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Sleep issues any advice!?!


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#1 Teah

Posted 05 October 2019 - 06:02 PM

Hi mummas sorry for the long post!

So I am still having sleep issues with my 18month old! It's now getting ridiculous and I'm not sure what else to do! He is constantly moving, winging, crying, screaming at night. He would wake for a feed up until around 8months old I think and then I decided I would stop, started just giving water and then nothing but his never actually slept through. I could probably count 3 times that he has slept through and two of those he was I'll and the other was a very late night and he was exhausted.

At 16months old it just got too much so decided to co-sleep. I should add that I have three extremely close together in age and this was the best option for me. But now that my baby is sleeping through and my eldest has always slept through since 6wks old, I'm left thinking that maybe I'm missing something here?

I know that routine has gone out the window because it was hard with a newborn etc and even now I have to wait till my youngest is asleep before I can put him for a nap, which sometimes can be late but that's the only option I have. I only let him sleep 1hr and 45min.

Wondering if anyone can give me some advice or let me know a good awake and bedtime routine. As much as I would like to put him to nap at same time every day, I know that's probably not possible.

I would love for him to go into his own bed if possible.

He was having night terrors up until we started cosleeping, now it's just irritability, restlessness, winging, crying, moving around the whole bed. Sometimes I think his too hot so I take clothes off. I also have had his ears checked three times.......watered down his milk just before bed just incase it was his stomach.......I feel like I've tried everything.

Help TIA

#2 dearydo

Posted 05 October 2019 - 08:27 PM

I am the opposite of a sleep expert, but while there are probably many things others can suggest for you, I just wanted to say some kids just simply take longer to develop the skills involved in sleeping a whole night. It's nothing they are doing, nothing you are doing, it's just them. It doesn't mean it's easy or not worth trying things, but it does take away some frustration (least for me it did). All of mine still regularly wake at night or every night and those who occasionally do sleep a whole night only started around 6 years of age. Not fun, but it is just them.

Only thing I would say is wriggling and major restlessness usually meant extremely over tired for mine so maybe an earlier bed time (I know the juggle, I did toddlers and babies, I had to do all at same time in my room as it was the only way) or a longer nap to get you to a later bed time.

#3 Teah

Posted 05 October 2019 - 08:36 PM

Thankyou dearydo

It's so fustrating. We actually have resorted to all three in our bed,(which means hubby sleeps in another bed!) just makes it easier to get them to sleep at night. But there bed time is late and I do really want to get into a 7-7 routine but because his naps can be late, that sometimes doesn't work. I will give it another shot though.

Hopefully my husband and I can share a bed again soon haha

#4 dearydo

Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:25 PM

Still have 3 in my bed tonight ������

It makes for much easier and less drama filled bed times if they can be done at the same time and place so I was ok for that.

What time does he wake in the morning and what time does he nap? Everything is going to change tonight (at least according to the clock) so if you are a family that g as things or places to be at certain times, you might as well play now while things need adjusting anyway (I'll confess that I didn't change anything when I had just one ran to the old time for AGES), harder with the next as there were places to be with the older.

Edit. Sorry, of course the clock change only applies if you are actually in a daylight savings state. I always forget some places don't partake.

Edited by dearydo, 05 October 2019 - 10:11 PM.


#5 Pocket...

Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:25 PM

Is there any snoring or breathing through his mouth during sleep? That night suggest enlarged adenoids or tonsils which can reduce sleep quality and lead to over tiredness.

Another might be night time hunger. My ds genuinely got hungry at night. Solids last thing didn't do it he actually did need a feed during the night, then when he was older an actual midnight snack.

#6 MooGuru

Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:59 PM

Have you tried giving a dose of panadol/nurofen to check for pain? Does that make a difference?

#7 Teah

Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:24 PM

Haha I feel a little better I'm not the only one co-sleeping. Well technically my 5month old is in the bessinet next to me and only my 3 and 18month old are in our bed. Times are all over the place, but bedtime can be anywhere between 8:30-9:30 (I know late!) Wake is usually 7:30-8:30! His nap I like to be around 12:30-1pm but today was 2:15!!! Although I will say they have had constant colds this year and are currently getting over gastro!! So it's been a tough winter especially week! Once there all better I'm going to wake them at 7am try get them to nap about 12 and in bed by 7pm this is my aim and I'm hoping it will make a difference. 🤞

There's no snoring or anything like that, I did actually mention this to my husband but apart from the bad sleeping I don't see other signs. His sleeping next to me now and his still stuffy from a cold and getting over gastro and his breathing sounds fine and mouth is almost closed. I will say that he always feels hot, no temp just got blooded. So I feel like sometimes he would sleep better with less clothes....I also think if he was in his own bed it would get so hot for him. I don't know I've literally thought of everything.

Have tried the Panadol thing too haha didn't make any difference. I always thought something's hurting him because that's how it would look and sound so I gave him Panadol but nothing changed 🙄

I've googled stress and anxiety can cause this but I don't know what would cause him to feel like that??? I would hate to think my poor baby is scared or stressed during the day over something I'm doing. I really don't know what. If his naughty I'll tell him off but he laughs and does it again and then I laugh because his just too cute haha but is there something else I'm missing that I may be doing?

