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Non-vaccinated kids discussion #8


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#1 Chelli

Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:53 PM

Hi everyone,
Here is a new thread for you original.gif.  
Link to last thread:
http://members.essentialbaby.com.au/index....c=614167&st=160

As always:

Please note: This thread is a supportive thread for people choosing not to vaccinate. There are many other areas of EB for people with opposing opinions to discuss them, so I would ask that this thread stays a supportive one. If you have any issues about this, please PM me.

I have noticed that there have been a few questions arising from recent media attention to the vaccination issue. Please keep in mind that this thread is for people who choose not to vaccinate their children for reasons they are not obliged to discuss or justify. I would ask that members respect this thread for the reasons it was originated.

Please also note: I have just lost half of my house in a recent storm, so will not be online very often until further notice. If any situations arise, please contact Admin directly or you will be able to leave a message in the Messages To Mod and Admin forum.

Kind regards
Chelli

#2 Taurean

Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:59 PM

Thanks Chelli sorry to hear about your house

#3 mumofesther

Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:14 AM

Oh no Chelli sad.gif  I'm so sorry to hear about your house.  I hope you have some friends and family nearby that can help while things are rough?  Thinking of you all.

#4 ReneS

Posted 28 April 2009 - 02:30 PM

Thought i'd come in here and ask for some advice.....

All 3 of my kids go to daycare on a Wednesday, anyway i just a call from the DC who said there was a child in DS#2 room last Wednesday who has whooping cough (they just found out) and my kids can't go tomorrow as they arn't vax'd (which is definately fine by me)

Anyway, i have been giving my boys collodial silver and olive leaf extract for the past few days, as they both have a little bit of a runny nose, nothing terrible, just didn't want it to come out to anything more as there are alot of colds going around.

The carer at the DC said my kids might need to go on AB and i said, no, they'll be right laughing2.gif
I'm not freaking out or anything, i just don't want to be judged from my vax'd friends who KNOW i don't vax and say something negative, so really hoping they don't get WC at all.
Supposedly it takes 21 day before the WC comes out so the DC carer said to me.

[removed request for medical advice]

#5 acemummy

Posted 29 April 2009 - 11:58 AM

HI everyone, I was just reading the previous thread and a ad very C 7 Sunday came on apparently challenging vaccinations. So that will be interesting, though probably one sided to the ' must vaccinate side'  ph34r.gif

I must admit though, the Whooping cough thing is a worry, my DD has had her first immunizations but not the 6, 12 or 18 month ones.  I have a baby due in Aug and even if we all got vaccinated, ( taking the chance) there is still the chance of bub coming into contact with it from others.

#6 -river-

Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:55 PM

Just a couple of questions about what your child takes such as vit C tablets, probiotics etc.

Currently DD is just taking a multivitamin and probiotics around immunisation time but I was considering a vit C tablet aswell on a regular basis but would that be too much?

Also currently I don't do anything for DS except probiotics during vaccination time (delayed vaccine schedule)

#7 ReneS

Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:13 PM

Thanks Mel!

#8 MelDV

Posted 29 April 2009 - 08:35 PM

MRBM

Now that it is winter... its freezing here in melb... my kids - well my hypochondriac 4 year old anyway - are on chewable vitamin C, probiotics, olive leaf extract and whatever homeopathic is suitable, and I've just gone back to the homeoprophylaxis schedule after being slack for a while.

Mel

#9 Taurean

Posted 29 April 2009 - 10:13 PM

Do any of you guys do Zinc? I have read that Hillary Butler recomends that but was worried about using too much. I give the kids Vit C,probiotics(metaganic brand),multivit,fish oil every day then echinacia if have cold,homeopathic remedies and have my youngest son on the homeoprophylaxis schedule.
I have read somewhere else with this swine flu would any you guys get the vaccinations if there was a major outbreak in Australia?

#10 Guest_**KM**_*

Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:07 PM

We give Vit C, pro-biotics (metagenics as well, practitioner prescribed is stronger than normal chemist ones) and homeopathics.

DD2 has had a cold in the last few weeks and fought it off quick but she had a cough that wasn't shifting and was annoying her when she slept (with the flem sitting in her throat).  I hadn't started her on Vit C as yet as she still isn't even taking solids but I went to the health food shop and they gave me some Vit C in powder form which I mixed with water and spoon fed it to her (and then cup fed her tonight).  Amazingly after the first dose last night she did not cough at all last night  oomg2.gif  Now I am a big believer in natural medicine but even I was shocked it worked that quick .... oh and I gave her the 12 yr old dose (the health food shop guy told me to halve it but I knew that high doses of Vit C is what fights off infection and if I gave her too much she'd just poo it out  wink.gif ).

#11 -river-

Posted 02 May 2009 - 12:29 AM

Thanks for that.

Also what brands of vit c? Multi vitamins? Is best

#12 Taurean

Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:07 AM

I give the Vit C Blackmores chewable as it's easier.

