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Extinction Rebellion Poll


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Poll: Extinction Rebellion (306 member(s) have cast votes)

Extinction Rebellion. Yay or Nay.

  1. Yay (179 votes [58.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.50%

  2. Nay (127 votes [41.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.50%

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#26 Fahrook

Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:51 PM

View Postcan, on 09 October 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

As for the traffic jam argument, ER gives prior notice of their protests so that people can make alternate plans. The extra pollution from the traffic jams is probably minor compared to the massive impact the government can make, for example by not approving more mines and the associated pollution associated with the extraction, transport and eventual burning of the coal.

No, they are not giving prior notice about their locations in Melbourne.  It adds to the annoyance factor.  Bad luck if you need to get to a medical appointment, treatment or any other personal emergency.  At least the tram strikes are publicised so alternate plans can be made.

#27 *Nasty*Squeekums*

Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:57 PM

But dont get worked up about me having issues with ER and their methods
least I don't think they should be used as speed bumps.

https://junkee.com/k... As Speed Bumps

#28 gruidae

Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:57 PM

View Post*Nasty*Squeekums*, on 09 October 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

Weather extremes I can deal with as I can hibernate at home.
..............................
I'm looking out for me


The very young can't, The very old can't. Those with chronic health conditions can't. Children with disabilities on meds which make them heat sensitive can't. Every extreme heatwave we have, people from these groups are actually dying in droves - and that's just the human cost.

In some cities, the summer temps we're seeing make hibernating at home not an option, it's actually hotter inside your house than outside, unless you can afford aircon and hardly anyone can nowadays, it's just too expensive..

I too suffer from anxiety - it never came close to killing me. It is unpleasant, disabling at times but not actually life threatening ( or so my psychologist tells me lol). This is actually life threatening. Last summer I lost a mate with diabetes and my colleague lost both her daughter on atypical antipsyotics and husband on chemo- all during the same weekend heatwave.

Edited by gruidae, 09 October 2019 - 03:03 PM.


#29 can'tstayaway

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:02 PM

View PostPrincessPeach, on 09 October 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

They welded themselves to the main railway line between gold coast & brisbane this morning.
My reading of the news reported that someone chained themselves to the train tracks. The chains were cut and the person removed within 15mins. It caused rail disruption because they stopped the trains for that period of time.

View PostPrincessPeach, on 09 October 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

They also damaged some of the major freight lines in central qld when protesting the adani mines doing the same thing.
From memory, they blockaded the freight line which caused inconvenience to the freight line. They didn’t injure or hurt anyone.

There are people who want to sensationalise what ER are doing and make them out to be irrational and irresponsible people. They are very logical and are going about their protest in a methodical manner. The governments (state and federal) just don’t want to listen.

View PostPrincessPeach, on 09 October 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

I dont know about other places, but in Brisbane there was no information about where they were going to block, so you couldnt plan. There isnt much in the way of alternative routes in the CBD.
I’m in Brisbane and regularly in the CBD. I hear it on the radio and read about it online In the Brisbane Times etc. I have been able to adjust my travels to account for the protests. It’s only a minor inconvenience and I support what ER are doing to be heard.  

I know People irl who are so self absorbed that they are surprised each time a protest is occurring and they are late. ER is a convenient scapegoat for their own disorganisation.

#30 No Drama Please

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:05 PM

I get it Nasty I do. Anxiety sucks and it’s SAF trying to keep your sh*t together without factoring in any additional dramas you just don’t need.

I guess my thinking is how terrifying climate change is and how drastically it will change the way I live, and my children’s future. It’s literally a matter of life and death. It’s not something that might or might not happen, it’s happening now.

In an ideal world we’d have people in power who would be open to dialogue and quiet protests but we don’t have that. We don’t have a government that is responsive to climate change. Half of them don’t believe it’s even real.

So by protestors drawing attention to themselves in a dramatic way, they are showing there are people who won’t just stand by passively and do nothing. They are working towards effective change.

I agree it can be viewed as controversial and disruptive but when no action is being taken to any of the more traditional efforts why not try something else?

#31 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:06 PM

View Post*Nasty*Squeekums*, on 09 October 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:


Bullsh*t, if you believed that and meant it then you never would have wrote you object to me 'using' anxiety and then some snark about my need to be warm.
My anxiety is due to groups of people, being stuck somewhere, not being able to leave and having people all up in my space.

But yeah you like totes get it. It's this kind of crap that makes me go stuff the stupid protests.

