Jump to content

Ban the Burka?
Do Muslims really like wearing it?


  • Please log in to reply
330 replies to this topic

#1 jmag

Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:44 AM

Hi all,

Just watching the news and this topic was brought up on TODAY.

Just after being at work the other day and it came up over lunch that France had banned it in their country. Also a lady I work with wears the head piece but doesn't cover her whole face as she doesn't like it.

I am a bit naieve about the religion/culture and was wondering why they actually wear it and if they acually like wearing it?



Muslim womans feedback welcome too!

Just curious... original.gif

#2 ozbilby

Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:55 AM

To start with I am not Muslim but I do have several Muslim friends. I think that banning the practice of religon of any kind is the beginning of the end of civil rights. Out of three of my Muslim friends two wear the hajib (the hair covering) and one does not. They are not forced either way it is a personal choice. I would be livid if somebody told me I could no longer wear what I wanted too!

#3 LunaBlue

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:00 AM

No one is talking about the head covering, but the whole body and face covering. In Sydney where we lived I used to see several women wear a full Burka and I would think man that must be hot in summer. These women were ALWAYS in pairs and ALWAYS had a man with them (usually ahead of them). Here in Brisbane I have only seen it once and also thought about the heat.

Not sure about banning it, but it surely must be uncomfortable in the heat

#4 Roobear

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:04 AM

I am fuming after hearing this.

I can't believe people are still using the ignorant western idea that women are forced to wear the burqa. I am not a muslim, but have a few friends that are and it is their choice. It is a decision they make between them and their God.

If we are going to ban the burqa - we need to ban all religious symbols.

#5 missjoads1234

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE
If a woman chooses to wear it, that's fine. If a woman feels she's being forced to wear it, that's not OK.


This  original.gif

The only thing that doesnt seem right is how they are allowed to get away with wearing it completely covering their face, when entering places that ask you to remove helmets etc etc. Who knows ? They may be using it as a disguse and if a place demands to remove head gear, they should do comply with this.



#6 miriams

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:07 AM

I have to admit that personally I do not like the burqa at all. I have only seen someone wear it once or twice though . The burqa is that garment which completely covers with a small mesh for the face. Far more common is the abaya (black overcoat) combined with a black niqab (faceveil).  I quite like the hijab (headscarf) - where I live the girls wear them very fashionably  laugh.gif The niqab  makes me feel completely alienated and as though those wearing it, and those accompanying them, think I am impious and impure for wearing a skirt and blouse and not covering up further. Of course, no such thought may be running through their heads.  I'm not sure that legally banning the faceveil would help....it might just mean that these women never get to go out at all whereas now they might be allowed out with friends if they wear it. As a PP said, banning what people wear is the start to the end of civil rights. Which, of course, some people want (think the likes of those who supported Mussolini et al last time and did rather well out of it). It will end badly for all of us who do not share their views, not just Muslims.

#7 Gangnam Style

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE
Not sure about banning it, but it surely must be uncomfortable

G-strings look pretty uncomfortable to me too. Many women wear them to please men...perhaps they should be banned?

#8 zenah18

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:13 AM

I am Muslim, I don’t wear the scarf, however I know quite a Muslim chicks who do, and they are really displease and hurt about all what’s been going on. None of them were forced to wear it; they are really talented, independent, educated, beautiful women. The ones that wear the burka are by choice too!!
p.s none of these ladies I know walk ONLY in pairs, lollllllll oh and with a dude too!! Lol how funny.  I honestly almost p*ssed myself reading that.  roll2.gif  laughing2.gif  roll2.gif  grin.gif  hahahaha


#9 Sweet like a lemon

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE (ozbilby @ 07/05/2010, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To start with I am not Muslim but I do have several Muslim friends. I think that banning the practice of religon of any kind is the beginning of the end of civil rights.


This. I think it is up to the individual. If a Muslim woman does not choose to wear one, it is entirely her right. If a Muslim woman chooses to wear one, that is entirely her right too.
I would sooner see hoodies and bum huggers (jeans worn mainly to expose the polyester boxer undies) banned.

