Jump to content

Is veal cruel?
osso bucco


  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#1 lucibella

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:26 AM

Look, I know many people consider eating ANY meat cruel, but is there a reason why veal is more cruel than beef?

I thought of this because I wanted to cook the Osso Bucco dish the italian girls on MKR made, it looked delicious. I went to my butcher and asked for 2kg of Osso Bucco, and he replied that he only had BEEF OB, and not VEAL OB. So I just got the beef and I'm cooking it for easter lunch tomorrow.

But now I remember reading somewhere that veal is cruel and should be avoided, as for example foie gras. Sorry for being so ignorant, can anyone please explain this to me? Is there a worse environmental impact, or are they killed in a crueller way, or is it non-sustainable?

Thanks in advance!

#2 Miss_Catie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:33 AM

I thin its because veal is baby cow, not adult cow

#3 EsmeLennox

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:34 AM

I have no idea - but I do recall hearing that veal is cruel. But if it's just because it's 'baby cow' why isn't eating lamb cruel too? Or suckling pig?

#4 Guest_sunnycat_*

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:36 AM

I thought it was cut out of the mother cow before it is born and that's why it's cruel.

No idea if this is true though!

#5 fancie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:38 AM

The only reason I can think may be a possible explanation for cruelty is that veal is very young calf.  Way back when I was doing home science in the early 70's veal was defined as unborn calf, so I guess was taken from the mother when she was slaughtered.  This was reflected in the very high cost of veal at the time as it was the most tender of all beef cuts as the muscles had never been used as such and was not nearly as plentiful as lets say yearling beef.

I doubt very much that veal is still defined as unborn calf and in fact I recently bought some veal mince that was much much cheaper than beef mince.



#6 Miss_Catie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:43 AM

Ok I just googled *shudder* and its because basically the calf is forced to not move as to ensure it stays tender. Sometimes they are tethered so they cant move, and other times they are shoved in crates. They are fed milk which lacks essential nutrients for a growing calf so that when the calf is killed the end product is appealing (light pink)

Due to lacking nutrients, they are then dosed up with drugs so they don't get diseases and due to their poor living conditions they are often cut up from rubbing against their tiny crates

#7 fancie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:47 AM

Miss Catie, surely calves are supposed to be milk fed.  When I stayed on my aunt and uncles farm, the calves were all fed by their mothers i.e. cow's milk.

#8 L&E

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:47 AM

As far as I know, they take a very very young calf from is mother while it's still suckling. The mother cow bays for her young while it's been taken to be slaughtered. I love the taste of veal, bu I can't eat it knowing the pain that mother cow is feeling. That's why I feel it's cruel.

#9 Doppelgänger

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:48 AM

I have refused to eat veal ever since I was a child and found out it was a baby cow.

#10 Steggles

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:49 AM

I do not buy it - makes me sad sad.gif

#11 Miss_Catie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:50 AM

They are taken away from their Mum as soon as they are born (which you can then go into the milk debate which is how they keep the cows producing milk) sad.gif and fed special formula which lacks the iron and other nutrients

So yes, they SHOULD be fed cows milk but they arent.


I'm also one who wont eat veal, but Im a fussy meat eater as it is

#12 rosebay

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:52 AM

Crikey that's horrific. I love osso bucco but thought it was beef. The pieces look too big to be veal. I only eat organic meat. I wonder (hope) their practices are less cruel. It seems unbelievable that pets are protected from cruelty and yet animals bred for food can be treated in such an inhumane way.

#13 Miss_Catie

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:53 AM

Yep just look at how the animals are transported!

#14 lucibella

Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:08 AM

As for the "baby animal" argument, I understand this, but it makes me wonder what is the difference between veal and lamb?

Lamb is also a baby animal, so how come it's more acceptable than veal?

#15 ironbutterfly

Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:15 AM

The traditional way for veal is to slaughter the mother whilst pregnant.
The modern way is to birth the calf then keep it immobile whilst feeding, with force in some cases, with milk that is not suitable (low protein etc) They figured they could get more muscle mass from a slightly older calf and still be classified as veal as opposed to the old fashioned way. That is provided the calf doesn't move. (Both ways are disgusting and I don't eat veal for this and many other reasons)

Then again you can look at sow stalls and you wouldn't want to eat pork either. However in stating that WA pork farmers have agreed to stop using sow stalls and phase them out over the next 10 years along with other unsuitable practices. Many farmers have taken the change unfortunately it will take 10 years for the rest to comply.