No, it's not bullsh*t. As I said - I can only imagine.  I don't understand your anxiety, I don't really understand my DS's either - Go find the thread where I was asking for advice re my DS and my concerns about him, suicide, medication.  I've mentioned it several times on here, and I see the debilitating effect of his anxiety daily.

As I said though - that is a separate issue.  it is possible to support the protest, or the cause itself, without having to attend a protest.

What it really comes down to is whether you support climate change activism or not.  Whether you acknowledge that something needs to be done.  We can all get annoyed if our day is disrupted, but still support the reason they are doing it.

And yes, maybe I was 'snarky', but I found the comment that extreme heat and the destruction it is causing is fine with you because it means you are nice and warm to be totally offensive.   People and animals are suffering because of it.  People are putting their lives at risk to fight fires.  Eventually it is going to affect the food we can buy, supermarket prices etc too.  That will affect all of us a lot more than a crowd or traffic jam.

And if being called out for selfishness makes you think "stuff the protests", then I don't think you actually got it in the first place.

#32 Fahrook

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:11 PM

View Postgruidae, on 09 October 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

I too suffer from anxiety - it never came close to killing me.

Lucky you.

#33 **Xena**

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:18 PM

View PostFahrook, on 09 October 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:



No, they are not giving prior notice about their locations in Melbourne.  It adds to the annoyance factor.  Bad luck if you need to get to a medical appointment, treatment or any other personal emergency.  At least the tram strikes are publicised so alternate plans can be made.

It was in The Age a few days ago where they had plans to strike on Melbourne.

I don't even know where to begin on the boiling down of Climate Change to "I like hot weather and bush fires have always happened".

Pretty sure the "It's all about me" attitude has largely contributed to the mess we are in.

Edited by **Xena**, 09 October 2019 - 03:32 PM.


#34 can'tstayaway

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:19 PM

View PostRuf~Feral~es, on 09 October 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

If we had started to act on climate change 40 years ago, we would not be in the dire straights we are now.  Remember the hole in the ozone layer and greenhouse gasses?  We did too little back then, and now it's almost too late.
I’m an optimist and believe that it’s not too late if we pull our fingers out and work as a collective for change.

The ozone layer is repairing itself and when the world works together for positive action (banning CFCs) things improve. I remember the drama and fear mongering from people who didn’t want to give up their fridges or aerosol sprays. We gave them up, found alternatives and people still have fridges to keep food fresh without destroying the ozone layer.

I feel the same about all other environmental issues. There’s stuff that governments needs to do, there’s stuff we as individuals need to do and there’s communication to governments that we want them to act. Everything together will make a difference.

It’s easy to nitpick one thing eg. traffic emissions from the protests and some people dispute the benefits of bringing their own shopping bags but we are all part of a bigger picture.

#35 MrsCee

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:22 PM

We were in London during April when the Extinction Rebellion was in full force.

I did and do agree with the message but as the protests became more extreme in London it just got a good amount of the general public offside and the message was lost.

It did become what appeared to be extremist left and ended up in quite a number of arrests.

I dunno what the answer is to make governments act as I do think they need to... I think we are quickly heading to dire straights.

But I worry that these protests aren’t the way to go.

#36 Fahrook

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:45 PM

View Post**Xena**, on 09 October 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

It was in The Age a few days ago where they had plans to strike on Melbourne.

Rubbish.  It is well known that part of the XR strategy here is to not tell police where they will "swarm" for maximum disruption of business, roads and transport.  The plans only show starting points, they do not show where the random blockades of intersections or railway lines will occur.  

- https://www.theage.c...009-p52ywr.html

This has not been thought out well at all.  Many don't have an issue with the subject of the protest, just they way it is being carried out with no thought to allowing people to plan ahead and also wasting valuable police resources as a result of not advising their plans.

There are definitely better ways to get the message across to the politicians.  This doesn't work as we saw with the last federal election where we ended up with a conservative government.  The caravan in QLD gave the seats and the win to the Coalition.  People don't like being told what to do or be annoyed (regardless of how important the issue) and rightly or wrongly will vote accordingly.  

Time to think strategically rather than just employing illegal guerilla tactitics that just serve to annoy future voters.  Remember, the people that are being annoyed (instead of educated) will be voting at the next election.  XR need to engage with people better.

#37 Freddie'sMum

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:51 PM

I support them.

The weather extremes that are happening right now, are terrifying.  I struggle to understand people who deny the facts on climate change.

Ask our Pacific neighbours about rising sea levels and the total disruption to their entire communities.

Climate change is here, it's real and we need to act now.

#38 Fourteenyears

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:55 PM

Maybe we should just politely vote with our consciences, do what we can within our own lifestyles, and lobby the government for change.  Avoid disruption and inconvenience, and try to convince people with gentle logic and science.