#10 kpingitquiet

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

From what I know of muslim tradition, growing up in a fairly muslim-heavy area, the purpose of the niqab/veiled-burqa/chadi (the actual face-covering portion of women's clothing) may have begun as a practical measure in sandy/windy environments and was also possibly a way to conceal women of childbearing age, letting them blend with older women, to avoid kidnap when raids were common. It evolved into a commitment to modesty, outlined as very important in the Qur'an as several of Muhummad's wives covered themselves and veiled when in the presence of non-familial men.

It is not uncommon in many orthodox religions to cover one's hair, face, arms, legs, etc. for various reasons. And there are no definitve answers on whether it's God's law or not, of course. Muslim scholars/clerics disagree on the issue amongst themselves. But to many modern muslim women, they feel it is a symbol of their deep love of God and commitment to their faith, just as some nuns see their habits in a similar light, and why many jewish women cover their hair. It removes a sense of vanity, not showing one's face, theoretically allowing more thought-time for religious and family matters.

I don't feel it's my place to agree or disagree with the practice. I do not believe muslim women are more or less likely to commit crimes than any other women in the world. There are a billion ways to conceal one's face for criminal purposes--Anyone see the story on the toilet-paper wrapped robber, this week? Are we going to outlaw tp? I do believe that if we don't start treating muslims as normal, run-of-the-mill people, not suspects, we will do nothing but create more bad will and anger in the population. People have always picked on groups that were somehow different and claimed they were worse than others...Black people, immigrants, Jews, etc...it's never done anything but harm when those feelings remain high in the popular agenda.



#11 Guest_missmeow_*

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

I think it is a woman's right to wear whatever she wants wherever she wants.

If someone wants to wear a Burka knock go for it, if you want to wear a mini skirt go for it. Just because I don't doesn't mean I care.

France should be ashamed and appalled. I pray that no such legislation ever is proposed in Austalia let alone becomes legislation.

#12 casime

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:29 AM

I don't care what people wear (although as one PP said, showing your undies over the top of your jeans makes me  sick.gif )

I do think they should be prepared to be uncovered in a passport photo and to show their face to prove their identity.   All the international airports I  have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.

#13 TEN!

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

In Afghanistan, where women were forced to wear the burqa, most of them hated it.

In Australia, I think it is a political statement and nothing to do with freedom of religion.  Same with France.  Good on France for banning something which represents a fundamental rejection of their way of life.

If people seriously want to dress that way, then they should have stayed in countries where it is the norm.  I know some wonderful Muslim ladies.  None of them wear a hijab, much less a niqab or burqa.  Its not a religious requirement.

Edited by Privileged, 07 May 2010 - 08:31 AM.


#14 jp123

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:54 AM

Some interesting points to take into consideration: (I have been living in France for 15 months)

France is one of three countries in the world that are technically secular. This is, religion and the state have been very clearly seperated for a long time. It is a consitutional matter and culturally very significant. Many French catholics do not wear the cross for this reason. This also might help explain how the Burqua is seen as not conductive with French way of life.

Also, 7% of France's population is muslim. This is much higher than australia's rate and from my experience living in France, there is a big community divide. With a larger muslim population than here, Burqa wearing is more "in-your-face" than here. I think the overall senitment there is that it goes beyond a small minortiy doing as they please but starts to become a real change in the cultural landscape. The move towards modesty could be seen as a backwards regression from the country that introduced and popularised topless bathing.

Additionally, France's immigration policy is much like a melting pot. Immigrants are expected to integrate and the burqua could possibly be seen as an outward disregard for this concept.

Anyway, I'm not saying that I agree with France's policy (I'm undecided), but as a person who has made a serious attempt and intergrating into the French way of life, I hope i can offer some of my understanding of the cultural ideas behind the policy, and hope that people can look at the issue from France's perspectives, not Australia's.



