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Difference between catholic, high Anglican, low Anglican etc.


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#51 Riotproof

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:01 PM

It did feel very insincere to me. But I wondered if I was just being harsh.

#52 Bandwagon

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:03 PM

View PostEsmeLennox, on 30 December 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:



Ewwww.

I thought this kind of thing was largely gone from mainstream religious marriages. I know my mother caused a bit of a flurry in the early 60s for refusing to include the word ‘obey’ in her wedding vows, and I’ve never attended a wedding service where I’ve heard it used.

The last wedding I went to was full of it. Catholic wedding. I wanted to walk out.

#53 RichardParker

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:31 PM

I know what you mean, LB- they’re doing a modern take on the Little House on the Prairie model.  I think deep down they actually just want to feel safe and belong in their community, so they play a role - we all do it to an extent.

#54 Krio

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:44 PM

View from an outsider here. My FIL in law from Brisbane is an Anglican minister. We live in Sydney and when we started dating 17ish years ago, some of my Sydney Anglican friends commented on how conservative his High Church family would be.

Yes, the services are more traditional that Sydney services that I've attended. They wear robes, use candles and incense, have weekly communion and sing more tradition hymns but their views are far from conservative. Outside of Sydney, I've encountered women ministers, gay  and lesbian ministers and much more inclusion and acceptance.

Sadly, there have been some very conservative and prejudiced views that we encountered in a couple of Sydney churches. Of course, I can't speak for all Sydney Anglican congregations but, even my husband found some of the views too hard to reconcile with the Anglican church he was brought up in.

Now days we only attend when with the in laws or when travelling out of Sydney in holiday times. I feel more comfortable with the views and practices of Anglicans outside of Sydney. What looks more conservative on the outside has actually offered us a more welcoming and inclusive community.

Edited by Krio, 30 December 2019 - 02:49 PM.


#55 quartz85

Posted 30 December 2019 - 03:06 PM

It may just depend on what service you attended. Many Anglican churches have a traditional service, with the prayer book, old style hyms and a contemporary service that is more modern.

#56 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 30 December 2019 - 03:47 PM

View PostRichardParker, on 30 December 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

I know what you mean, LB- they’re doing a modern take on the Little House on the Prairie model.  I think deep down they actually just want to feel safe and belong in their community, so they play a role - we all do it to an extent.

that’s true, you’re right.

it’s hard to pinpoint exactly - it’s easy to fall back on the old cliche of - “they’re so young, they need to experience life, have some fun, have wild sex etc etc“ - i mean, maybe they should do that, i dunno, but me and all my friends did that and we’re pretty ****ed up so it’s not like that’s the answer to everything! but, i know who i was having sex with when i was 20, and i’m sure as hell glad i’m not with him now!

and they’re not downtrodden “quiverfull” wives - they aren’t having kids and they’re all at university doing interesting degrees and working.

but it just seems like they’re cutting themselves to fit a mould. and it seems so exacting on the women, and not so much on the men. (as per usual i guess).


#57 Tall Poppy

Posted 30 December 2019 - 04:01 PM

View PostLucrezia Bauble, on 30 December 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

i’m loosely connected (via cousins) with the (or i should say “an”) anglican community in sydney’s Shire (Scotty from Marketing’s country) - all quiet pious - women dress “modestly” but Stepford Wife modestly - all very pretty, makeup is worn (but nothing edgy - oh god no. all very conventional) the men all have beards in the “Hot Jesus” tradition. and they’re young - god they’re all so young, married of course - because they want to have sex. we’re talking 21, 22. no kids yet - i would say contraception is a thing. but these young women are like playing dress ups. can’t quite put my finger on it, but being round them is like they’re role playing. it doesn’t seem quite genuine.
I have a few friends\acquaintances that are Sydney Anglicans and this sums it up perfectly. They’re a bit stepford  and wearing the wrong shade of lippy sees a lot of tutting. I’m not religious but if ever decide to join a church I don’t think I could do Sydney Anglican.

#58 EsmeLennox

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:20 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 30 December 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

You'd be surprised! Both weddings couples were only mid twenties, too.

View PostBandwagon, on 30 December 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

The last wedding I went to was full of it. Catholic wedding. I wanted to walk out.

I just find this so disturbing.

#59 seayork2002

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:30 PM

View PostEsmeLennox, on 30 December 2019 - 06:20 PM, said:





I just find this so disturbing.

Sure i don't get it personally but i don't see it any more different to Hindu or Jewish weddings and some other faiths

#60 Expelliarmus

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:36 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 30 December 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

Sure i don't get it personally but i don't see it any more different to Hindu or Jewish weddings and some other faiths
Do these religions involve obedience on the part of the wife alone as part of the marriage sacrament or ceremony? I think that is the difference being noted. I don’t recall the need for wifely obedience at the Hindu ceremony I attended but it has been some time so I may have forgotten. What I remember mostly is that the new couple were wished well for the start of their new family with fertility and welcome to the family for both of them from both families. I do t recall anyone pledging to obey their husband.

Edited by Expelliarmus, 30 December 2019 - 06:38 PM.


#61 EsmeLennox

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:20 PM

I’d be equally disturbed by any wedding ceremony of any faith which required one partner (usually the wife) to be obedient as part of a promise made before the God they presumably believe in.

It’s not he religious bit, it’s the ‘obey’ and, ergo, submission bit.

Edited by EsmeLennox, 30 December 2019 - 09:21 PM.


