea what she'd said:-)
Deejie, you poor thing. Sounds just awful. We have to head down to Melbourne soon to see the rellies, where are you guys now, we should have a coffee ( or maybe I can bring you one, you poor thing!)
Bec, you sounds like you are just in the wars. Hope you feel better soon!
She is asleep on my la at the moment, hard to type but since she isn't well best not wake her poor little love, besides she's quite cute with her hands on my tummy. Two prospective tenants through today and tomorrow so hopefully we will be moving north soon - I'm freezing!
Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:17 PM
Hope everyone had a great Easter
have a cute pic to post, but dh is on nights all week so I haven't been able to get near the computer (which is now in our room where dh is sleeping) have been reading on the new iPad but it's so slow for typing on
So a quick me post, will bbl for personals when I can type properly
We made it out for dinner last week - our ninth wedding anniversary. Was the first time we'd been out alone since lukey was born. We only lasted a hour and a half but it was lovely . Part two of the anniversary celebration is we are attempting our first weekend away with the munchkins this weekend.just a little beach house at Preston point. It is only an hour away, and nothing fancy, but that way we won't feel bad if it's a disaster and we have tou go home!
We had BIL and his GF staying last week - we had to laugh at how much time they spend eating, and getting ready... Hahaha, all those things we used to do before kids. Was a pain to not have our living room until they woke each morning (DH usually takes dd and ds down to watch tv if they get up early so I can catch up on some sleep) but dd in particular loved having them.
Lukey is doing quite well with his sleeps, last night he only woke at 930 130 and 430 when I took him to my bed for some more snoozes. Getting two three hour blocks of sleep and then some more snoozing feels like such a luxury
. He's really fighting his day sleeps though - anyone else's finding this? He is quite enjoying his food now, tho still only doing one small meal a day.
Anyhow, time to wake up dh and head to bed myself. Hope everyone has a good night :-)
Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:52 PM
Hi, just very quickly as we are just back from holiday. Little boy was an angel on the flights. We were upgraded to business on the way over (was AWESOME!). We got the bassinet and he slept for about 4 hours. On the way home today we got the bassinet again and he slept about 2 and a half hours.... So good!
Definitely teething. We have had the full gamate of symptoms, fever, diarrhea, drooling, red cheeks etc. It seems like we are getting a top and bottom one at the same time. He was still really good while were away. We used nurofen and bonjela when he got grizzly.
Hope everyone had a great Easter.
Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:40 PM
OK finally back! Where is everyone?! I hope you are all busy enjoying your bubbies... not busy pacing up and down with the lovely 19 week wonder week in progress clrw
-yay- sounds like Tobey was a perfect little traveller- well done! Teething sucks, there's no two ways about it. Lukey is chewing heaps, but I don't think the teeth are very close, as he's not grumpy at all
so far anyway. Are you planning to come back to WA again soon? We should have a WA catch up next time you do :-)Pandora's box
- have your sniffles all cleared up now? Now I have to ask, what is the idea behind a pants off day?? We will do a few minutes at a time to air out the skin... just curious. :-)Katevin
- totally mixed bag with Lukey's sleep. He had a great week... but is now in the middle of a crap week. Sleeps change from night to night...still
did you manage to get Maya's vax done in the end? Hope you didn't have to postpone too long. Are your night sleeps still going well??Bec-M
, any sign of Declans teeth yet?? Yep, easter was great, we had to hide and find her eggs over and over again, it was a great game... ALL WEEK!! he he he.AFU
well, we attempted a weekend away with BIL and GF, down at Preston Beach. Unfortunately the two King rooms we booked turned into one King and one... with two sets of bunk beds, which was of course the downstairs one which we had to use. So we had the mattresses and pillows stacked across the floor to make one giant higgledy piggledy bed for the 4 of us (DH, Me, DD and DS that is, not BIL and GF!!) and I swear I only got about 2 hours sleep. That and there was absolutely nothing to do, meant we ended up coming home after only one night= bil stayed on for the second, but I figured we should quit while we were ahead. He he he. Logistics aside, the kids were actually really good, so we'll try something similar again soon... just not at that place!!
Now, that easter pic I promised...
Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:38 PM
- that is an incredibly cute pic!! Love it
Sorry your weekend away didn't turn out as planned. We went there with work one weekend and it was lots of fun. Probably helped having a big group though. At least you got to go out for dinner just the 2 of you. I thought I saw a tooth coming through the other day but it changed its mind and went away again. And Declan has settled down again so I guess they aren't bothering him as much. Kate
- how is Maya doing? How was she after her needles? Declan had his last week. Seemed ok after. Was chatting and squealing away like it hadn't happened (after and BF
- glad to hear Tobey was such a champ on the flights! Hope you had a nice trip!