#15 niggles

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE
One thing to be fearful of is the slow chipping away of our liberties and rights.


Amen to that.

Chip, chip...chip, chip.

#16 ~~nik~~

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:15 AM

I really couldn't care less what people where but a random question pops into my head........  If the burka is ok to wear in pubic (banks, airports etc) is it ok to wear a full faced motor bike helmut where the face is also concealed?

6 for one, half a dozen for the other.

#17 kpingitquiet

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (~~nik~~ @ 07/05/2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really couldn't care less what people where but a random question pops into my head........ If the burka is ok to wear in pubic (banks, airports etc) is it ok to wear a full faced motor bike helmut where the face is also concealed?

6 for one, half a dozen for the other.


I suppose that all depends on whether or not the helmet-wearing person in question is a member of an established and recognized helmet-wearing faith. A hobby is not the same as one's religious practice.

#18 jayare

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE (kpingitquiet @ 07/05/2010, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I know of muslim tradition, growing up in a fairly muslim-heavy area, the purpose of the niqab/veiled-burqa/chadi (the actual face-covering portion of women's clothing) may have begun as a practical measure in sandy/windy environments and was also possibly a way to conceal women of childbearing age, letting them blend with older women, to avoid kidnap when raids were common. It evolved into a commitment to modesty, outlined as very important in the Qur'an as several of Muhummad's wives covered themselves and veiled when in the presence of non-familial men.

It is not uncommon in many orthodox religions to cover one's hair, face, arms, legs, etc. for various reasons. And there are no definitve answers on whether it's God's law or not, of course. Muslim scholars/clerics disagree on the issue amongst themselves. But to many modern muslim women, they feel it is a symbol of their deep love of God and commitment to their faith, just as some nuns see their habits in a similar light, and why many jewish women cover their hair. It removes a sense of vanity, not showing one's face, theoretically allowing more thought-time for religious and family matters.

I don't feel it's my place to agree or disagree with the practice. I do not believe muslim women are more or less likely to commit crimes than any other women in the world. There are a billion ways to conceal one's face for criminal purposes--Anyone see the story on the toilet-paper wrapped robber, this week? Are we going to outlaw tp? I do believe that if we don't start treating muslims as normal, run-of-the-mill people, not suspects, we will do nothing but create more bad will and anger in the population. People have always picked on groups that were somehow different and claimed they were worse than others...Black people, immigrants, Jews, etc...it's never done anything but harm when those feelings remain high in the popular agenda.


cclap.gif  
well said.

#19 Sweet like a lemon

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Privileged @ 07/05/2010, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In Afghanistan, where women were forced to wear the burqa, most of them hated it.

In Australia, I think it is a political statement and nothing to do with freedom of religion.  Same with France.  Good on France for banning something which represents a fundamental rejection of their way of life.

If people seriously want to dress that way, then they should have stayed in countries where it is the norm.  I know some wonderful Muslim ladies.  None of them wear a hijab, much less a niqab or burqa.  Its not a religious requirement.


Is that how you feel, or is this just another inflammatory post designed to make people feel as p*ssed off as you?

#20 Flimsy*But*Fun

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE
I do think they should be prepared to be uncovered in a passport photo and to show their face to prove their identity. All the international airports I have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.
This is reasonable, I think.

Banning an article of clothing seems completely unreasonable.  If covering the face is an issue, they should ban beanies and scarves.  When I walked the streets of Paris in a November very many years ago, I had a beanie to my eyebrows and a woollen scarf pulled up past my nose!  You could only see my eyes.

#21 adandtia

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:26 AM

QUOTE
France is one of three countries in the world that are technically secular. This is, religion and the state have been very clearly seperated for a long time. It is a consitutional matter and culturally very significant. Many French catholics do not wear the cross for this reason. This also might help explain how the Burqua is seen as not conductive with French way of life.


This. I'm undecided either way but I do understand where they are coming from. Why should it not be important to keep it a secular society?
Personally, I find the burqua very confronting. Not being able to see one's face makes it very difficult to comunicate with them.