#62 IamtheMumma

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:40 PM

Yes there are people out there who will choose to say obey and mean it.

Edit - removed potentially identifying content.

Edited by IamtheMumma, 31 December 2019 - 07:09 AM.


#63 Datrys

Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:20 AM

View PostRiotproof, on 29 December 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

I hope she will reply. I thought about pming her but decided that wasn’t fair.

I've been taking a mental health break from EB, but I'd have been happy to get such a PM.  :)

That said, I don't think I have much to add.  People have answered pretty well.  Happy to answer any specific questions where I can be helpful.

As for the obey thing; I don't offer it as an option to brides, and if they really wanted it, I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that wedding.  I have been to an Anglican wedding where the bride chose to vow to obey (and it really was her choice, not something her husband required), but thank goodness nobody has asked me to take one yet!

#64 Riotproof

Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:43 AM

Oh thanks Ange for replying.

I do think I get it now, but I don’t like it. I never thought of the Catholic Church as progressive but compared to this.. they are.

#65 Anonforthistime

Posted 01 January 2020 - 10:45 AM

Thanks Datrys and riotproof.
So is this section not moderated or doesn’t anyone bother reporting?
It’s just having had a bit of a browse, there seems to be a very strong anti Christian sentiment on EB. Certainly not welcoming and having browsed through some of the other spirituality sections, they are all a lot more respectful of different beliefs.
Is this a thing with EB?
(don’t mean to derail the thread).

#66 Datrys

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:03 AM

It's moderated, and I imagine reports will be responded to eventually.  Even our lovely mods probably get some down time over the holidays!

EB has changed over time; it's had more or less input from people of different faiths and perspectives (and styles of Christianity in particular), and more or less hostile responses to them.  At the moment I'm finding it very hostile (hence the mental health break).  I figure, though, that like all phases, this too shall pass.

#67 Expelliarmus

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:09 AM

It has to get way worse than that for me to bother reporting anymore. I have found EB to be less and less tolerant of Christian belief and sentiment. But I think the world in general is as well so perhaps not so surprising?

Edited by Expelliarmus, 01 January 2020 - 11:11 AM.


#68 Riotproof

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:14 AM

View PostExpelliarmus, on 01 January 2020 - 11:09 AM, said:

It has to get way worse than that for me to bother reporting anymore. I have found EB to be less and less tolerant of Christian belief and sentiment. But I think the world in general is as well so perhaps not so surprising?

I think since so many people have had exposure to Christianity, it’s understandable that experiences have varied and a lot of them are not good ones. Also, it’s undeniable that churches have been part of some horrible things as institutions.

#69 Expelliarmus

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:26 AM

View PostRiotproof, on 01 January 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

I think since so many people have had exposure to Christianity, it’s understandable that experiences have varied and a lot of them are not good ones. Also, it’s undeniable that churches have been part of some horrible things as institutions.
I’m not saying people aren’t justified in their feelings, only that I doubt it was reported. A number of people liked the post in question and it probably doesn’t warrant reporting or moderator response.

#70 Anonforthistime

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:39 AM

Interesting. Thanks for your responses. I can understand if this was a general forum but I thought this section would be “safer” (for want of a better word).
I too can understand people who have been hurt by mainstream religion but I guess that post was just quite nasty and hateful of people with belief in general.
I appreciate your thoughts but maybe EB is not the place for me.

#71 Riotproof

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:43 AM

If you feel it is in the wrong section, you can report it.
I wanted to ask people who I felt would be able to answer from experience, so I thought it was the right place.

#72 Expelliarmus

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:46 AM

I don’t think it’s the whole post PP is worried about. Just that one quoted.


#73 JBH

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:57 AM

Riotproof, the other thing to be aware of is that Sydney Anglican in some ways defies categorisation. In many ways it is low church - distinctly evangelical, modern music, “rousing” sermons, but sometimes similar notions happen combined with communion and robes. Sydney Anglican’s defining feature is (in my view) social conservatism dressed up as “adherence to Biblical truth” - eg  no women clergy, no same sex marriage or in many cases relationship. However it is important to note that not every Anglican living in Sydney would consider themselves a Sydney Anglican. Even some of the clergy would hope for (pray for!) change.

I’m not a Christian, but have plenty of Christian friends and we debate, mostly respectfully, reasonably often.

#74 Anonforthistime

Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:58 AM

Sorry riotproof. Your post wasn’t the issue. I thought it was a good question and I was interested in the responses having not had much exposure to high/low Anglican or catholic practices.
It was the post from IvyIvy that I had issue with.
I think if your post had been in what do
You think or miscellaneous, then it’s a free for all but still should be respectful. When questions are posted in a faith section I assumed that meant it was a section where people of different faiths could discuss their faith.

#75 JBH

Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:01 PM

View PostAnonforthistime, on 01 January 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

Sorry riotproof. Your post wasn’t the issue. I thought it was a good question and I was interested in the responses having not had much exposure to high/low Anglican or catholic practices.
It was the post from IvyIvy that I had issue with.
I think if your post had been in what do
You think or miscellaneous, then it’s a free for all but still should be respectful. When questions are posted in a faith section I assumed that meant it was a section where people of different faiths could discuss their faith.

Sorry for this tangent, but just wanted to note a segment the ABC radio ran before Christmas featuring a Christian Minister, Jewish Rabbi and a Muslim whose position I don’t remember (I think described as a spokesperson not an Imam), talking about the things they have in common. It was very respectful and really interesting, including from my atheist perspective.




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