[links removed]

#13 Guest_**KM**_*

Posted 02 May 2009 - 12:37 PM

I use Melrose Vit C as that was the one that was in powder form at the health food shop  original.gif  With vitamins I try and get naturopathically prescribed stuff (metagenics, medi herb, nutrition care, orthoplex - just a few of the brands I have had) when I go to my naturopath but if I can't I try and stick with Blackmores as my naturopath says they are one of the best store bought brands  original.gif

#14 MelDV

Posted 02 May 2009 - 01:23 PM

Luckily I can get practitioner brands as an (almost) qualified naturopath. Vit C is one that is relatively fine in most supplements - you can buy bulk for cheap at health food stores. With most other supplements practitioner brands tend to be better - some can be sold in health food shops, my local certainly does. Bioceuticals has great probiotics - they have a kiddy version called baby biotics too. I also use their fish oils - they are liquid so small doses and also come in a kiddy flavoured version.

#15 Prickly

Posted 02 May 2009 - 03:53 PM

Just in regards to the Vit C - during our whooping cough crisis, I did soooo much research on how to treat it with Vit C & everything I read indicated that the best form of Vit C was the powdered sodium ascorbate. The chewable Vit C is usually calcium ascorbate. Basically (as I understand it !) - Vit C is made up of 2 parts, and the only way to break them down so that the body can effectively use it, is to mix it with sodium. The sodium splits the ascorbate into it's 2 parts, and the body then uses the part it needs and passes the other 1/2. Calcium doesn't split the ascorbate, so the body doesn't absorb as much.
I have bought a 1kg bottle of OxyMin powder - cost me around $70 inc postage. The Melrose was about $11 for 100 grams & I was going through a pack every 2-3 days, & the packaging meant I was spilling a fair bit, so I'm finding the 1kg bottle heaps better. It should last our whole family through winter. I mix it in the kids milk & they don't mind it, and I make up a 2 litre jug of water for me that I drink throughout the day - makes the water taste a bit chalky/salty - but not unpleasant.

#16 ratbags

Posted 02 May 2009 - 03:58 PM

So Prickly can anyone buy the sodium ascorbate and Oxymin Powder?

#17 upup

Posted 02 May 2009 - 04:12 PM

I have to say do those pro vaccination thread make your blood boil. They keep calling us non vaccinators stupid, uneducated, immoral and more. Only a few of them seem to have done much research at all and are relying on marketing materials!!

Ahhhh just had to get that out!

We are non vaccinating here and only use homepathic whooping cough as it was in our area. We rely on good nutrition, fresh air and breastfeeding to keep our immunes strong. I also take Zinc and Vit C at the moment because I found breastfeeding took it out of me. I use the ethical nutrients brand - they also have a zinc test which you can get done (usually free) from your natural health provider.

#18 ratbags

Posted 02 May 2009 - 07:47 PM

Ella I truly believe each to their own, I never have nor will every criticise a parent for making an 'informed' choice. What I really struggle to get my head around is the "your child is going to make my children sick!" rhetoric, no my children won't because my children do not have measles, mumps, chicken pox, rubella, tetanus, diptheria, whooping cough, flu, rotovirus and any other one out there. I do not fear my children having normal childhood diseases because that is life living in a organism based world.

Some think that we can circumnavigate the process of pathogen life cycle's and that is all abit to controlling for me. Any person with some grey matter between their ears will release that the way to fight disease is through a complete diet full of natural vitamins, minerals and having the body in a excellent condition ready to fight any virus that may strike. This is one of the reasons that routine tonsilectomies are not performed, since the tonsils are one of the bodies first defenses against bugs.

I for one will not let my children go to school if they have fevers, squirmish tummy, dribbly nose and headaches WHY? because it is called disease control. Why put my children amongst healthy people? What the pro vaccination group fail to realise (most probably fail to appreciate as well) is that a large majority of children that do not vaccinate have some of the fewer cases of illness amongst children. Whose to say whether this is because our kiddies bodies are not having to fight the assault of manufactured pathogens invading their cells, or whether it is because our children's diets are so well balanced - parents who vaccinate their children are never made to feel like their decision is worthless or their opinion irrelevent to society because it differs to my own.

The pro vaccination group should remember the saying of "you can catch more bee's with honey than vinegar!" some people are insulting, some are propogander neurotic, some are scare mongers, some just believe that it is their right to choose what they believe in.

That being said though there are extremities to both trains of thought, my belief does not cancel their belief - it is merely my personal opinion.

Edited by ratbags, 02 May 2009 - 09:10 PM.


#19 ReneS

Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE
they have a kiddy version called baby biotics too.
i have that, it's great!

My naturapath gave me a product called kidz minerals cold and cough relief by Schuessler Tissue Salts. It's meant to be really good. She gives it to her son. She also reccomended the VitC!

Anyone watch the show last night about the immunisations? i taped it so still yet to watch it, any good?

