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When is it ok for girls to start shaving/hair removal?


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#51 Mollycoddle

Posted 08 July 2019 - 10:54 AM

View Postamdirel, on 08 July 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

I allowed my DD to start when she wanted to, but only as long as she understood that there is upkeep involved, cost, effort, and she understood the different options of removal.

Yes there are costs and effort but not really upkeep?  If what people are saying is true and hair doesn't grow in thicker and darker then anyone can choose to stop hair removal at any time without consequence. It's not like once you start you have to keep going.

#52 Nasty Butterfly

Posted 08 July 2019 - 10:58 AM

Is body hair still a huge thing dividing the sexes these days? Many of the boys in DD1's year level also shave legs and definitely do chest waxing and happily discuss their manscaping.

I've spent absolutely no time thinking seriously about this or researching it so I don't know if this is an actual societal change or my DD's just go to school with an unusual bunch of dudes......

As for my DD's (13 & 15) I don't actually know when they started, I think DD1 was about 12 but DD2 was a bit younger because she could borrow her sister's razor. It's a decision for them to make. We did discuss the feminist aspect of hair removal but they decided they could be good feminists and hair free at the same time. Again a choice for them to make.

#53 JinksNewton

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:05 AM

View PostLou-bags, on 08 July 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:




Also ‘don’t see skin colour or religion’ is bullsh*t and actually only adds to oppression. Pretending you’re so woke you don’t ‘see’ something adds to the marginalization and oppression of minorities. People want to be seen and accepted, and their struggles and the systemic oppression they live acknowledged. Not ‘when I look at you, I don’t see a woman/wheel chair/head scarf/black person’, which is incredibly invalidating.

Can't like this enough . I tend to find the people who "don't see" things are very far from teenagers.

I also think viewing all teenagers as one woke homogenous mass of "fight the power" means you don't run into many teenagers. Some of them are.like that. SOME.

I also don't get how dyeing hair and makeup got lumped in with hair removal (I started dyeing my hair at 13, so did my brother, because it's awesome) and also why "perfectly natural" is viewed as always a good thing. Armpit odor is perfectly natural too, but my 10 year old son still wears deodorant as he started to get distinctly stinky about a year ago.

Anyway, I have no dog in this fight. I'm an occasional shaver, I only have DS and his dad can help with any and all.facial hair decisions. I will say though that when my young cousin was in hospital for over a month after getting diagnosed with stage 3 Hodgkins, I was the one who went and bought her wax strips for her very hirsute brows and upper lip. I could have argued that she was in hospital and it didn't matter but I chose to do what made her feel a little like herself.

#54 spr_maiden

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:09 AM

IDK about there being an age per se.  
I can imagine DD might want to start earlier if peers start to tease her about her monobrow and begin to notice her hairy legs.  Though, I would be equally unsurprised if she doesn't care what they say.
I will take her to get her eyebrows waxed during her teens.  My sister did mine in my early teens as she needed someone to practice on for her apprenticeship. Mum didn't like it, but agreed as long as it was natural full brow look only.  This means, as an adult, I have saved soooo much money because I can go months on months without getting them done.  When this happens for DD, I guess will be based on when she asks.

Legs, armpits, etc - I hope she can hold off for a bit.  I was 11 when I started.  Mum not happy.  I succumbed to peer pressure.  If DD starts, I want to help her so she doesn't carve herself up.  
Starting is not the be all, end all.  Starting younger meant that by the time I was a teen, I got super lazy and spent a lot of time not bothering with it. My fine, blonde hairs let me get away with it.  Though I was happy to laugh off people's general teasing.

#55 amdirel

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:12 AM

View PostMollycoddle, on 08 July 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

Yes there are costs and effort but not really upkeep?  If what people are saying is true and hair doesn't grow in thicker and darker then anyone can choose to stop hair removal at any time without consequence. It's not like once you start you have to keep going.

If she chooses to be hair free, she has to keep up with the removal...

#56 spr_maiden

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:17 AM

^ no, she doesn't.  I did it on and off. I still go a long time without hair removal if I feel like it.  Winter tights are the bomb if I'm feeling self-conscious.

#57 ERipley

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:28 AM

I started when I was 9 because that’s what people in my class were doing. It made me feel grown up. My mother tried to stop me but I did it anyway and I resented her for trying to baby and control me. That’s how 9 year old me saw it anyway.

#58 steppy

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:29 AM

I really don't understand the botching the shaving thing. One of my sister's did this too - cut herself up with a razor. I never understood how. Nobody taught me how to use a razor either and it was easy as anything.

#59 amdirel

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:30 AM

View Postspr_maiden, on 08 July 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

^ no, she doesn't.  I did it on and off. I still go a long time without hair removal if I feel like it.  Winter tights are the bomb if I'm feeling self-conscious.

I wrote it in one sentence for a reason.

