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Mem Fox's Husband Guilty
Of Child Abuse


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#26 BetteBoop

Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE (tenar @ 08/07/2011, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fox has been convicted as a predator.  True (but only since today).  We have to hope that the judgement is correct and I do have faith in our legal system to get this kind of thing right.

But stop now and imagine that it was your partner who was accused of this and who denied the allegations.  Are all you posters who express disgust in Mem's behaviour really saying that you would believe the word of a teenager over the word of your husband/partner every time, even if it was something as important (not to mention revolting and criminal) as this?   What if you believed your partner incapable of such an act?  

I know that I would believe in my husband first, not his accuser.  It would probably take a lot of convincing for me to think otherwise.  I trust my husband: most people do trust their partner.  It's not like she caught them "in the act" - maybe she has no evidence either way and maybe she has not heard the teenager's story in person before this trial.  

I feel very sorry for the victim of the crime and also for Mem Fox, whose name is getting dragged into the mud over this thing that she had no involvement in and in which she is doing what most of us would do: trusting and supporting her spouse.  If her husband had been found innocent would you have thought that her supportive actions were wrong then, or is it that you people have a problem with the idea that she might not have known he was guilty?


No, I wouldn't automatically assume my husband was guilty. I wouldn't be married to a man if I believed he would do such a thing. But nor would I blindly accept his version of events if there was an allegation.

I would make up my own mind based on the allegations and the evidence.

In this case, there was evidence like letters and the boy giving details about Fox's penis being uncirced. It would be hard to dismiss the claims on that basis.

And even if my DH was found not guilty (which in a sex crime case is not the same as innocent as the overwhelming majority of rapists don't spend a single day in prison) if the evidence was compelling, it would be enough.

I love my husband but that love has boundaries. Some acts can't be ignored or forgiven.

#27 GWTW

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:34 PM

rolleyes.gif
Why can't there just be one thread on EB about convicted sex offenders that doesn't garner some kind of support or lessening of the crime?
It sickens me how quickly some people are to jump in to support of people who have been found guilty of sexual crimes.

#28 *CalamityJane*

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:42 PM

I was equally as appalled at the news tonight referring to the abuse as an "affair".  What Fox did was abuse pure and simple.  It's disgusting that the media would dress it up as anything less than that just because he is married to a prominent person.

#29 EsmeLennox

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:44 PM

QUOTE
Reading that in SA the age of consent is higher if the older party is on a position of authority, I think that is a good law.


That is the case in every state of Australia I believe.

No one is lessening the crime ZS, what Fox did was wrong regardless of circumstance, but life is not black and white. There are shades of grey, and I'll bet there are in this case - but that in no way means that Fox's actions were not morally and legally wrong. He held the position of power and he should not have acted as he did.

Mem herself hasn't committed any crime at all - but people are being very quick to judge her actions when no one here really knows the full story. She may have very good reason to believe her husband for all we know.

I find it interesting that people think that a 17 year old couldn't be involved in an affair and then realise later that they were actually being taken advantage of. I suspect this is the case.

Edited by Jemstar, 08 July 2011 - 11:46 PM.


#30 CocobeanLillylove

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 09/07/2011, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is the case in every state of Australia I believe.

No one is lessening the crime ZS, what Fox did was wrong regardless of circumstance, but life is not black and white. There are shades of grey, and I'll bet there are in this case - but that in no way means that Fox's actions were not morally and legally wrong. He held the position of power and he should not have acted as he did.

Mem herself hasn't committed any crime at all - but people are being very quick to judge her actions when no one here really knows the full story. She may have very good reason to believe her husband for all we know.

I find it interesting that people think that a 17 year old couldn't be involved in an affair and then realise later that they were actually being taken advantage of. I suspect this is the case.



Yes I don't think anyone has come out in defense of Mr Fox - just in defense of Mem.

#31 She-Ra

Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:57 PM

QUOTE
I do have faith in our legal system to get this kind of thing right.

As a layperson, you would want to think that the justice system was fair, but the more you look into it, its a bizarre manifestation of fair.

I'm sure that there is many layers to this story.

#32 ikeaqueen

Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:06 AM

This part
QUOTE
Fox walked with his arm around his wife outside court and made kissing gestures at each other in front of news cameras.

makes me want to go throw out all the Mem Fox books we own.

Disgusting.

#33 purplekitty

Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:27 AM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 08/07/2011, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find it interesting that people think that a 17 year old couldn't be involved in an affair and then realise later that they were actually being taken advantage of. I suspect this is the case.

I don't see what difference this makes to the morality or legality of the situation even if it were true.





#34 EsmeLennox

Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:33 AM

It doesn't make a difference, I just think it's interesting that people are calling a 17 year old a child,a nd would not be involved in an affair (not neccessarily with just this case - but in any situation).  IME, 17 year olds are not children (except in the legal sense of the word).