#20 MelDV

Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:35 PM

Last nights show on 7 was shocking, they made out on the adverts that it would be a fair and impartial panel discussion on immunisation - while there were a few valid points allowed to be made, the whole thing was strongly slanted towards the pro vaccination camp. Most dissapointing, and I really wanted to slap Mike Monroe at the end.

#21 acemummy

Posted 04 May 2009 - 01:27 PM

MelDV

Yep I agree it was one sided ( the show last night). The pro vaccination people, have a face (Dana), those who choose not to vaccinate because of research etc, do not have  face,  It is dissapointing that Meryl, did not have a face with her. My DH thought she shouldn't have left it up to seven to call these people. DH said they probably called them at 4.30PM Friday. or some other late time.

It would be good if another channel had something on.

#22 Prickly

Posted 04 May 2009 - 01:42 PM

Ratbags - just realised my post was a bit confusing - Oxymin is the brand of Sodium Ascorbate (Vit C) - I got it from here
If 4 of you wanted to do a group buy, it would work out at around $60 for a kg bottle. I don't need anymore this winter, but it looks like a few on here are looking to buy some.
Otherwise THIS site seems to be a slightly cheaper option.

Last nights show was an ambush on Meryl Dorey. Even my husband, who doesn't really understand where I am coming from with my vaccination opinions commented on what a bad piece of work the whole thing was. I don't think it did any harm to the AVN movement though - even though it was slanted towards vaccinations, the inability of the professor to directly answer any question was obvious. I think he did his argument some harm when he was trying to make a point about dying from measles side effects 20 years later - he admitted that there have been no measles deaths in Australia since 1950.

Edited by Prickly, 04 May 2009 - 01:42 PM.


#23 Guest_Cat©_*

Posted 04 May 2009 - 07:04 PM

Someone slap me.

I have thoughts running through my mind agian about vaccinating the boys up to schedule.

I get a case of the guilts everytime that anti/pro vac debate comes up and I always end up feeling so guilty that I want to vax them. Then I think about the what ifs
"what if JOshua stopped breathing again" "what if the atusim got worse""what if the managed to pass the whooping cough to Noah or Ethan somehow"  cry1.gif all the what ifs!!!

So someone please slap me and tell me that not vaccinating is not evil, I am not an evil person and that I am doing what I feel is best for my children.

I hate how I allow the government and these silly shows to make me feel like the anti christ.

I know my own mother would kill me if I vaccinated them!! She watched the decline herself, she also has had severe reactions, so why do I feel so guilty?

cry1.gif I coudlnt stop crying watching that story about the beautiful little Dana that died recently  cry1.gif

#24 Prickly

Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:00 PM

For Cat  ddoh.gif  ddoh.gif That is your forehead slap !

I shed a few tears about poor little Dana as well.  I can't help but think though, if she might have had  a fighting chance of beating WC if her treatment had been with Vit C instead of a barrage of antibiotics. I read something today that her father had written about her having a double blood transfusion, the poor mite must have had multi-organ failure, probably from her liver being overloaded from the WC toxins and then ecoli toxins after her gut was stripped from the antibiotics. I know my first knee jerk reaction when my baby had WC was to give antibiotics - I'm forever thankful that I took a step back from this initial reaction and embarked on alternative treatment. (not in any way judging the course of treatement that Dana's parents chose  - they did what any parent would do in the circumstances if they weren't aware of the benefits of alternative medicine)

#25 localyokel

Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:48 AM

I just find the whole 'debate' frustrating.  I saw the show the other night it was definately false advertising about the 'cases' on the adverts there was a sheaf of papers supposedly going to give the medical profession grief, but on the show there was neither a case in person nor any paper cases, and the doctor wasnt asked to discuss any 'sheaf' of cases!  The Dr stated that of course no vaccine was without risks and none would work totally for everyone, but when he was asked specifically 'what are the risks' he did not answer that!  He went on with a lot of other stuff but he did not give the risks of vaccinating. Did he not know what they were? why wouldnt he say?  it looked like a put up job to me, worked out in advance with mike's team, the dr etc.  But then i reminded myself that i never watch that show usually because its always like that.  
I dont want to convince other people what they should do, i chose my way for my reasons, i've spoken with two dr.s during the kids earlier years so that i could get a conscientious objection form.  
Something that would be interesting to know is when was this newest vaccine introduced and what are the figures since then for whooping cough in particular?  It seems to me that there is a large increase in whooping cough and has it been growing steadily since the new vaccine?  I'd love to see figures on that;  i dont think there are more 'non-vaccinators' recently i think that people are just more likely to tell people now, so i dont think there is more unvacc'd people spreading it - in fact now that healthworkers have been steadily being vacc'd to stay in work over the last 5 years or so, and the teenagers being vacc'd at school en masse, there may be more vacc'd people over the total population than before - certainly now that grandparents and carers are included in that - since the vacc'd people are also catching it and spreading it it seems unfair to blame the unvacc'd for it all.  Ali




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