AFU - Declan had his needles last week. Seemed to go ok and he didn't show any ill effects. I forgot to tell you that he rolled about a week before he was 4 months! From back to front the clever little boy. Hasn't rolled the other way yet but I've seen him trying. Very proud of him. He is waking quite frequently at night sometimes and I think he may be ready for some solids or a bit more milk soon. He was very interested in DD's breakfast today! And he is quite a big boy - 75th percentile for both weight and length at the moment. Anyone else started food yet (apart from you Leita
Anyway, that's about all for now. I've still got some on going health issues I'm trying to sort out - apparantly it looks like I have Colitis. I have been in quite a lot of pain since I had what I thought was gastro. Anyway, on antibiotics to see if we can sort it out otherwise will have to explore other options. Explains why I am in so much pain at least! Fingers crossed it all gets sorted out soon.
Hope everyone is well
Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:23 PM
Also had immunisations and seemed ok except for temperature but have had that ongoing with his teeth so not sure whats to blame.
You have a big boy??? Our "little" baby is in the 97th percentile for weight and 95th percentile for length... big growth spurt!
We are considering solids but might string it out a big longer given his rolls already - maybe just another month as he has great head control and seems interested in our food.
Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:16 PM
- that's great considering a few months ago he wasn't putting on much weight when he was newborn. Sounds like he will be tall as well! I guess I'm just surprised as DD was so little for so long (like 25th percentile hehe)
She still is a shortie. I'm not ready to start food - that means they are really growing up and I want to hold onto my baby for a little longer!
Edited by Bec_M, 19 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.
Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:57 PM
Hi everyone! Sorry I've been MIA lately- have turned the computer on so many times recently, intending to post, but never seem to have the time to actually do it! So am making time now Bec
I'm not ready to start food - that means they are really growing up and I want to hold onto my baby for a little longer!
That is so true! I can't believe how fast time is going second time around! I remember it going pretty quickly with DD1 too but nothing like this. I am loving watching Maya grow and develop her own little unique personality but can't really get my head around how quickly it's happening.
What's Colitis (if you don't mind me asking!)? I hope you're feeling okay?!
Maya was great after her needles, thanks for asking
The nurse rattled a toy in her face straight after the second needle and she pretty much stopped crying immediately! She was a tiny bit drowsy for a day or two after but that was all that I noticed as far as side effects go thankfully.clrw
wow go Tobey on the weight gain! Hard to believe he was struggling early days I'm sure! DP must be doing a great job with her feeding.
P.S.- Teething definitely sucks. One of the things I was least looking forward to about having another baby! Can't believe we possibly have another 2 years of teething fun and games to look forward to Leita
that photo is divine, thanks for sharing! He's such a cutie! Sorry to hear your weekend away was a bit of a fizzer.
Maya still doing pretty well of a night. Generally wakes once or twice for a feed then straight back down. Last night she slept from 7.30pm-7am with one wake-up at 2.45am. Pretty happy with that. If only it were like that every night! Her days have been very up and down though the last few days, one moment she's having grizzly 30 minute catnaps and then the next she's sleeping for 3 hours! Random. How's Lucas going? Still a mixed bag? Love to keep us guessing don't they!?Pandorasbox
How's your little lady? Did she end up with a cold as you suspected? Hope she wasn't too miserable with it.
Any closer to your move to Byron?AFU
- Life seems to be extremely busy at the moment! DD1 back at kindy after school holidays and loving it. She had a lot of pent up energy to burn!
Maya is doing well, growing bigger every day- literally! She seems to be doing something new daily these days! Took her for a hip ultrasound this morning- she has uneven thigh creases so the health nurse and my doctor thought it'd be best to have a scan to be on the safe side. Anyway as it turns out her hips are perfect... she just has one leg that's chubbier than the other
Anyway I'm so tired I can barely keep my eyes open so the sensible thing would be to go to bed. Before I know it I'll be back on the couch in my feeding position
Hope everyone has a great weekend
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Of all the advice people told me before having a baby, no one warned me about the amount of decisions involved.
Parents of toddlers all know the moment when realise your child is being suspiciously quiet. It can only mean one thing - trouble!
If you have trouble recalling the ages of Jeremy Ryan's seven children on The Voice, you're not alone. So does he.
Getting glasses can be a formative moment in a person's life.
When a mum of six was caught shoplifting nappies, clothes and shoes for her kids, the last thing she expected was for a stranger to pay for her haul.
The risk of having uncontrolled depression is far greater than the small increased risk of birth defects that may be associated with specific antidepressants.
Police have raided properties and arrested a number of people over a brawl at a child's birthday party at a play centre in Sydney's west.
Looking for a creative way to share some big news? Look to the skies, like this family did.
Little Owen DiCandilo's name means "young warrior", and it's a description that perfectly fits the inspiring 18-month-old
The exhaustion that comes with caring for young children often means romance between parents becomes a thing of the past.
I've been fat for pretty much most of life, besides a few crazy moments of being less-fat, but for the most part I've existed on this earth with a little more meat on my bones than desirable.
Since the dawn of civilisation, generation after generation of new parents have had to rely on instinct, trial and error - and sometimes get it wrong.
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