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First job - 13.5 yrs old


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#1 Sunshine streaming

Posted 12 January 2020 - 05:57 PM

My son has been offered a job delivering flyers to houses in the neighbourhood. It will pay $130 per 1K flyers. He has signed up to do 3 x 1K in the next month. The job is casual, so he may be offered more work during the year, but is unlikely to take too much on, so will not earn more than a thousand or so for the year.

Does he need a tax file number?
Does he need an ABN?

The employer said it is contract work, so it is his responsibility to sort out own tax responsibilities and that she will pay money directly into his bank account (no cash).

Has anyone else's teen done similar work, paper run etc?

#2 YumChaTheSecond

Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:10 PM

Wouldn't this low an income fall under the tax free threshold? From what I've read delivering catalogues is a lot of work for very low return.

*Disclaimer: not an accountant

#3 Dianalynch

Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:16 PM

My understanding is he will need an abn (which he will need to advise the employer of so they don’t withhold 50%) and a tfn for tax time. He will be taxed at the same rate as an adult. So when he does his return, as long as he’s under the threshold he won’t pay tax. Based on the income amount he will not need to register for gst. No issues with him doing what is effectively a paper round at 13 years old in my state which is vic.

however I’m not a professional and could well be wrong - just my guess as I work as a contractor

#4 Sunshine streaming

Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:31 PM

View PostDianalynch, on 12 January 2020 - 06:16 PM, said:

My understanding is he will need an abn (which he will need to advise the employer of so they don’t withhold 50%) and a tfn for tax time. He will be taxed at the same rate as an adult. So when he does his return, as long as he’s under the threshold he won’t pay tax. Based on the income amount he will not need to register for gst. No issues with him doing what is effectively a paper round at 13 years old in my state which is vic.

however I’m not a professional and could well be wrong - just my guess as I work as a contractor

The employer has stated that she won't be withholding tax, it is up to the individual to sort themselves out. I think she may be incorrectly managing the payments, but is that my issue? Seems like a lot of effort to get an ABN and TFN when he won't be earning enough money to need to pay tax.

#5 Expelliarmus

Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:32 PM

IIRC, when I did this, I didn’t need either. I already had a TFN but I don’t recall using it for the delivery work. I have never had an ABN so don’t need that. They didn’t take tax out as I recall. It’s the same when I contract to the education department as a NAPLaN marker. I don’t need an ABN because of the type of contractor I am and they don’t tax me, I have to add it to my tax return to be taxed.

Edited by Expelliarmus, 12 January 2020 - 06:33 PM.


#6 tinselfoil hat

Posted 12 January 2020 - 07:33 PM

A 13 year old contractor? Sounds like a pretty significant power imbalance which can be a red flag for sham contracting, where the employer tells the employee they’re a contractor in order to avoid paying minimum wage

http://www.fairwork....s-and-employees

#7 Sunshine streaming

Posted 12 January 2020 - 10:37 PM

View Posttinselfoil hat, on 12 January 2020 - 07:33 PM, said:

A 13 year old contractor? Sounds like a pretty significant power imbalance which can be a red flag for sham contracting, where the employer tells the employee they’re a contractor in order to avoid paying minimum wage

http://www.fairwork....s-and-employees

The rates are well above the minimum age for a person of his age. I have no concerns around power imbalance, all emails are to me and my son, it is understood that she will give him a go at this very simple job that he is more than grateful for the opportunity.

#8 Dianalynch

Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:23 PM

View PostSunshine streaming, on 12 January 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

The employer has stated that she won't be withholding tax, it is up to the individual to sort themselves out. I think she may be incorrectly managing the payments, but is that my issue? Seems like a lot of effort to get an ABN and TFN when he won't be earning enough money to need to pay tax.

I was referring to no ABN withholding, not payg tax withholding.

#9 Expelliarmus

Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:37 PM

That’s a pretty standard agreement for delivering pamphlets/flyers to houses.

#10 Chocolate Addict

Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:17 AM

Not sure what state you are in but most would be similar I am guessing (this is Victorian)

https://www.youthcen...ur-minimum-wage

As exciting as it sounds to be earning money, it is really rubbish money for the amount of work you have to do. I did it years ago. It usually involves the whole family folding and delivering, you need to do them by a set date, even if it is raining etc...

On the plus, it is a good way to get some exercise. :)

#11 Expelliarmus

Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:40 AM

One of the ways they get around it is by saying that the delivery should take x number of hours. The rate looks great then. Given it takes more than twice the time they ever say it’s rubbish money in the end. Delivery of 1000 flyers will take an age.

