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circumcision


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#51 Soontobegran

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE
The OP may be coming to EB to seek people experiences with doctors so she can make an informed choice about which one to go to. She may have already done months of research and made her decision, just need someone recommended to go to.



That is simply not possible because IF she was coming to EB to ask who to go to AFTER she has "done months of research" she would be doing so CONTRARY to her research rolleyes.gif
Any research would have led to her being informed that circumcision has been deemed unnecessary cosmetic surgery as there is no country in western society whose circumcision rate has not fallen by at least 60 % in the last 30 years. Hmmm, what does that say to you?
When the rate of circumcision needing to be done in later life due to medical reasons is at 1-100 then I would imagine that circumcising 100 boys to ensure the one that needs to be circ'd is done would seem ludicrous to anyone with one ounce of common sense.
This is particularly true as Circumcision is not without signifiant risk and TBH I do not get why a parent is allowed to make a decision on behalf of their son to lop off a piece of skin which is intended to be there without repercussion when lopping off any other part of their child's body "just in case' or " because it looks better" or because "my religion demands it" would see them arrested and charged.
Let's be honest, the greater majority of people who circumcise their sons when it is not a religious reason do so because they like the look of it or they naively believe it is 'cleaner' or 'he needs to look like dad'

Just for anyone who has never seen a circumcision or for those who like to believe it is without trauma to the baby, just watch this link and then try to justify it !

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

#52 Pink Blossom

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:18 AM

QUOTE
Just for anyone who has never seen a circumcision or for those who like to believe it is without trauma to the baby, just watch this link and then try to justify it !

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/


I daren't look, I don't want to have nightmare's.  I can only imagine how awful it is, I don't need to see it.

#53 Mrs.Brown

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:19 AM

Arrrrrrrgh! Not this again.

OP, just one word for your question - GOOGLE

Actually, 5 words - GOOGLE, AND PLEASE DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#54 Soontobegran

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:20 AM

QUOTE
I am more than happy to be corrected, and told that this is a rarity


It IS a rarity yyes.gif

#55 Lightning_bug

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:23 AM

Definately not a decision to be made flippantly.

After watching my bother's circumcision (not the actual event but what he went through after) it was an incredibly hard decision for me.  

From what a lot of people are saying it should have been an easy one.  After all there's was only a 1% chance that would happen to my son but still... it caused flashbacks to my brother's experience.

So I researched and researched and studied and while all the the research said it 'wasn't necessary' other than opinion, I couldn't find a legitimate report that said 'it shouldn't be' done.

Finally, after 12 months of dithering about trying to decide, I got the decision made for me - the docs said he was too old without a general anesthetic and I wasn't going to do that.

So it wasn't done.  I'm grateful because it took the ability to choose out of my hands.  Even now I find it hard to say whether I would have it done or not.  I honestly just don't know.

As a parent you have to do what you believe is best for your child because no one knows for absolute certain whats best for them.  Despite what anyone thinks of that decision.

#56 Soontobegran

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE
daren't look, I don't want to have nightmare's. I can only imagine how awful it is, I don't need to see it.


I don't blame you, most people do not need to see it.  I hate dragging it out but then  I see people discussing circ as if it is no more than cutting  toenails so I think it is good for those people to see it for what it is. ddown.gif

#57 QueenOfTheDesert

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:28 AM

Well said, soontobegran.

I am also too chicken to watch your video link. But I think I am already educated enough on the subject to realise it is a barbaric and unnecessary procedure. I too want to sleep tonight.

#58 Guest_BeachedAsBro_*

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:30 AM

QUOTE (soontobegran @ 15/01/2010, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't blame you, most people do not need to see it.  I hate dragging it out but then  I see people discussing circ as if it is no more than cutting  toenails so I think it is good for those people to see it for what it is. ddown.gif



Once again STBG you say & show exactly what I couldn't find the right words for! I would not have been so eloquent, hence why my previous posts have not been a strong opinion either way.

#59 Soontobegran

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE
couldn't find a legitimate report that said 'it shouldn't be' done.



It is called selective research----truly, if you really wanted to know why it 'shouldn't be done' then you simply google  " CIRCUMCISION----Morbidity and Mortality"
Believe me in my many years of 'assisiting' (ashamedly) in circumcisions and then caring for them afterwards, I have seen several baby boys whose lives have been at serious risk due to this unnecessary operation, there have been babies who have died, there are men now whom are unable to have an erection due to too much skin being removed. If that happened to be your son and you knew that you were only having him circ'd because it looks more appealing for him to look like his daddy or because you've heard of some old men having dirty dicks, then I am pretty sure you would live with regret.

#60 JoeyJojoJr

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE (pceh @ 14/01/2010, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that above question states does anyone know a doctor who does circumcisions? The question does not ask your opinions on her having her son done. Mind your own business unless asked your opinion. If this was a thread to ask your thoughts then go ahead but it wasn't.