#16 ironbutterfly

Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:19 AM

QUOTE (lucibella @ 24/04/2011, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for the "baby animal" argument, I understand this, but it makes me wonder what is the difference between veal and lamb?

Lamb is also a baby animal, so how come it's more acceptable than veal?

Lambs are allowed to remain with their mothers for sometime, they are also not forced to lay in confined areas and fed milk that is lacking basic sustanence.

ETA it used to be common practice to break calves legs as to render them immobile too

Edited by ironbutterfly, 24 April 2011 - 02:24 AM.


#17 monique13

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:47 AM

Lamb is between 6 months and 12 months old.
Proper veal is either killed just before birth, or just after. sad.gif
Ick

The lambs get a chance to run around and have a life.

#18 CountryFeral

Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:08 AM

Veal is baby cow.

The veal you can buy here in the butcher or in the supermarket is generally baby boy cow.

This is a parenting forum so I would assume that people reading it would have a basic understanding of how lactation works?

To maintain lactation in a cow she needs to give birth right? But the milk she is producing is earmarked not for her calf but for human consumption - ergo her calf is removed from her AFTER birth and is then (on every farm I have ever come into contact with) fed on milk via a calf feeder if it is a female calf OR taken to the abattoir if it is a boy calf..... veal.

A smaller farm will leave the calves in with the mothers. As will calves that have been specifically bred for herd improvement, breeding stock.

If you follow the seasonality of food you will notice that veal will be cheap at certain times of the year, this is when there is a large oversupply due to all the new calves being born .

As pp have mentioned 'lamb' is simply young sheep, not little baby lambs, it is a marketing term really in Australia as the Australian consumer has an aversion to buying 'mutton' which is the term for older sheep.

Veal is a byproduct of commercial milk production - if you feel sad about buying veal than perhaps now is a very good time to check yourself before you support the 'big two' supermarkets in their milk price wars.

Buying branded milk from a small local producer is a far more ethical, sustainable choice - one that leads to far better outcomes for the animals (and farmers) involved.

#19 Mrs Dinosaurus

Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:14 AM

Agree with above explanations of veal and it's current conditions (ie it is no longer unborn cow) and although baby sheep and baby pigs have a slightly better deal, both are treated horribly in large farms - pigs in particular have awful conditions in Australia. But then chicken farms and fish farms are horrible too and I've seen them and still eat meat - I guess it depends on your level of empathy between human and meat - I would actively buy and spend more $ to get well looked after meat, but in the end won't go vegan ic I can't.

As for organic - this has nothing to do with the animals living conditions but what they ate fed/injected with. Because of living conditions for some animals in Australia, organic sometimes means worse actual conditions than others - chicken eggs for example, organic chickens are kept outside in a very overcrowded pen while battery hens are kept in cages that are inside and sadly, more spacious.

Veal is probably the worst, chickens and pigs are next, cows and sheep the best. If you want to stay a meat eater and have strong ethics regarding the welfare of animals I wouldn't do a lot of research. My SIL is an ethical vegan and though she drives me batty at times, she is largely correct in that IF you want animals to be treated well in life and death before you eat them, there's not much you can ethically eat in Australia (or she would say the world!)

#20 icekool

Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:24 AM

We don't eat veal. DH and DS2 eats beef but I don't eat any beef (no steak/stir fry but enjoy a sausage every so often). DS1 doesn't like meat. DH thinks eating veal is cruel.

I use to buy veal bones for our dog. They were good for his teeth, he loved it. Then one day, the butcher told me that some of the them don't even walk and they only have milk from their mum and that is why their bones are still soft. I stop buying veal bones that day! I was horrified. So now our dog gets chicken bones.




#21 monique13

Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:34 AM

Actually your upper end chiefs (the same one's that serve foie gras) still will serve proper veal, a calf killed just before birth.
Gary from Master chief had a big spiel about it in his cookbook.  He refuses to use any meat under 6 months old. original.gif

#22 mischiefmaker

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE
but is there a reason why veal is more cruel than beef?