Again, though, just for the record - what Fox did was wrong and he deserves punishment.

#35 Sweet like a lemon

Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:07 AM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 09/07/2011, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It doesn't make a difference, I just think it's interesting that people are calling a 17 year old a child,a nd would not be involved in an affair (not neccessarily with just this case - but in any situation).  IME, 17 year olds are not children (except in the legal sense of the word).

Again, though, just for the record - what Fox did was wrong and he deserves punishment.


I agree and not to take from the seriousness of child molestation, but I don't see the individual as a child and if it was consensual... If Fox was a plumber or IT technician or pretty much anything other than a teacher it would not have gone court. If the individual was a few months older (not years) it would not have gone to court.

#36 purplekitty

Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE (ForsakenTruth @ 09/07/2011, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree and not to take from the seriousness of child molestation, but I don't see the individual as a child and if it was consensual... If Fox was a plumber or IT technician or pretty much anything other than a teacher it would not have gone court. If the individual was a few months older (not years) it would not have gone to court.

As a teacher he is in a position of authority,unlike a plumber and an IT technician.

Fox surely knew he was in the wrong even though the boy had left school.



#37 Sweet like a lemon

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (purplekitty @ 09/07/2011, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a teacher he is in a position of authority,unlike a plumber and an IT technician.

Fox surely knew he was in the wrong even though the boy had left school.


I don't argue that he is morally wrong even though it was consensual, but I don't think a 17 yo is a child.

#38 Meelamay

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:23 AM

He is not just Mem Fox's father, he is Chloe Fox (a SA MP) father.

This just brings too many shades of the Family back to the fore here.

#39 NewcastleMumof5

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE
This part
QUOTE
Fox walked with his arm around his wife outside court and made kissing gestures at each other in front of news cameras.

makes me want to go throw out all the Mem Fox books we own.

Disgusting.


+1  sick.gif

What a twisted story. I very much doubt any innocence on her husbands part, why on Earth would someone drag a 30 year old event through court if it wasn't true? Any which way the dirty old man had relations with a teenage boy. Wrong, wrong, wrong.



#40 baddmammajamma

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:33 AM

Take 2 minutes to read the account of the court room exchange from June:

http://www.news.com.au/malcolm-fox-denies-...u-1226072428584

Honestly, if that were YOUR husband, would you believe that:

* A 17 year old boy -- former student and victim of sexual abuse -- would FORCE himself on your husband -- an adult in a position of trust and authority -- not just once, but multiple times?

* Your husband -- as disgusted and embarrassed as he supposedly was -- wouldn't have told YOU what happened at the time it happened? Especially given the sensitivity around potential claims of abuse?!  If my husband had been innocent, I would have expected him to have told me when the first event occurred, if for no other reason than corroboration.

* A telegram reading "Pat pat, stroke stroke, hug hug" (after the sexual encounters occurred) was merely "a congratulatory" message on the boy's year 12 results?

Yeah, right.

Mem Fox is delusional and hypocritical, and her books are already in the trash. Malcom Fox is a pervent and a criminal.

Edited by baddmammajamma, 09 July 2011 - 08:43 AM.


#41 aluminium

Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:03 AM

Yes, child abuse is bad and Mem's actions in supporting her convicted husband seem wrong but I don't understand why you would throw her book out?

The books were written before any of this came to light. They don't reflect a view that child abuse is ok...



#42 Maple Leaf

Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:10 AM

Will be interesting to see what kind of sentence he gets.

Suspended perhaps?

What a joke.

#43 BetteBoop

Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:33 AM

Agree ZS. Every thread of this kind comes with a backing track of "perhaps there is more to the story" or "there are shades of grey".

They both seem to imply the kid is lying or the bloke involved might be less guilty than we realise.

Every story, no matter the evidence, the chorus of support for the bloke is the same. It's equal parts depressing and vile.

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 09/07/2011, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It doesn't make a difference, I just think it's interesting that people are calling a 17 year old a child,a nd would not be involved in an affair (not neccessarily with just this case - but in any situation).  IME, 17 year olds are not children (except in the legal sense of the word).


Maybe you - and clearly Fox - don't consider 17 year olds children. However, the rest of society does so that's simply tough lucky I'm afraid. You live by the laws of our society.

I'm still struggling to see the "shades of grey" that you're referring to. Whether the abused child agreed to sex with a teacher is utterly irrelevant to the lawfulness of Fox's actions. It was illegal to have sex with a kid in his care, not to mention morally repugnant and Fox knew it. He chose to do it anyway.

You know, like if you hold up a bank. Arguing that the bank really wanted it doesn't detract from the illegality of robbing it. This defence only works in sexual assault cases.

QUOTE (ForsakenTruth @ 09/07/2011, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree and not to take from the seriousness of child molestation, but I don't see the individual as a child and if it was consensual... If Fox was a plumber or IT technician or pretty much anything other than a teacher it would not have gone court. If the individual was a few months older (not years) it would not have gone to court.


