Jump to content

Ban the Burka?
Do Muslims really like wearing it?


  • Please log in to reply
330 replies to this topic

#1 jmag

Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:44 AM

Hi all,

Just watching the news and this topic was brought up on TODAY.

Just after being at work the other day and it came up over lunch that France had banned it in their country. Also a lady I work with wears the head piece but doesn't cover her whole face as she doesn't like it.

I am a bit naieve about the religion/culture and was wondering why they actually wear it and if they acually like wearing it?



Muslim womans feedback welcome too!

Just curious... original.gif

#2 ozbilby

Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:55 AM

To start with I am not Muslim but I do have several Muslim friends. I think that banning the practice of religon of any kind is the beginning of the end of civil rights. Out of three of my Muslim friends two wear the hajib (the hair covering) and one does not. They are not forced either way it is a personal choice. I would be livid if somebody told me I could no longer wear what I wanted too!

#3 LunaBlue

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:00 AM

No one is talking about the head covering, but the whole body and face covering. In Sydney where we lived I used to see several women wear a full Burka and I would think man that must be hot in summer. These women were ALWAYS in pairs and ALWAYS had a man with them (usually ahead of them). Here in Brisbane I have only seen it once and also thought about the heat.

Not sure about banning it, but it surely must be uncomfortable in the heat

#4 Roobear

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:04 AM

I am fuming after hearing this.

I can't believe people are still using the ignorant western idea that women are forced to wear the burqa. I am not a muslim, but have a few friends that are and it is their choice. It is a decision they make between them and their God.

If we are going to ban the burqa - we need to ban all religious symbols.

#5 missjoads1234

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE
If a woman chooses to wear it, that's fine. If a woman feels she's being forced to wear it, that's not OK.


This  original.gif

The only thing that doesnt seem right is how they are allowed to get away with wearing it completely covering their face, when entering places that ask you to remove helmets etc etc. Who knows ? They may be using it as a disguse and if a place demands to remove head gear, they should do comply with this.



#6 miriams

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:07 AM

I have to admit that personally I do not like the burqa at all. I have only seen someone wear it once or twice though . The burqa is that garment which completely covers with a small mesh for the face. Far more common is the abaya (black overcoat) combined with a black niqab (faceveil).  I quite like the hijab (headscarf) - where I live the girls wear them very fashionably  laugh.gif The niqab  makes me feel completely alienated and as though those wearing it, and those accompanying them, think I am impious and impure for wearing a skirt and blouse and not covering up further. Of course, no such thought may be running through their heads.  I'm not sure that legally banning the faceveil would help....it might just mean that these women never get to go out at all whereas now they might be allowed out with friends if they wear it. As a PP said, banning what people wear is the start to the end of civil rights. Which, of course, some people want (think the likes of those who supported Mussolini et al last time and did rather well out of it). It will end badly for all of us who do not share their views, not just Muslims.

#7 Gangnam Style

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE
Not sure about banning it, but it surely must be uncomfortable

G-strings look pretty uncomfortable to me too. Many women wear them to please men...perhaps they should be banned?

#8 zenah18

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:13 AM

I am Muslim, I don’t wear the scarf, however I know quite a Muslim chicks who do, and they are really displease and hurt about all what’s been going on. None of them were forced to wear it; they are really talented, independent, educated, beautiful women. The ones that wear the burka are by choice too!!
p.s none of these ladies I know walk ONLY in pairs, lollllllll oh and with a dude too!! Lol how funny.  I honestly almost p*ssed myself reading that.  roll2.gif  laughing2.gif  roll2.gif  grin.gif  hahahaha


#9 Feral like a Lemon

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE (ozbilby @ 07/05/2010, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To start with I am not Muslim but I do have several Muslim friends. I think that banning the practice of religon of any kind is the beginning of the end of civil rights.


This. I think it is up to the individual. If a Muslim woman does not choose to wear one, it is entirely her right. If a Muslim woman chooses to wear one, that is entirely her right too.
I would sooner see hoodies and bum huggers (jeans worn mainly to expose the polyester boxer undies) banned.

#10 kpingitquiet

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

From what I know of muslim tradition, growing up in a fairly muslim-heavy area, the purpose of the niqab/veiled-burqa/chadi (the actual face-covering portion of women's clothing) may have begun as a practical measure in sandy/windy environments and was also possibly a way to conceal women of childbearing age, letting them blend with older women, to avoid kidnap when raids were common. It evolved into a commitment to modesty, outlined as very important in the Qur'an as several of Muhummad's wives covered themselves and veiled when in the presence of non-familial men.