Thanks, but I already have a mother, and she was done raising me years ago.

Sigh. Here I go again.

I will not EVER cease giving my opinion on RIC. I do not respect it, or you if you defend it. It is not your body and it shouldn't be your choice - the fact that it isn't outlawed surprises me every day.

It is a dangerous, pointless, cruel and frankly, weird practice. Any boy circ'd nowadays is likely to be the only one in his class to be so. Those are the stats.

It isn't cleaner if you observe proper hygiene.

It doesn't look better, it looks abnormal. I pray the next generations get to experience and appreciate true 'normal'.

Sex is better for the man who is intact.

It doesn't prevent STIs.

and again

IT IS NOT YOUR BODY TO COSMETICALLY ALTER.

#61 QueenOfTheDesert

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:51 AM

Shabadoo, you forgot to mention that sex is better for the partner of the intact male also. Everyone wins.

#62 Lightning_bug

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:55 AM

QUOTE (soontobegran @ 15/01/2010, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is called selective research----you simply google " CIRCUMCISION----Morbidity and Mortality"


It's not exactly 'selective' research.  Just terminology.  Had I known to research that exact term then I would have(in Australia I'm assuming because third world results aren't exactly relevant).

I looked up fatality as a result of.... and death as a result of.... but didn't use those words.

Results of that terminology:

* A 1970s  report on 200 circumcisions... comes to the conclusion it shouldn't be done because it's not necessary.

* Benefits and risks of circumcision.E. Warner and E. Strashin (1981)
A report that says it's not 1% but 10% of boys which will need it later in life.
"Circumcising the newborn facilitates penile hygiene, prevents cancer of the penis and decreases the incidence of genital herpes in later life. Whether it decreases the incidence of cancer of the cervix is still uncertain. More important, neonatal circumcision is associated with much lower morbidity and mortality and with lower costs than therapeutic circumcision. Thus, prophylactic circumcision is recommended for the male population as a whole."


* Doctors Opposing Circumcision
Genital Integrity Policy Statement 2008

Says nothing about mortality.

* in America they have a high infant mortality rate which has been tentatively attached to circumcision.


............not that I'm disagreeing but I can assure you my research wasn't selective just that there is not a lot of information unless it's on biased 'for circumcision' or 'against circumcision' websites.

It does make it hard to get objective information.  And still I haven't found one that says you shouldn't do it for any reason other than it doesn't have to be done.

#63 Lightning_bug

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:57 AM

QUOTE (shabadoo @ 15/01/2010, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will not EVER cease giving my opinion on RIC. I do not respect it, or you if you defend it. It is not your body and it shouldn't be your choice - the fact that it isn't outlawed surprises me every day.


Then surely you must understand shabadoo - you'll get the respect you give.\

#64 Guest_cathode_*

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:58 AM

QUOTE (Robbie @ 14/01/2010, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh goody, the first circ thread for 2010...


Well, EB did go a WHOLE week or 2 without a circ thread ... maybe Xmas made people feel generous and non-mutilating original.gif

#65 JoeyJojoJr

Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:03 AM

QUOTE (Nightinggale @ 14/01/2010, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then surely you must understand shabadoo - you'll get the respect you give.\

I'm absolutely fine with that. I don't tend to seek respect from those who participate in mutilating children's genitals.

#66 Mrs.Brown

Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:15 AM

Just saw that the OP has a very very low post count for a 2004 member. I might just go and trawl her history. Cant sleep anyway, as DH is waiting for the little sh*t who tried to steal his car a while ago tonight to come back and get his shoes he left on the road while trying to get our car.

Great! A circ thread and a DH hell bent on trying to catch a thief!! What a combination.

#67 Soontobegran

Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE
Results of that terminology:

* A 1970s report on 200 circumcisions... comes to the conclusion it shouldn't be done because it's not necessary.

* Benefits and risks of circumcision.E. Warner and E. Strashin (1981)
A report that says it's not 1% but 10% of boys which will need it later in life.
"Circumcising the newborn facilitates penile hygiene, prevents cancer of the penis and decreases the incidence of genital herpes in later life. Whether it decreases the incidence of cancer of the cervix is still uncertain. More important, neonatal circumcision is associated with much lower morbidity and mortality and with lower costs than therapeutic circumcision. Thus, prophylactic circumcision is recommended for the male population as a whole."


Ahhh but you are citing something that was relevant in the 70's and 80's when circumcision was stll quite prevalent,
I have included just one of the many sites which discuss mortality and morbidity.



[edit] Complications
Complication rates ranging from 0.06% to 55% have been cited;[128] more specific estimates have included 2-10%[51] and 0.2-0.6%[12][60].