Such is the tyrrany of authority. People want it, but don't want the responsibility that comes with it.

They want the ability to influence young minds but none of the higher scrutiny that comes when they do that for their own purposes or with malicious intent.

Sorry, but I don't care. If Fox was a plumber he wouldn't have authority over kids. Isn't this distinction obvious?

#44 ~Sorceress~

Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:46 AM

That telegram is pretty damning ... unless Fox could produce other students who thought that was normal and some sort of in-class joke? sick.gif

And relations between a married 36yo and a 17yo youth are just never acceptable. But Fox denies any sexual contact.

But I do think 17yos are a grey area between adulthood and the age of consent, and it probably isn't that simple.

As to how the student knew Fox was uncircumsized, don't all blokes pee in public as a matter of course?  

At any rate, a jury in possession of the necessary facts found him guilty. But from the facts given I can also see that his wife might believe otherwise.

#45 LittleDCJ

Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:59 AM

Does anyone know if the 17yo pressed charges against the first person that sexually assualted him?  Or is he just going after Fox as he is in the public eye?

Also, where is Chloe Fox through all this?  I haven't seen any press of her being at any of the court proceedings?


#46 BetteBoop

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

QUOTE (~Sorceress~ @ 09/07/2011, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That telegram is pretty damning ... unless Fox could produce other students who thought that was normal and some sort of in-class joke? sick.gif

And relations between a married 36yo and a 17yo youth are just never acceptable. But Fox denies any sexual contact.

But I do think 17yos are a grey area between adulthood and the age of consent, and it probably isn't that simple.

As to how the student knew Fox was uncircumsized, don't all blokes pee in public as a matter of course?  

At any rate, a jury in possession of the necessary facts found him guilty. But from the facts given I can also see that his wife might believe otherwise.


Wow, even Fox didn't think to explain away the circ knowledge with peeing in public. He said the kid forcibly masturbated him. His lawyers could have used your help Sorceress.

As for a "grey area" this has to do with authority over children. In many professions, if you have sex with people in your care whether they are adults or not, you are breaking a professional code of conduct and in some cases, the law. At the very least, you will lose professional registration, at worst, you will face prison.

QUOTE (LittleDCJ @ 09/07/2011, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone know if the 17yo pressed charges against the first person that sexually assualted him?  Or is he just going after Fox as he is in the public eye?


How is this relevant to this case? As for the kid going after Fox only because he's in the public eye, I just vomited in my mouth a little.

Honestly. It wrenches my stomach, the chorus of support of a convicted child abuser. Not the child involved. His abuser.

#47 Oriental lily

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:08 AM

For anyone (man or woman) to face the horrid court system trying to prove sexual assulat/abuse ect then I can not help but think their claims must be true.

Why else would you do it? In this court case the victim has already been painted as the sexual aggressor trying to ruin the marriage and reputation of loving husband. No one would put up with that unless their commitment to getting their abuser to face the law was stronger than those slurs and humiliation.

For some young people teachers are like GODS. They are an amazing influence on not just their education but how they identify themselves. They are role models and the next thing to a parent. So teachers can have lots of influence and power. Maybe not to all students but if  a student builds a relationship with a teacher that makes them feel 'special' and important then they will jump of cliffs for that person.

Or jump in beds.

Is it any different fom a paedophile grooming a younger child?


It annoys me that if he was a 13 year old boy then this horrible man would probably be facing prison for a long time. Yet only 4 short years later the same abuse is seen as pretty much consensual.

Its horrible but I am sure he will get a slap on the risk and Mem fox can continue her illusion of grandeur and sage.

#48 Sweet like a lemon

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (~Sorceress~ @ 09/07/2011, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That telegram is pretty damning ... unless Fox could produce other students who thought that was normal and some sort of in-class joke? sick.gif

And relations between a married 36yo and a 17yo youth are just never acceptable. But Fox denies any sexual contact.

But I do think 17yos are a grey area between adulthood and the age of consent, and it probably isn't that simple.

As to how the student knew Fox was uncircumsized, don't all blokes pee in public as a matter of course?  

At any rate, a jury in possession of the necessary facts found him guilty. But from the facts given I can also see that his wife might believe otherwise.


This - just much better worded than I could.

#49 SylviaPlath

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:20 AM

Why do I read these posts, they only upset me so sad.gif

#50 Oriental lily

Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:32 AM

Imagine if your daughter or son confessed to you that their teacher encouraged them to give them or a head job or w**k.

I know I would want him to face the law and lose his job.

You send your child of to school everyday (and I see all people attending school as children) for an education. You expect adult teachers to have control of themselves even if faced with temptation. Teenagers are wild and impulsive. I remember half of us girls were in love with our PE teacher. I  imagine some of us would have done anything to please him. ANYTHING. Luckily for us he was a happily married man who had integrity and laughed us of.




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