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The right to know


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#1 Lunafreya

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:26 PM

Can I say I am very, very proud of the Australian media getting behind this? ALL OF THEM have united from the Australian to the ABC, to the Telegraph, to the Fin Review

https://www.abc.net....reedom/11621806

Well done, hope it has an impact.

#2 seayork2002

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:31 PM

But do the press actually produce the truth?

100% the truth?

#3 IamtheMumma

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:37 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

But do the press actually produce the truth?

100% the truth?

We know Murdoch papers don't.

#4 Lunafreya

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:39 PM

No, that is impossible. Anything the press say is going to have SOME bias, whether inherent or deliberate.

But what is happening is the govenment is going after the press and whistle blowers.

Can I also add that is basically an impossibility for News Limited and the ABC to agree on anything? Let along agree to be on a campaign against the government.

#5 seayork2002

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:46 PM

View PostLunafreya, on 21 October 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

No, that is impossible. Anything the press say is going to have SOME bias, whether inherent or deliberate.

But what is happening is the govenment is going after the press and whistle blowers.

Can I also add that is basically an impossibility for News Limited and the ABC to agree on anything? Let along agree to be on a campaign against the government.

Call me cynical but I do not think the media is doing this is a community service, they would have their own agenda in all this

#6 Lunafreya

Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:50 PM

OK.  I'll do it.  You're cynical.

The fact that there are journalists who actually do want to serve the public interest I guess is beyond you.

And watch Media Watch tonight.  Paul Barry WILL talk about this

#7 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:41 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

But do the press actually produce the truth?

100% the truth?

That is a whole different conversation.  But my cynicism is more reserved for this Government, who have been shown to hide the truth and find ways to avoid it coming out.  So I will back the media in this particular fight.  

Remember "on water issues"?  

I've just finished watching "The Loudest Voice".  I'm just as cynical about the media as the next person - especially when we call the people in the Murdoch press, Fox Overnight, Today Tonight etc 'journalists/reporters/news'.  

But if not for decent investigative journalism, would Pell be in gaol?  Would we know what we know about banks, race horses, nursing homes?  

You choose what you choose to read or believe.  But we have to support journalists to be able to access the news, regardless of how they present it afterwards.

#8 Ozquoll

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:45 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:



Call me cynical but I do not think the media is doing this is a community service, they would have their own agenda in all this
Sure, everyone's got an agenda. I, as a member of the media-consuming public, have an agenda - I wish to know what nasty little secrets our elected officials are keeping from us in the name of "national security". The more my agenda overlaps with that of the media, the better. The fact that news organisations also need to be profitable, and sometimes act as agents of propaganda, doesn't mean that they don't also provide the valuable service of uncovering the crimes and misdemeanours of the powerful.

#9 seayork2002

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:47 PM

View PostOzquoll, on 21 October 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Sure, everyone's got an agenda. I, as a member of the media-consuming public, have an agenda - I wish to know what nasty little secrets our elected officials are keeping from us in the name of "national security". The more my agenda overlaps with that of the media, the better. The fact that news organisations also need to be profitable, and sometimes act as agents of propaganda, doesn't mean that they don't also provide the valuable service of uncovering the crimes and misdemeanours of the powerful.

But if the media will not report that then what is the point?

I am not saying it is not a good thing but when the media actually sticks to the facts then it would make more sense

#10 Lunafreya

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:52 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

But if the media will not report that then what is the point?

I am not saying it is not a good thing but when the media actually sticks to the facts then it would make more sense
If they don't stick to facts, then they should be held to account.  As said up thread, that's a different conversation.

This isn't about if they will report, but whether they CAN without consequences.

Raids on the ABC and a journalists house, prosecuting of whistleblowers...

And the media has had chances to dish the dirty on the government, and they haven't.  Remember a private citizen got an old filing cabinet of confidential government documents at an op shop. He called the ABC, the ABC called the government

#11 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:55 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

But if the media will not report that then what is the point?

I am not saying it is not a good thing but when the media actually sticks to the facts then it would make more sense

I think you need to start a new thread if this is what you want to discuss.  It really is a totally different topic.

#12 Ozquoll

Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:57 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 21 October 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:


But if the media will not report that then what is the point?