It is not uncommon in many orthodox religions to cover one's hair, face, arms, legs, etc. for various reasons. And there are no definitve answers on whether it's God's law or not, of course. Muslim scholars/clerics disagree on the issue amongst themselves. But to many modern muslim women, they feel it is a symbol of their deep love of God and commitment to their faith, just as some nuns see their habits in a similar light, and why many jewish women cover their hair. It removes a sense of vanity, not showing one's face, theoretically allowing more thought-time for religious and family matters.

I don't feel it's my place to agree or disagree with the practice. I do not believe muslim women are more or less likely to commit crimes than any other women in the world. There are a billion ways to conceal one's face for criminal purposes--Anyone see the story on the toilet-paper wrapped robber, this week? Are we going to outlaw tp? I do believe that if we don't start treating muslims as normal, run-of-the-mill people, not suspects, we will do nothing but create more bad will and anger in the population. People have always picked on groups that were somehow different and claimed they were worse than others...Black people, immigrants, Jews, etc...it's never done anything but harm when those feelings remain high in the popular agenda.



#11 Guest_missmeow_*

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

I think it is a woman's right to wear whatever she wants wherever she wants.

If someone wants to wear a Burka knock go for it, if you want to wear a mini skirt go for it. Just because I don't doesn't mean I care.

France should be ashamed and appalled. I pray that no such legislation ever is proposed in Austalia let alone becomes legislation.

#12 casime

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:29 AM

I don't care what people wear (although as one PP said, showing your undies over the top of your jeans makes me  sick.gif )

I do think they should be prepared to be uncovered in a passport photo and to show their face to prove their identity.   All the international airports I  have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.

#13 TEN!

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

In Afghanistan, where women were forced to wear the burqa, most of them hated it.

In Australia, I think it is a political statement and nothing to do with freedom of religion.  Same with France.  Good on France for banning something which represents a fundamental rejection of their way of life.

If people seriously want to dress that way, then they should have stayed in countries where it is the norm.  I know some wonderful Muslim ladies.  None of them wear a hijab, much less a niqab or burqa.  Its not a religious requirement.

Edited by Privileged, 07 May 2010 - 08:31 AM.


#14 jp123

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:54 AM

Some interesting points to take into consideration: (I have been living in France for 15 months)

France is one of three countries in the world that are technically secular. This is, religion and the state have been very clearly seperated for a long time. It is a consitutional matter and culturally very significant. Many French catholics do not wear the cross for this reason. This also might help explain how the Burqua is seen as not conductive with French way of life.

Also, 7% of France's population is muslim. This is much higher than australia's rate and from my experience living in France, there is a big community divide. With a larger muslim population than here, Burqa wearing is more "in-your-face" than here. I think the overall senitment there is that it goes beyond a small minortiy doing as they please but starts to become a real change in the cultural landscape. The move towards modesty could be seen as a backwards regression from the country that introduced and popularised topless bathing.

Additionally, France's immigration policy is much like a melting pot. Immigrants are expected to integrate and the burqua could possibly be seen as an outward disregard for this concept.

Anyway, I'm not saying that I agree with France's policy (I'm undecided), but as a person who has made a serious attempt and intergrating into the French way of life, I hope i can offer some of my understanding of the cultural ideas behind the policy, and hope that people can look at the issue from France's perspectives, not Australia's.



#15 niggles

Posted 07 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE
One thing to be fearful of is the slow chipping away of our liberties and rights.


Amen to that.

Chip, chip...chip, chip.

#16 ~~nik~~

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:15 AM

I really couldn't care less what people where but a random question pops into my head........  If the burka is ok to wear in pubic (banks, airports etc) is it ok to wear a full faced motor bike helmut where the face is also concealed?

6 for one, half a dozen for the other.

#17 kpingitquiet

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (~~nik~~ @ 07/05/2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really couldn't care less what people where but a random question pops into my head........ If the burka is ok to wear in pubic (banks, airports etc) is it ok to wear a full faced motor bike helmut where the face is also concealed?

6 for one, half a dozen for the other.


I suppose that all depends on whether or not the helmet-wearing person in question is a member of an established and recognized helmet-wearing faith. A hobby is not the same as one's religious practice.

#18 jayare

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE (kpingitquiet @ 07/05/2010, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I know of muslim tradition, growing up in a fairly muslim-heavy area, the purpose of the niqab/veiled-burqa/chadi (the actual face-covering portion of women's clothing) may have begun as a practical measure in sandy/windy environments and was also possibly a way to conceal women of childbearing age, letting them blend with older women, to avoid kidnap when raids were common. It evolved into a commitment to modesty, outlined as very important in the Qur'an as several of Muhummad's wives covered themselves and veiled when in the presence of non-familial men.