I really can't believe you even need to ask.   blink.gif

Calves are taken from their mother's shortly after birth and are generally slaughtered within 5 days.

It's sickens me to the core, and I cannot fathom how anyone can eat veal.  But, then again, I also cannot fathom how anyone can eat any beef (or any other meat for that matter).   Cows are stunned before slaughter, then hoisted by a hind leg before the dismemberment begins. They are still conscious when this happens.  sad.gif

QUOTE
Gary from Master chief had a big spiel about it in his cookbook. He refuses to use any meat under 6 months old.  original.gif

Oh how good of him.  He only uses meat that has been allowed to live for 6 glorious months before being horrifically slaughtered.  


#23 s-m

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:29 AM

True veal is newborn, ie has not eaten or drunk anything. Veal is a byproduct of the dairy industry.

It beats me how some people will go veg for humane reasons but still drink commercially produced milk.

While veal is traditionally used for Osso Bucco, I think older meat works fine in slow cooking type dishes and personally prefer a slightly richer flavour.

Steph

#24 Kay1

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:42 AM

Thank you for that post countrymel. original.gif Really informative for us city slickers. I have never ordered veal or bought it because I have always known it is unborn or newborn cow. I never knew those cruel details though I must admit. sad.gif

QUOTE
As pp have mentioned 'lamb' is simply young sheep, not little baby lambs, it is a marketing term really in Australia as the Australian consumer has an aversion to buying 'mutton' which is the term for older sheep.


This is interesting. Lamb is my favourite meat but I recently stopped eating it after getting close to a baby lamb one day (superficial and hypocritical I know).

Can anyone answer me this? I buy my milk from Farmers Direct and therefore am not supporting the milk wars. Is this a better/more ethical option? I am paying way more than I would at the supermarket but I am happy to do so if it is supporting smaller milk producers but I am just not sure. The milk we are delivered changes labels regularly.


#25 Tofu Puff

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:48 AM

QUOTE
It seems unbelievable that pets are protected from cruelty and yet animals bred for food can be treated in such an inhumane way.


This.

Gawd, I have been vego for going on 20 years and I knew about crated calves (and everything in mischiefmaker's and countrymel's posts) but even I never knew about "traditional" veal i.e. taken in utero. The lengths some people will go to for their tastebuds has me constantly astounded.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Special offer: The Baby & Toddler Show 2014

At The Baby & Toddler Show, you?ll find everything you need to get ready for your new arrival and guide you through the early weeks and years of parenting.

An open letter to Tony Abbott: please salvage our super

We face financial ruin, but most of us don?t realise it. If we don?t act together to salvage our superannuation, I have no doubt the new GFC will be the Girls? Financial Crisis.

'I'm happy to know I'm changing lives': surrogate mum of two

I know that once the baby is born, I will focus on the gift I have given, and watch the parents with their new child. I can't wait for that day.

Birth trauma and the issue of informed consent

There is a perception that women should just be happy they have a healthy baby in their arms. But for women who experienced birth trauma, there's a lot more to it.

Tips for managing pollen allergies and hayfever

They're simple tips, but they can have a big impact on those who suffer from hayfever and pollen allergies.

Ada Nicodemou shares tribute to her stillborn baby

Just over one month since Ada Nicodemou and her husband lost their second son, the Home and Away star has shared a touching poem for her baby.

Mum causes stir breastfeeding on train

?To the woman breastfeeding her kid on the train. Seriously! On the train?" began the letter of complaint.

10 things they don?t tell you about being pregnant

As I slowly waddle my ever-changing pregnant body towards the finishing line of my due date, it?s becoming increasingly clear there are a lot of things they just don?t tell you about pregnancy.

Overcoming a fear of the dark

A toddler's fear of the dark is very normal, but there are ways parents can help children through this stage in their development.

Kids, TV and movies: how young is too young?

It seems you don't have to throw the TV and iPad out the window - it all boils down to moderation, supervision and interaction.

Video: Baby's first birthday is a special day for mum, too

?A baby?s first birthday is also mum?s first birthday.?