😩

#8 Jenflea

Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:40 PM

What does he eat for dinner?
My DD had night terrors, but only quite mild compared to some, and it was partly due to being too hot first part of the night and partly due to some food we had for dinner. She grew out of it by about 3 or 4.

It could be food or additive intolerance.

#9 Teah

Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:58 PM

Every night is pretty different, but they do love pasta, chicken, meatballs, red meat, potatoes, yoghurt, banana. If I'm being lazy or there being fussy then I have frozen nuggets that they like but that's not every night. I struggle to feed him veggies unless I hide it in the meatballs. I will say that his not a big eater, but loves milk. I do my best to cut down on milk so he will eat more but he has been sick a bit this winter and sometimes milk is all he wants so I let him. I'll say that breakfast he eats he will snack on things here and there during the day and I let him because lunch can be hit and miss with him and then dinner is one or two of the above but small portion. Sometimes he will eat alot, more then his older sibling. His a big boy so U would think he eats alot but he doesn't most of the time.

#10 vanilla_bear

Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:07 AM

I'm no expert but I've read that restricting day sleeps isn't helpful, and that sleep promotes sleep. Ideally at that age they should be getting 14 hours sleep, 11 hours at night and 3 during the day (my 17 month old doesn't conform to this advice but it's what we aim for and I thought it may be helpful!)

#11 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:33 AM

Im not a sleep expert, but we did consult one once when DS has a bit of a bad sleep patch at a similar age. With 3 young kids id be playing hardball. You need your sleep to look after them.

He may not like co-sleeping, too many distractions for an 18 month old.  Id put him in his own room, own bed, and be strict.  Bed time at 7, no exceptions, and leave him to it.  Can he escape a cot?  If not, all the better, make it a comfy safe place and try to not respond to any whinging or crying or fidgeting, unless it really escalates, and even then, settle him in the cot, dont get him up. quick pat through the bars, then leave.

If he can get out of a cot, then its harder, you have to take the sides off and just put him straight back to bed when he gets up. no talking, no fussing, just a quick "no, its bed time" and then leave.

It may take a while but he will get there.

And i wouldn't limit nap time either, not at that age. he may be over tired.  Id actually prioritise his nap time over baby's nap time, because babies naps are constantly shifting as they age, and dont expect them to nap at the same time (mine never did!)  You may need to be house bound for a few days until he catches up on a bit of sleep and the routine is working, but short term pain for long term gain.

Good luck.

#12 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:38 AM

This is a good guide i used a lot, her notes are great, and she has a "no-cry-sleep solution" which has some handy methods for any age, might help with getting your bed back ;)

Sleep needs by age:
http://www.mybabysle...rts-by-age.html

No-Cry sleep solution:
http://www.mybabysle...-solutions.html
(Note: if you go through her whole website, most of the advice from the book is there, just takes a bit of reading)

Edited by ~LemonMyrtle~, 06 October 2019 - 08:40 AM.


#13 MsLaurie

Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:44 AM

Is he still having a morning nap? Might he drop off even for a little one if you went for a long drive or walk in the pram or something?

#14 Lady Gray

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

We had awful sleep issues with my daughter around this age.  One of the main causes of her restlessness was she was really low in iron and we think this was causing her to have restless legs.

#15 Teah

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:05 AM

Ok so I have always let my kids sleep as long as they want but have only cut this one's nap shorter because I thought it would help night sleep, also every time I google it tells me 2-3hrs can be too much for his age?!?! Now I'm confused because you mums think 2-3 hrs is fine (which is what he usually did and if I let him still will) now I'm thinking I just let him sleep as per usual. Better for me haha. So if I'm aiming for a 7am to 7pm routine then what time should nap time start??

Also the reason I have to make sure 5month old is sleeping is because I can't leave her alone with 3yr old while I go into upstairs dark bedroom and put ds to sleep, it only takes 5-10min but don't like leaving baby unattended especially when I'm upstairs. And if she starts crying etc it's tricky. I am trying to work on putting him in his cot with bottle and letting him fall asleep on his own but if I don't get him at the right time it just doesn't work. His used to me holding him while he drinks and then I put him in cot.

I think I'm just going to have to work on a 7-7 routine and try my best to get him napping at the same time everyday. Then hopefully I can move him to his bed.

I'm hoping this will help the nights.....😬

#16 Teah

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:09 AM

Lady Gray, did yours kick his legs at night and winge or cry? I was actually wondering about this low in iron ..... might look into this one. Thanks

#17 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:14 AM

if bed time is 7, id aim for nap to end no later than 3pm.  otherwise getting him to bed will be hard. Although, the only time i would wake my son from a nap was if he was sleeping past 4pm.  a 4pm nap wake-up time meant an 8pm bed time, which wasn't ideal for us.


Can you put baby in a carrier while you put your son to bed? I used a baby carrier a lot when i had my second son, 14 month age gap.  Even at home it was so handy, cause DS2 would fall asleep in the carrier while i looked after DS1, he would often transfer too, so i was basically doing the "put baby to sleep" routine while feeding/playing with DS1 and ignoring baby, lol.  Or i would just wear him for an hour while he slept, especially if the timings were all wrong, like when baby needs nap but DS1 had just woken up.