After all, that’s been soooooooooo effective over the thirty or so years that climate change has been a known looming issue.  Why change tactics now?

#39 Nasty Poobah

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:59 PM

View PostAliasMater, on 09 October 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:


The response to Greta Thunberg had given me a mental grid-patterned dartboard with lots of (predominantly) older men on it.

The squares just got a lot smaller with all the extra people I need to fit in ::(:

#40 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:59 PM

Quote

There are definitely better ways to get the message across to the politicians.

Really?  Like what?  

A teenage girl took a stand and made a speech to the UN - they didn't listen.  Our kids have staged strikes - they just accuse them of being future bludgers.

Our country is falling so far behind others, it is shameful.  We used to be out in front.   Our politicians used to understand it.  

Politicians are only listening to the money - big business, mining, whatever will get them reelected.  

As was said earlier - women got the vote, eventually.  But what did it take?  Protest.  This is the only thing that we can do communally.  This is the only way they will hear our voice - they've proven to not listen to anything else in the past.

#41 PrincessPeach

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:01 PM

View PostFahrook, on 09 October 2019 - 03:45 PM, said:



Rubbish.  It is well known that part of the XR strategy here is to not tell police where they will "swarm" for maximum disruption of business, roads and transport.  The plans only show starting points, they do not show where the random blockades of intersections or railway lines will occur.  

- https://www.theage.c...009-p52ywr.html

This has not been thought out well at all.  Many don't have an issue with the subject of the protest, just they way it is being carried out with no thought to allowing people to plan ahead and also wasting valuable police resources as a result of not advising their plans.



Same, the only info given out here was they are storming Brisbane CBD this week. That covers a big area.

#42 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:06 PM

I'm in Perth and heard quite a few locations announced on my way home last night and way in to work this morning.  They gave intersections and a 2 hour time window to 'be prepared'.

It was on ABC radio.  Maybe it depends who you listen to and how much they care?

Edited by Ruf~Feral~es, 09 October 2019 - 04:06 PM.


#43 Fourteenyears

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:06 PM

Let’s look at what has been tried.

- government scientific advisory panels
- independent scientific advisory panels
- high level United Nations discussion
- open letters from scientists
- peaceful/non disruptive protest
- political lobbying
- politely educating the masses (I mean, please, I learned about this in school decades ago)
- pressure from industry groups (especially insurance)
- media coverage of actual events related to climate change
- media changing their language over climate science (acknowledging that there is no debate anymore, just overwhelming scientific consensus)
- the government’s beloved ‘market forces’ (Adani has shown that as non renewables become economically dodgy the government will literally prop them up at taxpayer expense.)

Anyone going ‘this protest is the wrong way to achieve something’, please, what’s the right way?   What is something that hasn’t been tried that might actually work.


#44 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

Nothing will happen until it slaps people in the face.

Victoria built a desalination plant only after we nearly ran out of water
Victoria is only now focusing on our recycling industry after the industry collapsed and rubbish fires happened.
Bushfire building standards only changed after black Saturday.  

Governments won’t do anything to prevent global warming, (and it’s too late anyway IMO) and they will only do stuff to enable us to survive it once people start dying.



#45 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:17 PM

This is worth a read - a commentary by someone who is protesting.

https://www.abc.net....is-why/11561182

Some snippets for those who don't click the link - because she is much more eloquent than I.

Quote


You wouldn't know for instance, that I am haunted by one image: the moment my children are old enough to understand the gravity of the climate crisis, and they look me in the eye and ask, "but what did you do Mummy?"

Yes, governments are failing us, but we are all complicit. The facts are quite literally a tap of a keyboard away from our discovery.

Indeed, they are splashed across the news each night.

The "fires" in sub-tropical Queensland and high-altitude rainforests of NSW.

The "drought" across eastern Australia. Loss of species so dramatic scientists are calling it Earth's sixth mass extinction.

And the most terrifying part, everything we are experiencing now was written into our destiny several years ago, due to the lag between carbon being emitted into the atmosphere and its effect on the climate.

We are in desperate times and nothing else has worked

We are stuck between past mistakes and future horrors and we pretend it all away.

We pretend it away because we are too busy, or because we feel we have no power, or because our puny imaginations can't truly grasp the meaning of the threat, or because it is just too painful to face.

Denial has become our greatest defence. But will it help our children?

I want to tell you that after much soul-searching, and endless cycling between fear, anxiety and denial ("surely our leaders will do something?"), I have come to see that my inaction is an act of betrayal committed against the people I love most in the world, my own children.