Not sure what you mean by that Seayork. This is a thread about the Australian media fighting back against the Government's efforts to prevent them from publishing factual information that is in the public interest. They are doing this both by passing more restrictive laws on press freedom, and by intimidatory actions such as raiding the homes of journalists.

It appears to me that the Australian media *generally* has a strong commitment to publishing public-interest stories, and that the Government is deliberately acting to hamper their ability to do so. Are you arguing that the Government should be doing this, or are you arguing that the media never publishes public-interest stories anyway, or something else entirely?

#13 lizzzard

Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:07 PM

I have a professional interest in the role of transparency vs discretion in achieving outcomes that are in the public's best interests. I don't think the public's 'right to know' is always the best approach. The media plays the 'holier-than-thou' card but obviously benefit from complete access to information; similarly the politicians play their moral card as paternalistic guardians of Very.Important.Information... Both have their agendas. Am I going to applaud the media for pushing its agenda? No, but that doesn't mean I think they should be censored either, obviously. It's probably healthy for the two sides to be having the discussion publicly!

Edited by lizzzard, 21 October 2019 - 02:09 PM.


#14 Lunafreya

Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:11 PM

Some media are better than others whether to publish or not. If it is in the public interest to publish, if it hurts people for instance.

The filing cabinet story above they didn't publish what they had, they published the fact they had them.

#15 Fourteenyears

Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:29 PM

Of course the media’s campaign is self interest.   Doesn’t change the fact that it is in our interest too.  

A country where the press fears the government is not a functional democracy, and without pushback this is what we are teetering on the edge of.

The media raids, censorship, insane defamation laws, etc haven’t gone unnoticed in other countries.  Even in America, where Australia simply isn’t news, it has made the press.  We’re described as ‘the world’s most secretive democracy’.   And we’ve largely sleepwalked into it.

https://www.nytimes....list-raids.html

We would do well not to shrug this off because ‘cynical’.  It is interesting - there has been some talk by journos on twitter about whether the profession has retained enough public trust to get our support in this campaign.  Clearly they don’t have Seayork’s.

But, while acknowledging that there are issues (the Canberra press gallery’s symbiotic relationship with politicians being one of them), and the Murdoch press in general, the reporting mentioned above has been so important.

The wonderful, heartbreaking series on Nursing homes lead to a royal commission.  The reporting on wage theft lead to back pay for thousands of workers.  It was investigative journalism that lead to the Royal commission on child abuse.   The recent piece on the racing industry.    The piece about juvenile detention centres.   It is important work.

Article by article, amidst the clickbait, vested interests are being held to account, and we need to media to be free to continue to do this.

Edited by Fourteenyears, 21 October 2019 - 02:31 PM.


#16 Jane Jetson

Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:43 PM

Every system needs checks and balances. Government needs to be scrutinised, particularly when it is an evil right-wing wannabe totalitarian police state. I mean, come on. You can't look at Robodebt and the links to Indue and what they've done to that lovely family from Biloela without getting a bit suspicious that perhaps they're not governing in our best interest. A free media is absolutely vital in all this as it holds them to account.

Sure our media is nowhere near as free as it should be, given its own right-wing bias. But it's a hell of a lot better than the Ministry for Conservative Propaganda which is all we'd have if d***heads like ScoMo were governing without constraint or scrutiny.

Yes, it's a stunt. So what. Good for them. Yes, some journalists make sh*t up, but it happens a hell of a lot less than cynics like Seayork think - that's trash mag behaviour, you don't make sh*t up about the Government without getting called on it and losing credibility. The problem with journalism in this country is with its bias and its embrace of right wing opinion, not hard news that's made up out of thin air (trash mags aside).

Disclaimer: am journo and do not want to be raided by the Government. I do not make sh*t up, either.

#17 steppy

Posted 21 October 2019 - 03:29 PM

The media should fight hard for their rights and the rights of whistleblowers, for sure.

I hope they absolutely knock over the current govt agenda of being seen to be blameless no matter what they do.

#18 Cimbom

Posted 21 October 2019 - 04:46 PM

As a former journalist (and someone who hopes to return to it in the future) I completely support this. What I’m cynical about is the public giving enough of a damn to actually change anything. I hope I’m wrong because the alternative is quite scary

#19 Mmmcheese

Posted 21 October 2019 - 05:21 PM

Scott Ludlam had been doing some awareness around this. These laws have been creeping, creeping and its history repeating.




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