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Spin off - why do you think difficult conversations in the workplace automatically default to HR?


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#51 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 July 2019 - 09:26 AM

View PostJAPNII, on 12 July 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

I think there is an overuse and total misunderstanding of HR and their role.

Maybe HR people need to take that on board and get out among the people and make their role more clear. As far as I could tell, our HR department provided contracts, managed payroll using a system that required weekly overtime for full timers, and gave prospective new employees incorrect information.

#52 kimasa

Posted 13 July 2019 - 09:48 AM

Different HR departments do different things. Our payroll is a separate department from HR, but we are a very large organisation.

#53 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 July 2019 - 10:16 AM

View Postkimasa, on 13 July 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

Different HR departments do different things. Our payroll is a separate department from HR, but we are a very large organisation.
Even more reason for them to actually get out and educate their own companies on what they do.

FTR, I worked for a national company with offices in multiple cities.

#54 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 13 July 2019 - 10:38 AM

yeh our payroll and HR are separate ...payroll are great - every fortnight they leave a nice little something in my bank account! they accurately calculate over time, TOIL, LSL etc.

meanwhile HR roll out useless online performance appraisal systems that had me apparently managing a team of three (i don’t) and because *they* didn’t submit their 360 on me (because they don’t exist) i couldn’t get my performance review finalised. which is moot anyway - the appraisal doesn’t mean anything - we don’t get pay rises...it just meant i kept getting computer generated reminders for my team (that doesn’t exist) to submit their review. of course actually notifying Hr of this...there was a glitch in their “bells and whistles” system that cost millions to rollout (i wasn’t the only one it happened to) was met with crickets chirping ...and then just more stupid emails about the next HR sponsored morning tea “Mental Health week - wear dots!” ....whatever....

#55 JAPNII

Posted 13 July 2019 - 10:40 AM

View PostSeaPrincess, on 13 July 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

Maybe HR people need to take that on board and get out among the people and make their role more clear. As far as I could tell, our HR department provided contracts, managed payroll using a system that required weekly overtime for full timers, and gave prospective new employees incorrect information.
Maybe - I don't work in HR but perhaps you have a point.

But maybe managers also need to tell their staff that they are the first POC for minor disputes, irritations and the like.

And I also think people need to grow up. I see a lot of adolescent behaviour in workplaces.

#56 eilca

Posted 13 July 2019 - 11:34 AM

I would say most organisations have grievance procedures (or should) and these should always be the first point of call.  But it takes courage to do so and I think the catchcry of 'go to HR" is an easier option that requesting a mediation meeting or having a difficult conversation with a colleague.

#57 WannabeMasterchef

Posted 13 July 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostJAPNII, on 13 July 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Maybe - I don't work in HR but perhaps you have a point.

But maybe managers also need to tell their staff that they are the first POC for minor disputes, irritations and the like.


In some places a lot of people end up managing because it was the only way to progress up the ranks, not because they wanted to be or are good at being a manager. The fallout from that is that they often don't manage.

Bear in mind Im from an IT background where often the most technically skilled person is not great with people skills.

#58 CallMeFeral

Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:16 PM

View PostWannabeMasterchef, on 13 July 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

In some places a lot of people end up managing because it was the only way to progress up the ranks, not because they wanted to be or are good at being a manager. The fallout from that is that they often don't manage.

Bear in mind Im from an IT background where often the most technically skilled person is not great with people skills.

I've always struggled with this - that people who actually 'do' the work are considered to be at the bottom and paid accordingly, and that to rise 'up the ranks' it is necessary to become a manager. I'd much rather see a system where 'management' is a valued skill that someone would be evaluated on and paid according to that skill - as would the 'doers' - so a good 'doer' could get paid highly and their manager may be earning less than them if applicable because 'management' is a different job.

I worked in accounting where 'doer' was at the bottom, 'manager' was in the middle and 'salesperson' (partner) was at the top. It was nonsensical. It's not the same skillset. But you'd have to be good at one to progress to a completely different one, and few people were good at all. And of course long term it meant 'salesperson' was the most valued thing right from bottom to top, so the good doers and managers were always underappreciated.

#59 Dianalynch

Posted 13 July 2019 - 03:32 PM

There are plenty of useful hr functions in large organisations- payroll my favourite, generally hardworking people working with crappy bolted on systems because no one will give them money for new systems as it’s all taken by ‘glamorous hr’

Employment, workplace and industrial relations people - will set up your contract, interpret your award and pay, negotiate an eba, set up the policy frameworks, try to stop anyone from discriminating against you on illegal grounds, make managers accommodate disability, investigate and resolve your disputes and grievances with an impartial view attracting the ire of managers...