It is not uncommon in many orthodox religions to cover one's hair, face, arms, legs, etc. for various reasons. And there are no definitve answers on whether it's God's law or not, of course. Muslim scholars/clerics disagree on the issue amongst themselves. But to many modern muslim women, they feel it is a symbol of their deep love of God and commitment to their faith, just as some nuns see their habits in a similar light, and why many jewish women cover their hair. It removes a sense of vanity, not showing one's face, theoretically allowing more thought-time for religious and family matters.

I don't feel it's my place to agree or disagree with the practice. I do not believe muslim women are more or less likely to commit crimes than any other women in the world. There are a billion ways to conceal one's face for criminal purposes--Anyone see the story on the toilet-paper wrapped robber, this week? Are we going to outlaw tp? I do believe that if we don't start treating muslims as normal, run-of-the-mill people, not suspects, we will do nothing but create more bad will and anger in the population. People have always picked on groups that were somehow different and claimed they were worse than others...Black people, immigrants, Jews, etc...it's never done anything but harm when those feelings remain high in the popular agenda.


cclap.gif  
well said.

#19 Feral like a Lemon

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Privileged @ 07/05/2010, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In Afghanistan, where women were forced to wear the burqa, most of them hated it.

In Australia, I think it is a political statement and nothing to do with freedom of religion.  Same with France.  Good on France for banning something which represents a fundamental rejection of their way of life.

If people seriously want to dress that way, then they should have stayed in countries where it is the norm.  I know some wonderful Muslim ladies.  None of them wear a hijab, much less a niqab or burqa.  Its not a religious requirement.


Is that how you feel, or is this just another inflammatory post designed to make people feel as p*ssed off as you?

#20 Flimsy*But*Fun

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE
I do think they should be prepared to be uncovered in a passport photo and to show their face to prove their identity. All the international airports I have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.
This is reasonable, I think.

Banning an article of clothing seems completely unreasonable.  If covering the face is an issue, they should ban beanies and scarves.  When I walked the streets of Paris in a November very many years ago, I had a beanie to my eyebrows and a woollen scarf pulled up past my nose!  You could only see my eyes.

#21 adandtia

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:26 AM

QUOTE
France is one of three countries in the world that are technically secular. This is, religion and the state have been very clearly seperated for a long time. It is a consitutional matter and culturally very significant. Many French catholics do not wear the cross for this reason. This also might help explain how the Burqua is seen as not conductive with French way of life.


This. I'm undecided either way but I do understand where they are coming from. Why should it not be important to keep it a secular society?
Personally, I find the burqua very confronting. Not being able to see one's face makes it very difficult to comunicate with them.


#22 ~~nik~~

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (kpingitquiet @ 07/05/2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose that all depends on whether or not the helmet-wearing person in question is a member of an established and recognized helmet-wearing faith. A hobby is not the same as one's religious practice.

The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places.  Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?


My personal opinion is live and let live.  If the burka is what they want to wear then let them wear it - much like if you want to wear a helmut all day long.



#23 niggles

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE
The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places. Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?


Bring to mind for a moment a deeply held belief that you have. I'm talking about a position that you wouldn't change and which would make you feel compromised to do so....Now imagine someone is comparing that to a trivial habit another person has and which they can change with at most a minor inconvenience.

That is the difference between a face covering which represents a moral belief and a bike helment, mask, fashion accessory etc.

#24 Oma Desala

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE
If we are going to ban the burqa - we need to ban all religious symbols.
cclap.gif

QUOTE
All the international airports I have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.
This is also done in most banks when you need to prove your identification with photo ID.  They ask you to join them in a side room so as not to offend the customer.

I have no problem with women wearing a burka.  I see it no different to wearing a star of david or crucifix.

#25 Blish

Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:42 AM

I only have one Muslim friend. She is 5th generation Australian and converted to Islam a few years ago. She wears the garb where her face is visible but the rest of her hair and clothing are covert (forgive my ignorance of what it's called - Hajib I think) and she wears this by choice. Her husband is not a Muslim.
I cannot speak for other Muslims.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Christina Aguilera announces daughter's name

Christina Aguilera and her fiance, Matt Rutler, have welcomed their daughter into the world.

Couple caught in surrogacy crackdown

An Australian couple caught up in Thailand's surrogacy crackdown have said many parents are distraught and facing dire financial difficulties as are they are unable to bring their surrogate-born babies home.