According to the American Medical Association (AMA), blood loss and infection are the most common complications, but most bleeding is minor and can be stopped by applying pressure.[12] A survey of circumcision complications by Kaplan in 1983 revealed that the rate of bleeding complications was between 0.1% and 35%.[129] A 1999 study of 48 boys who had complications from traditional male circumcision in Nigeria found that haemorrhage occurred in 52% of the boys, infection in 21% and one child had his penis amputated.[130]


A penis that has been circumcised.
A penis that has not been circumcised.One study looking at 354,297 births in Washington State from 1987-1996 found that immediate post-birth complications occurred at a rate of 0.2% in the circumcised babies and at a rate of 0.01% in the uncircumcised babies. The authors judged that this was a conservative estimate because it did not capture the very rare but serious delayed complications associated with circumcisions (eg, necrotizing fasciitis, cellulitis) and the less serious but more common complications such as the circumcision scar or a less than ideal cosmetic result. They also stated that the risks of circumcision "do not seem to be mitigated by the hands of more experienced physicians".[131]

Meatal stenosis (a narrowing of the urethral opening) may be a longer-term complication of circumcision. It is thought that because the foreskin no longer protects the meatus, ammonia formed from urine in wet diapers irritates and inflames the exposed urethral opening. Meatal stenosis can lead to discomfort with urination, incontinence, bleeding after urination and urinary tract infections.[132][133][134]

Circumcisions may remove too much or too little skin.[51][135] If insufficient skin is removed, the child may still develop phimosis in later life.[51] Van Howe states that "when operating on the infantile penis, the surgeon cannot adequately judge the appropriate amount of tissue to remove because the penis will change considerably as the child ages, such that a small difference at the time of surgery may translate into a large difference in the adult circumcised penis. To date (1997), there have been no published studies showing the ability of a circumciser to predict the later appearance of the penis."[136]

Cathcart et al. report that 0.5% of boys required a procedure to revise the circumcision.[137]





#68 memeiring

Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:40 AM

When I was pregnant and found out we were having a boy I immediately assumed that circumcision was the "healthy", "right" thing to do. I posted a thread (on another site) asking when it should be done.

Thank God for the mommies on there who shared their opinions and stopped me making a huge mistake. After reading the responses and googling it we chose NOT to have him done and I am so, so happy about our decision.

It's his body and he can decide if he wants a body part pierced, tattooed or removed. My job is simply to teach him good hygiene.

#69 taddie

Posted 15 January 2010 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE (memeiring @ 15/01/2010, 02:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I was pregnant and found out we were having a boy I immediately assumed that circumcision was the "healthy", "right" thing to do. I posted a thread (on another site) asking when it should be done.

Thank God for the mommies on there who shared their opinions and stopped me making a huge mistake. After reading the responses and googling it we chose NOT to have him done and I am so, so happy about our decision.

It's his body and he can decide if he wants a body part pierced, tattooed or removed. My job is simply to teach him good hygiene.

hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif hheart.gif

I have two brothers, one born two years after me and one born 15 years after. My closest brother is circumcised and the younger one is not. Times changed enough as did education in just those few years for her to realise what she was agreeing to. She has outright apologised to the older one who says he isn't worried at all, as most circumcised men do not seem to be. But who knows what hidden scars that early pain inflicted on his psyche.  


#70 Jupiter

Posted 15 January 2010 - 04:50 AM

I know this topic has gone well beyond the OP's question but please remember that discussing doctors in the forums (including seeking or offering recommendations) is not allowed.

I have removed one post which included names and contact details.

#71 Guest_Hi-jinx_*

Posted 15 January 2010 - 06:50 AM

Youse r all b**ches.


If the bubz mum wants it done it none of ur buisness.


Happy mummsy= happy bubsy

wink.gif tongue.gif

Edited by Hi-jinx, 15 January 2010 - 06:51 AM.


#72 wifey101

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:08 AM

QUOTE
Youse r all b**ches.


If the bubz mum wants it done it none of ur buisness.


Happy mummsy= happy bubsy


Informed Mumsy = Happy Bubsy (Can't believe I just wrote Mumsy and Bubsy... what are we 5??)

OP
Do your research. Then make an informed choice.

Edited by wifey101, 15 January 2010 - 07:09 AM.


#73 Guest_Hi-jinx_*

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:13 AM

laughing2.gif

Edited by Hi-jinx, 15 January 2010 - 07:17 AM.


#74 Guest_Hi-jinx_*

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:15 AM

I was being sarcastic.


Pointing out how ridiculous it is to circ. another human , to cut off a healthy functioning piece of skin, because of something that you want.


Jeez,


DS isn't circumsiced, DH is, we had many an argument about getting him done. I was adament it was my sons choice to make, NOT mine.

Edited by Hi-jinx, 15 January 2010 - 07:20 AM.


#75 wifey101

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:20 AM

You need to use a sarcastic icon!  It really wasnt clear....
Sarcasim Icon

I'm so relieved!




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