#18 Riotproof

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:17 AM

I think it’s more timing of the nap, tbh. I would try to have a really active morning, lots of running around, park time etc. and then an earlyish lunch at 11.30 or so, nap time or quiet time at midday. Then awake from 2 or three until dinner at 6 and aim for bedtime at 7. It does sound like overtiredness to me too, which is a hard cycle to break.

#19 Teah

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:20 AM

View Post~LemonMyrtle~, on 06 October 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:

This is a good guide i used a lot, her notes are great, and she has a "no-cry-sleep solution" which has some handy methods for any age, might help with getting your bed back ;)

Sleep needs by age:
http://www.mybabysle...rts-by-age.html

No-Cry sleep solution:
http://www.mybabysle...-solutions.html
(Note: if you go through her whole website, most of the advice from the book is there, just takes a bit of reading)

Thankyou this was a good guide! So it's telling me bedtime should be between 6-8pm and no more then 2hr nap.

My 18month old loves me to hold him in the chair while he drinks his milk and falls asleep so the carrier is a no go, but if I can try get him to do this in the cot while I stand and watch him then the carrier could actually work!! Might give it a shot 😀

#20 JomoMum

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:28 AM

View PostRiotproof, on 06 October 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

I think it’s more timing of the nap, tbh. I would try to have a really active morning, lots of running around, park time etc. and then an earlyish lunch at 11.30 or so, nap time or quiet time at midday. Then awake from 2 or three until dinner at 6 and aim for bedtime at 7. It does sound like overtiredness to me too, which is a hard cycle to break.

These were exactly my thoughts.

I recall this timing working really well for DS at home, and it also happened to be the timing they used at daycare too.

#21 Lady Gray

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:44 AM

View PostTeah, on 06 October 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

Lady Gray, did yours kick his legs at night and winge or cry? I was actually wondering about this low in iron ..... might look into this one. Thanks

It was more like constant restless shifting around.  She didn't really cry unless we refused to lie next to her and cuddle her.  Oh and at least 2-3 times per week she'd be up from midnight and not fall asleep until 4am/5am.  It was awful.

Honestly, I don't think you've got much to lose by having his iron levels tested, it seems quite a common issue with kids that is fairly easily rectified with the iron supplement.  I wish we had done it months ago!

ETA:  we also got rid of her nap during the day, she used to have a really long one (2-3 hours).  God do I miss those naps!

We also did some sleep training after we sorted out her iron levels.  It was an awful few days even though we stayed in the room with her but well worth doing.  We had nearly year of horrendous sleep, I got so sick which I am sure was due to sleep deprivation.  I was like a zombie and we only have one kid.  I really regret not getting help sooner, it has had such a knock on effect for me health wise and consequently business wise.

Edited by Lady Gray, 06 October 2019 - 11:47 AM.


#22 Teah

Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:56 AM

Think I might go to chemist and grab an iron supplement, I actually got one for my first born when she was smaller so might get another. Which one did you get?

I might give routine and iron supplement a go and also being a bit stricter with when he naps. I really don't want to cut out day naps at his age haha but if it means for better sleep then maybe one day haha thankyou

#23 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:55 PM

We tested putting DS on lactose free milk around that age.  It seemed to help, less gassy. I don’t think he is actually lactose intolerant tho DD is, but it’s easier to digest and they can’t tell the difference. Didn’t hurt, we thought it helped a bit.

Every little thing helps, but I do agree with PPs, over tiredness is often a big factor

#24 Lady Gray

Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:43 PM

View PostTeah, on 06 October 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

Think I might go to chemist and grab an iron supplement, I actually got one for my first born when she was smaller so might get another. Which one did you get?

I might give routine and iron supplement a go and also being a bit stricter with when he naps. I really don't want to cut out day naps at his age haha but if it means for better sleep then maybe one day haha thankyou

I was told a blood test was needed to confirm dosage and that it wasn’t wise to give the supplement ‘just in case’.  We use the maltofer brand and you do have to be careful about constipation and it upsetting their tummy.  We’ve had no problems so far.  

She was just retested a month ago after 3 months on the supplement and it’s still low but better than what it was so we continue until the end of the year.

The blood test was bulk billed.

#25 Teah

Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:33 PM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 06 October 2019 - 04:55 PM, said:

We tested putting DS on lactose free milk around that age.  It seemed to help, less gassy. I don’t think he is actually lactose intolerant tho DD is, but it’s easier to digest and they can’t tell the difference. Didn’t hurt, we thought it helped a bit.

Every little thing helps, but I do agree with PPs, over tiredness is often a big factor

I actually thought maybe his full cream is too heavy just before bed so what I did is I would give him formula instead. My husband and I have just realised that this all did start basically around the same time as we stopped formula. So we are now thinking it's either intolerance of some sort of iron levels or just a really bad sleeper haha tonight I gave him formula before bed and we will do this for the whole week and see if there is any improvement. Thank you




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