#22 ~~nik~~

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (kpingitquiet @ 07/05/2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose that all depends on whether or not the helmet-wearing person in question is a member of an established and recognized helmet-wearing faith. A hobby is not the same as one's religious practice.

The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places.  Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?


My personal opinion is live and let live.  If the burka is what they want to wear then let them wear it - much like if you want to wear a helmut all day long.



#23 niggles

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE
The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places. Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?


Bring to mind for a moment a deeply held belief that you have. I'm talking about a position that you wouldn't change and which would make you feel compromised to do so....Now imagine someone is comparing that to a trivial habit another person has and which they can change with at most a minor inconvenience.

That is the difference between a face covering which represents a moral belief and a bike helment, mask, fashion accessory etc.

#24 Oma Desala

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE
If we are going to ban the burqa - we need to ban all religious symbols.
cclap.gif

QUOTE
All the international airports I have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.
This is also done in most banks when you need to prove your identification with photo ID.  They ask you to join them in a side room so as not to offend the customer.

I have no problem with women wearing a burka.  I see it no different to wearing a star of david or crucifix.

#25 hawkchick

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:42 AM

I only have one Muslim friend. She is 5th generation Australian and converted to Islam a few years ago. She wears the garb where her face is visible but the rest of her hair and clothing are covert (forgive my ignorance of what it's called - Hajib I think) and she wears this by choice. Her husband is not a Muslim.
I cannot speak for other Muslims.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Win a copy of 'Breakfast, School Run, Chemo'

To celebrate the launch of EB member and contributor Julia's Watson's first book, we have five copies of Breakfast, School Run, Chemo give away.

Electronic tags may keep newborns safe

The possibility of using electronic bracelets for mothers and their newborn babies is being investigated by Adelaide's Women's and Children's Hospital. 

Baby steps: when your little one starts walking

As a parent there are so many milestones to look forward to. That first smile, first word - and, of course, that first step.

Julia Watson's new book 'Breakfast, School Run, Chemo'

Tomorrow my friend Julia launches her first book. And while we're all overjoyed, the success is tinged with sadness. You see, Julia has stage 4 bowel cancer.

How not to name twins

Call me boring, but I don't think that when it comes to choosing my twins' names is the right time to use a good pun.

Fun Sunny Life pool inflatables just for babies

The babies of 2015 will thus be thrilled to paddle their happy baby legs in these brand new flamingo and swan baby inflatables.

Breastfeeding basics for beginners

Here are 10 tips to help make breastfeeding successful and stress free for both you and your baby as quickly as possible.

Girl smothers baby brother with peanut butter

This mum had a big clean up job on her hands.

How to hide those under eye shadows

Pandas are the only ones who benefit from under-eye shadows. If you're not fluffy and cute, you'll just look tired.

Young mum dies after being denied pap smear

A mother has died after she was denied a pap smear because she was deemed "too young" to need it.

Birthday cakes banned at childcare centre

A childcare centre in Sydney has banned birthday cakes after parent complaints about excessive sugar and children with allergies being left out.

Triplet surprise for newlyweds

As the radiographer moved the wand over her abdomen, Shelley King got the surprise of her life.

3 yummy Thermomix baby and toddler recipes

Louise Fulton Keats shares her recipes for babies and toddlers, including corn and sweet pikelets, pumpkin and pea risotto, and cheesy bunny biscuits.

Man arrested over toddler Nikki's death

A 31-year-old man has been arrested over the death of two-year-old Nikki Francis-Coslovich in Mildura.

Adoption ban on pregnant women to be lifted

Pregnant women will no longer be barred from adoption waiting lists in NSW, after the Baird Government decided the practice was discriminatory.

Are you getting enough magnesium?

Magnesium is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body, but we don't talk enough about it and the vital role it plays in great health and energy, as well as disease prevention.