I, for one, am grateful that people like this protest on behalf of people like me.

#46 Fourteenyears

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:19 PM

The protesters aren’t out there to win hearts or make friends.  They don’t care if you are p*ssed off by them.  They know, from years of frustration, that warm-fuzzy low disruption tactics have ALREADY FAILED.

They know that the public is so disengaged that they will allow, even vote for, short sighted governments who will steer us into disaster simply to survive our stupid three year electoral cycle.

What they want is what they are getting.  THIS.  Discussion in forums, headlines, sustained news coverage.   Because for every person stupid or self centred enough to go ‘wow, they inconvenienced me, I might go out and trash the environment a little more, that’ll teach them’, there will be more who will wonder what is so important that person after person would knowingly choose arrest for, over backing down.

Quite frankly, I feel the same way over ER protesters as I do about the folk being arrested for peacefully but disruptively protesting the treatment of refugees at the US border.    

Many people care, but the disruptors are really the only folk not sitting around wringing their hands and hoping someone else will do something.  

Everyone else, no matter how well meaning, is pretty much in denial and just hoping that if they keep using the same old tactics, despite thirty years of evidence to the contrary, maybe they’ll work this time.

#47 Lunafreya

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:19 PM

Reminds me of that story of the treasure vault, an underground room filled with gold.  And water pouring in.  To get out you had to swim underwater and take none of the gold with you.

So our leaders would rather sit with the gold until we all drowned,

#48 gruidae

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:20 PM

View PostFahrook, on 09 October 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

Lucky you.
You're confusing anxiety with other actually life threatening mh conditions. I have cptsd - the associated depression can be life threatening but the anxiety, I'm told can not kill in and of itself. It can talk you out of leaving the house, it can make you irrationally agitated, it can make you faint and vomit, it can send your to the ED thinking you're having a heart attack (all me) - but it can't actually kill you. When my psychologist was frist introducing me to that concept, I felt like punching her. But she was right.

My anxiety is triggered by many things - men with "meth edge" in their voices, southern cross tattoos, women who wear certain fragrances, the sound of brisk walking in high heels - and more generally living in a society where 50% of the population is only concerned with making sure they personally are not in any discomfort.

I am never free of it, anxiety is always there with me even when I'm travelling well. I feel like I have a freaking phd in it tbh. But I'd be an $%^&hole if I wrote off people who accidentally stepped on my trigger points while themselves trying to do something for the greater good.

If I'm too agitated, I retreat a while for self care. I accept that's just how I need to manage my stuff. It's not the fault of the guy with the southern cross tattoos or the woman walkng briskly in heels. It probably is the fault of some folk in my past but that's also not in my control and does me no good to live there in my head.

Traffic jams happen for all kinds of reasons - breakdowns, accidents, malfunctioning traffic lights, football and cricket matches. They only seem to promote this level of righteous anger when it's a protest for a cause.

#49 casime

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:22 PM

I do believe that there is a crisis and that we need to do something about it.  I have no problem with peaceful protests.  I don't even care if some people are a bit late to work.  

I do object when protesters undertake illegal or dangerous activities (trespass, supergluing themselves to roads, hanging from the Storey Bridge), which requires others to have to put themselves at risk to remove or save them or can make people feel threatened (such as vegan protesters who trespass onto private property).  I also disagree with harassment of passers-by who have the right to go about their day without being screamed at or forced to engage with anyone protesting if they do not wish to.

#50 (feral)epg

Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:23 PM

I'm in XR in Perth and so quite curious about what people really think.  We're quite small and I don't think we even COULD shut down any major roads if we tried (we haven't yet).  

I'm not super comfortable with disruptive protests myself - but, like a previous poster said, we've done everything else.  And carbon emissions are still rising.

I'm also REALLY not able to accept that the next 9 years brings us to a point where wiping out coral reefs becomes certain.  That's only 2 elections away.  Will my kids really never snorkel on Ningaloo or the Great Barrier Reef?

I'm also DESPERATE about the fact that in the next 80 years we will likely have a billion climate refugees. The world went bat sh*t crazy over 1 million refugees seeking asylum in Europe.  We're taking about 1,000 times that number - and less places to put them.

We know the world has already warmed 1 degree, but so far it seems to mostly be affecting wildlife and brown people, so we just haven't reacted.  Global carbon emissions are STILL RISING despite everything that's already being and most people have barely noticed.

So for those who agree with the science, and the urgency, but not the means of delivery - what else should we do?  Cause at the moment we're just allowing it to happen on our watch.




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