The hr consultants, generally well meaning people with not enough time, if they can stop managers from doing anything really silly they’ve had a good day

Glamorous hr - you can spot them by the word culture, strategic, leadership, development or change in their title, despised by the technical hr functions, they fluff around saying things like ‘if you rotate the m in me 180degrees you get a better result’ and other such nonsense...

#60 gettin my fance on

Posted 13 July 2019 - 04:01 PM

View PostCallMeFeral, on 13 July 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'd much rather see a system where 'management' is a valued skill that someone would be evaluated on and paid according to that skill - as would the 'doers' - so a good 'doer' could get paid highly and their manager may be earning less than them if applicable because 'management' is a different job.

I've seen this scenario and it didn't work very well at all.

People tended to disregard the manager's directions and not respect the manager and their decisions because of the pay disparity i.e. you're not the boss of me kind of thing.  The manager was a good manager - the people they were trying to manage knew that they earned more and were more 'valuable' to the company, as long as they got the job done they thought they could behave like a*s*holes.

#61 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 July 2019 - 04:27 PM

The issue is that in many workplaces, people get promoted into management s the next step, but there’s no professional development in management skills. A really effective manager has both the technical skills and the people skills.

#62 Mozzie1

Posted 13 July 2019 - 05:28 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 11 July 2019 - 10:00 PM, said:

i’d probably rather poke a hot stick in my eye than go to our HR - they are useless oxygen thieves. completely incompetent and just create work for works sake so they can justify their continued existence. they add zero value to anything.

This is slightly harsh but the sentiment I mostly agree with. The biggest bugbear of mine is the artificial deadlines. "Reviews must be completed by 10 July or else". Why? "because we said so".

View PostIt, on 11 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Isn't it the role of HR to manage the humans that work in the organisation? And by that, they have to deal with all the human issues including smelly people.

I find it a bit bizarre that someone who says they work in the realm of HR is asking this question - to me its kinda like somoene asking why the finance matters of the organisation fall to the finance department.

No, I find your position utterly bizarre. Managers manage people. HR manages HR processes including hiring, onboarding, firing, redundancy, performance management frameworks, training and development etc...

#63 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 July 2019 - 06:12 PM

View PostMozzie1, on 13 July 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

No, I find your position utterly bizarre. Managers manage people. HR manages HR processes including hiring, onboarding, firing, redundancy, performance management frameworks, training and development etc...

People expect their managers to manage the day-to-day workplace work, but they want someone independent, i.e. HR, to step in and deal with conflict issues. I don’t think that’s necessarily the wrong approach.

And this thread shows that it’s clearly a common belief that HR should do this.

#64 kimasa

Posted 13 July 2019 - 06:19 PM

In many workplaces managers also tend to work closer to their teams than HR does and that can mean friendships and biases.

It's why my work introduced the equal employment opportunity officers, so you can go to a completely different department where the person there knows no one involved in the situation and can offer non-biased advice.

And you know, sometimes the problem is the manager...

#65 Mollycoddle

Posted 13 July 2019 - 08:22 PM

View PostDianalynch, on 13 July 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:


Glamorous hr - you can spot them by the word culture, strategic, leadership, development or change in their title, despised by the technical hr functions, they fluff around saying things like ‘if you rotate the m in me 180degrees you get a better result’ and other such nonsense...

Not to mention the recent trend of calling themselves the 'talent' department. No kidding, I've come across this a few times lately with various orgs I've had to deal with at work. We're in community services, dammit, not entertainment!

Edited by Mollycoddle, 13 July 2019 - 08:22 PM.


#66 lozoodle

Posted 13 July 2019 - 08:30 PM

haha they're called talent management at my work. my boss calls them oxygen thieves lol

#67 PsySquirrel

Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:09 AM

I have friends that work in 'Talent' and the name has always come from the senior leadership -c-suite folks who want to be seen as having a strategy for employee retention etc. The HR people were just like *shrug* okay, can I have a system that would cut my payroll processing time down from 3days to 1.5 please? No? Alright, you know I am one of the talent to right? I don't count? got it...

#68 SeaPrincess

Posted 14 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

Our were People and Culture, with a culture of screwing the people.




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