#12 tinselfoil hat

Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:27 AM

Also you need to factor in super and insurance in case he’s injured on the job. But if it ticks all those boxes then that’s great.

#13 Hollycoddle

Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:31 AM

I steer any of the young people I work with away from any contracting-type jobs.  Way too much hassle to set up ABN, pay tax and super/insurance, especially a job that as a PP has pointed out, is very little return for effort. Better to just find a job working for someone else.

Edited by Hollycoddle, 13 January 2020 - 08:35 AM.


#14 too tired to care

Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:51 AM

The best way to make any money from this is to arrange to deliver the local papers with a bunch of pamphlets.
That way you can fold the pamphlets into the papers and they are delivered weekly and you get paid for the papers, and the pamphlets, rather than just one.

As others have said, it takes the whole family to assist to fold ,etc and then to deliver, even when raining. Most people who do this in my area deliver via car- throw them out the back window as they slowly drive around, although that is with papers and pamphlets.

These jobs are designed to under pay people for the work they do and they contract to get away with the rate of pay and the other issues such as WHS, tax, super.
It is exploitation and usually the vulnerable in our society such as the young, or those on a pension (disability or ageing) end up doing it for a little extra cash.

Yes it will give him some money but it is certainly not a fair wage and you might find he would be better to work at McDonalds or somewhere else

#15 lizzzard

Posted 13 January 2020 - 11:33 AM

View PostHollycoddle, on 13 January 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

I steer any of the young people I work with away from any contracting-type jobs.  Way too much hassle to set up ABN, pay tax and super/insurance, especially a job that as a PP has pointed out, is very little return for effort. Better to just find a job working for someone else.
Actually I would say this advice is pretty short sighted. More and more young people (ie in their twenties) are creating portfolio careers which effectively involve working for themselves and others as contractors. The earlier they start learning about how it all works the better. Getting an ABN really isn’t difficult at all.

#16 ECsMum

Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:42 PM

My nieces did this job for about 5 years with the help of their father.  It's more than just the money - it's lessons in discipline and commitment.  They did OK out of it and managed to save thousands.

#17 PoolsideMasterchef

Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:46 PM

View Posttinselfoil hat, on 12 January 2020 - 07:33 PM, said:

A 13 year old contractor? Sounds like a pretty significant power imbalance which can be a red flag for sham contracting, where the employer tells the employee they’re a contractor in order to avoid paying minimum wage

http://www.fairwork....s-and-employees

My friends daughter was doing pamphlet delivery and it was similar.  She quit a few months back because they cut the rates of pay. Apparently heaps of people quit because it wasn't even covering their petrol to pick the pamphlets up!  I hope the OPs son has a better experience.

#18 PoolsideMasterchef

Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:51 PM

View Posttoo tired to care, on 13 January 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

The best way to make any money from this is to arrange to deliver the local papers with a bunch of pamphlets.
That way you can fold the pamphlets into the papers and they are delivered weekly and you get paid for the papers, and the pamphlets, rather than just one.

Off topic but we no longer really have local papers here!  They do a couple that each cover several council areas and you pick them up at foodland or the library.  I gather the readership was very low so environmentally its a good thing.

#19 too tired to care

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:06 PM

View PostPoolsideMasterchef, on 13 January 2020 - 02:51 PM, said:

Off topic but we no longer really have local papers here!  They do a couple that each cover several council areas and you pick them up at foodland or the library.  I gather the readership was very low so environmentally its a good thing.
Thats wonderful. I wish this would happen in our local area but as it has a relatively high ageing population they are unlikely to disappear from our way for some time.

#20 ECsMum

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:19 PM

View PostPoolsideMasterchef, on 13 January 2020 - 02:46 PM, said:

My friends daughter was doing pamphlet delivery and it was similar.  She quit a few months back because they cut the rates of pay. Apparently heaps of people quit because it wasn't even covering their petrol to pick the pamphlets up!  I hope the OPs son has a better experience.

The bundles were dropped off at my nieces house so at least they didn't have that petrol cost.

#21 Dianalynch

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:32 PM

whether or not it's a good rate can also depend on the density of housing - around where i live which is medium density (with some high) it takes 1.5 hours to deliver around 400 letters...i do a lot of this during election campaigns...once i had to deliver them in a different suburb which was low density and hilly, 400 letters took 2.5 hours. it was good exercise though.

#22 amdirel

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:46 PM

View PostHollycoddle, on 13 January 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

Better to just find a job working for someone else.

I heard this a lot when DD was considering doing pamphlet delivery. It might very well be crappy money... but OP's child is 13, where else are they going to get a job at??!




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