5 workplace lessons for new parents

Take heart in these principles that will transfer seamlessly from the workplace into your new life as a parent.

Mums to follow on Instagram

A creative outlet for many, there are some savvy women complementing their blogs and businesses with riveting Instagrams feeds. We've chosen a few which have bucketloads of appeal; there are some big time players and some smaller local ones, and they each bring their special brand of magic to the Instagram experience.

Review: The Volvo 2015 XC90 SUV has all the safety features your family needs

The new Volvo XC90 SUV's focus on keeping you safe does not come at the expense of comfort in the XC90.

Kim Kardashian reveals she may have hysterectomy

Kim Kardashian has revealed complications during pregnancy means she might have to have a hysterectomy after the birth of her second child.

Why late night snacks wreak havoc on weight loss

 Loath as you may be to admit it, chances are that at some point you have found yourself in the kitchen late at night, devouring food.

Toddler twins pretend to be asleep to fool mum

They say twins have a unique connection. If this cute clip is anything to go by, these toddler sisters like to use their special bond to try to fool their mother.

Dad bags: 10 picks for out and about

Getting out of the house is a big priority in the early years of parenthood and you need to take a well-stocked kit with you. We've chosen 10 of the best nappy bags sure to appeal to dads in style and function.

Win a Mountain Buggy Swift

To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Dads who do their share have more sex: study

For women trying to encourage their partners to take more interest in fatherhood, it could be the ultimate incentive.

Think you might have IBS, coeliac disease or Crohn's?

Conditions affecting the gastrointestinal tract are common in modern humans, and many are on the rise - including irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and coeliac disease.

Couple poses for newborn shoot with adorable puppy

Tired of being asked about their baby-making plans, Australian couple Matt and Abby decided to give a creative answer.

The exercises you know you should be doing (but probably aren't)

I bet your to-do list today is long. But somewhere on that massive list, are you making time for your pelvic floor?

This baby really loves the family cat

Some babies get excited when mum or dad come to get them from their cot after a nap.

Designer kids clothing good enough to eat by Oeuf

Even if you aren't heading to the Northern hemisphere in the next six months, you can't help but love the amazing food-themed knits for babies and kids by cult kids brand Oeuf.

Early exposure to peanuts recommended for allergy prevention

A paediatricians' group is recommending that infants at high risk of peanut allergies be given foods containing peanuts before they turn one.

Home brand foods contain less salt than pricier rivals

Supermarket home brand foods, long derided as cheap and inferior, contain far lower levels of salt than pricier, branded rivals, new research shows.

Nannies for hire, wherever you're flying

Ever dreaded the prospect of a long flight, dreaming about how wonderful it would be for a nanny to entertain the kids?

Couple poses for newborn shoot with adorable puppy

Tired of being asked about their baby-making plans, Australian couple Matt and Abby decided to give a creative answer: with an unusual photo shoot with their 'baby', a groodle (poodle/golden retriever cross) named Humphrey. The talented Elisha from Elisha Minnette Photography caught all the precious shots.

Is it okay to name your baby with a sense of humour?

My husband was sure that Danger was a good option for a boy. And as the pregnancy progressed, it actually started to sound really good.

Woman gives birth after having her own mother's uterus transplanted

In a world first, a healthy baby has been born from the same womb that nurtured his own mother.

So hot right now: double-barrelled baby names on the rise

It's one way to make your baby stand out from the pack – giving them not one, but two first names.

Second time around: is it really better the devil you know?

When I fell pregnant with my second child I was, naturally, very excited. Then it all started to come back to me - and I freaked.

Shopping with kids: breaking the pester-power cycle

You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.

How did we have babies before apps came along?

Three months ago, my wife, Chrysta, and I were driving along Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles when she let out a harrowing cry.

When your toddler disagrees

There comes a time when your child starts having different views to you. I didn't realise that time would come so soon.

Win a Pacapod this Father's Day

To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW

 

FREE TICKET

Discover the magic of the LEGO DUPLO Play Area in Sydney

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.