The day Supernanny came to tea

Prince William's favourite celebrity child trainer Jo Frost puts Bryony Gordon and her toddler through their paces.

Tales from the homefront

When you're at work you sort of assume that your house is basically just sitting there quietly doing nothing until you return. However, since spending my days at home, I've learned this couldn't be further from the truth.

The words I hated hearing as new mum

It was less than a week after my son was born that I first heard it - from my mother.

To the pharmacist who sold me baby formula

On the rare occasion I catch sight of you at school, or around town, I think back to our earliest exchange. I?m sure you have no recollection of it at all.

Babies may benefit from autism therapy

Children showing signs of autism don't usually receive early intervention until well into toddlerhood or later, but a new study suggests infants with symptoms of the developmental disorder might benefit from therapy from as early as six months.

Knatalye and Adeline born with an everlasting bond

Knatalye Hope and Adeline Faith are a lot like any other identical twin girls, but there is one dramatic difference: they're joined at the chest and shares several internal organs.

The question this dad wishes he'd asked his wife

I should have seen that my wife wasn't the same person I'd fallen in love with, but we were both too focused on simply trying to get by.

Why we should talk about the deaths of the Hunt children

The deaths are too horrible even to think about. Yet we owe it to the children - Fletcher, Mia and Phoebe Hunt - to think long and hard about it all.

Baby dies of meningococcal weeks after vaccine application denied

A six-month-old girl has died from meningococcal disease just weeks after an application for government funding of a vaccine for the most deadly strain of the virus was rejected.

Finding the right balance when playing with your kids

Being too involved in our children?s play and not allowing our kids enough free time for unstructured activities can mean our kids miss out on the value that play offers.

Creative DIY light shades

The Pop Light light shade comes in a flat pack already made - it's up to you to design it as you'd like.

The battle of iParenting versus imagination

Have we forgotten how to be imaginative, resourceful parents?

Why movement is so important for your baby's growth

Letting your child move as much as possible in the early years ? using all senses, engaging in the real world, preferably outside ? will help them grow up healthier, smarter, calmer and stronger.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Special offer: The Baby & Toddler Show 2014

At The Baby & Toddler Show, you?ll find everything you need to get ready for your new arrival and guide you through the early weeks and years of parenting.

Losing yourself to motherhood

While watching your baby grow into a unique little person is exciting and wondrous, the intensity of meeting everyone else?s needs can ever so sneakily overtake your own needs for self-care.

Tearing during delivery: the facts

Almost all women will experience bruising, grazing or tearing after a vaginal birth. Depending on the degree of tearing, there are various treatments available.

6 tips for a day out with a baby and toddler

Outings can be lots of fun with the kids, but there are inevitable challenges. Here's some information about days out to help you be a little more prepared.

Why I invited a dozen people to watch my son's birth

I sent invitations on burgundy scrapbooking paper stamped with a field of poppies, and told each person why I wanted him or her there. I warned that there would be nudity.

Getting labour started: tips for a natural induction

When your baby?s due date comes and goes without so much as a pop - let alone a bang - it can be disheartening. Mums and a doula share their stories of natural inductions.

7 mistakes old hands make with new babies

As I sat across the table from my friend ? me, a seasoned mother of three; her, a brand new mum ? I thought of all the mistakes an old-hand parent can make when visiting a newborn baby.

That's my boy: a dad's diary of the first 4 months

Unbearable anxiety, unspeakable joy, constant exhaustion and bouts of frustration ... The many shocks of first-time fatherhood resound in a dad's diary of his son's early months.

One of the most important things a new mum can do

Finances may not be as cute as a newborn, but with many women?s working arrangements changing post-baby, monetary matters need attention too.

Single, pregnant - and 51

She first became a mum at 49 - now, two years later, Tracey Khan is pregnant with her second child.

Personalised baby gifts

We've scoured the internet to find gorgeous personalised keepsakes and nursery decor to record baby name and dates. They make great gifts for christenings, name days and birthdays! (All prices in AU.)

 

Reader offer

2 FOR 1 TICKET OFFER

For Shopping, For Advice, For Baby & You. Enjoy a special day out with fabulous shopping from over 200 brands, leading parenting experts offering advice on a range of topics, and amazing children?s entertainment

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.