'Tired' mum dies of undiagnosed diabetes

New mum Nicky Rigby thought her exhaustion was due to the demands of looking after her baby. But the 26-year-old was seriously ill with diabetes, and died due to her condition not being diagnosed.

5 co-sleeping myths busted

In case you are co-sleeping with your baby, and all the ?helpful? advice from others is sending you down the slippery slope of self-doubt, let?s bust a few myths on the topic.

When pregnancy takes you down memory lane

One mum-to-be discovers pregnancy hormones can give rise to some surprising emotions.

What?s your love language?

The secret to making your partner feel special is to know which language of love they favour ? and it?s the same for your kids, too.

Returning to exercise after a caesarean

I had my daughter four months ago via caesarean, and I want to get back into exercise. What are some good first steps I can take?

20 signs of a great relationship

The secret to a perfect relationship is admitting you are wrong after an argument, five kisses a day and sex twice a week, a new survey suggests.

Video: emotional 60-second Robin Williams tribute

Take a minute to remember some of the greatest films of your childhood ... and have a few tissues close at hand.

The realities of escaping domestic violence

?Why doesn?t she just leave?? is the common question people ask when trying to understand domestic violence. For many, leaving the relationship is far from straightforward.

Home truths: the DIY dos and don'ts

A professional renovator gives advice on which jobs you should do yourself, and which you should outsource.

Parenting lessons I?ve yet to learn

Instead of writing about the stuff I do know since becoming a mum, I thought I'd share some of the things I don't. These are the lessons that motherhood hasn't taught me.

Will I be wrecked 'down there' after birth?

Did you worry about how you would look "down there" after giving birth? This mum-to-be found plenty of women willing to share their knowledge.

The new weekend playgroup for working mums

Playgroups are great for kids and parents alike - but the downside is that they often meet during the week, leaving working mums out of the loop.

Letting your toddler be the boss at bedtime

Sick of spending hours trying to get your toddler to sleep? These experts say giving your child more of a say at bedtime might be the answer.

7 mistakes old hands make with new babies

As I sat across the table from my friend ? me, a seasoned mother of three; her, a brand new mum ? I thought of all the mistakes an old-hand parent can make when visiting a newborn baby.

Ezra's tragic death not in vain, mum says

Little Ezra was a "Harry Houdini" who loved trying to escape the family home. Now, after his tragic death, his parents are doing what they can to help others.

Consulting 'Dr Google' when you're pregnant

We're all guilty of turning to the internet for a quick answer when we need medical advice, but Dr Google should be approached with caution - especially when you're pregnant.

Win back some precious time and get FREE coupons

Membership to eBay's Bubs? Corner is free and includes a $10 coupon to spend on nappies each month - a win for multitasking mums!

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Win back some precious time and get FREE coupons

Membership to eBay's Bubs? Corner is free and includes a $10 coupon to spend on nappies each month - a win for multitasking mums!

Do you suffer from Precious Firstborn Syndrome?

Testing ?no more tears? shampoo in your own eyes, warming cucumber sticks so they're not cold straight from the fridge, waking a sleeping baby to check they?re still breathing: these are all symptoms of Precious Firstborn Syndrome.

Ezra's tragic death not in vain, mum says

Little Ezra was a "Harry Houdini" who loved trying to escape the family home. Now, after his tragic death, his parents are doing what they can to help others.

7 mistakes old hands make with new babies

As I sat across the table from my friend ? me, a seasoned mother of three; her, a brand new mum ? I thought of all the mistakes an old-hand parent can make when visiting a newborn baby.

Video: When adults act like children

Ever wondered what would happen if adults were allowed to act like children? This dad's hilarious video clip will give you an idea of what life would be like.

Mums hit hardest as flu cases skyrocket

The number of confirmed cases of influenza in Australia has doubled the number for the same time last year - and women are 25 per cent more likely to get it.

The mum who had four babies in nine months

Feeling exhausted due to the demands of caring for a baby? Imagine the life of this mum, who gave birth to three boys and one girl in just nine months.

Everything baby at Big W

Lowest prices on everything baby, only at Big W. Sale starts August 4 and ends August 20 2014.

Smiggle is painting the town red!

We have 3 Red Smiggle prize packs to give away! Enter by posting a photo of something red to your Instagram.

Mum gives birth at school

Chinese manufacturers tap into the cute factor with tree-grown babies.

Personalised baby gifts

We've scoured the internet to find gorgeous personalised keepsakes and nursery decor to record baby name and dates. They make great gifts for christenings, name days and birthdays! (All prices in AU.)

 

Mind, body, beauty, life

Making time for me

We look at your wellbeing, covering health, relationships, beauty and fashion, mind and body.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.