#60 Ellie bean

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:31 AM

View PostOctopodes, on 08 July 2019 - 10:26 AM, said:

Yes. With my then 8yo son. He is now 12 and has no intention of ever shaving, just trimming for hygiene reasons.

It has nothing to do with control. It is about presenting historical facts and explaining the implications of their actions.

Oh, and the 'I don't control my child' is BS. Do you make them go to school? Eat certain foods? Refuse to allow them to wear certain clothing? Make them wash their bodies? Brush their teeth? Stop them getting in the car with a stranger? You control your child in a hundred different ways everyday.
Ah your 12yo son has no intention of shaving, I’m sure he will never ever change his mind ever :)

Edited by Ellie bean, 08 July 2019 - 11:31 AM.


#61 spr_maiden

Posted 08 July 2019 - 11:31 AM

^^ahhhh, missed that...

Edited by spr_maiden, 08 July 2019 - 11:32 AM.


#62 TheGreenSheep

Posted 08 July 2019 - 12:00 PM

My mum said 12yo. I think it was just a number and tbh up to us whether or not we did. My older sisters harassed me endlessly to shave my legs, they were blond and fluffy and to them it was unattractive. I dug in and did it when I wanted. Um maybe 13yo? Can’t really remember exactly.

Throughout my entire life I have waxed, plucked, shaved and lasered whatever I wanted too, whenever I wanted. I went through periods of not. Meh! It had no effect on my love/sex life, so I don’t believe shaving/ hair removal is intrinsically linked to some patriarchy mentioned upthread IME. It’s entirely personal.

I have sons, so I’m sure that they’ll face shave whenever they get the hair and the desire. I also don’t control DHs hair care or removal, so up to the males what they’d like to do too!

#63 seayork2002

Posted 08 July 2019 - 12:56 PM

I have Greek on one side of my family and very hairy legs, my mum (not Greek) mentioned when I was a 11/12 or so if I shaved it was not a once in a life thing it would need to continue (I mean physically continue if I wanted to stop it)

I said 'heck no I am not having anything to do with that' or words to that effect so I have lived with my hairy legs ever since.

I spent most of my teenage years with my fiends on the beach as I lived nearby I don't remember any comments.

So I will be saying the same to my son (or daughter if I had one) and be up to them but to DS me with no makeup, no skin care, no dressing up or heels or anything is normal and has less desire for 'fashion/trends' than me (nor DH) and that is saying.

DS just rolls his eyes when he gets comments at school like 'you are meant to red today your top it not red but  orange' and when he hears comments about his braces.  

He knows teasing happens but knows it is there problem not his and does not buy into having to look a certain way just because people say you have too

Saw a PP about men shaving, he may or not may choose to do this and up to him if he does but has a fear of shaving foam so he will have to buy himself an electric razor

Edited by seayork2002, 08 July 2019 - 12:57 PM.


#64 Jane Jetson

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:08 PM

I fricking hate this idea that women only shave, have long hair and wear makeup because they want to be attractive to men. Self-beautification is a natural human instinct. We have been doing it from the year dot. All of us, men included. Long hair/heels/shaving/makeup is just our current culture's interpretation of it for women and it will change, as it always has.

I have a big problem when it's *expected* (a la The Beauty Myth) but I have just as big a problem with being told I should not do it (a la red pillers, who are increasingly vocal about how women shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup).

View PostBornToLove, on 08 July 2019 - 02:45 AM, said:

My mother took the hard no approach to things like shaving legs, plucking brows etc That resulted in me taking matters into my own hands and figuring out things on my own often to desasterious results. I will be taking a much more supportive approach and helping DD find solutions that address her concerns.

Same. My mother was incredibly controlling about my appearance (and a lot of other things). When I asked her for help with my underarms she went absolutely bananas and screamed at me and forbade me to ever touch a razor. I still have no idea what that was all about, cause it sure as sh*t wasn't feminism. It's a particular bout of shaming that I'll never forget, that's for sure.

When the DDs want to shave, I'll show 'em how. It's their body, not mine, and I do not have a right to control how they present themselves to the world at that level. Trying to equate self-beautification and fashion with basics like bathing and teeth cleaning is a stupid analogy, by the way. One is a self-image and presentation issue; the other is basic hygiene.

As it stands, DD1 (age 12) says she will never remove her hair, and I am supportive of that. I doubt it's because she finds my self-grown ugg boots (I am hairy and rarely shave these days, and DH has never cared) all that attractive, it's a feminist thing. Good for her. If she changes her mind, I'm going to be supportive of that too.

#65 steppy

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:15 PM

I certainly would never consider paying for waxing or any other beauty treatments for someone in grade 6. Next there'll be support for getting botox at 16, just so that they suddenly don't look younger at 45. How many will be willing to pay for that too because even though it's not your body to control, you ARE expected to pay for everything?

For me it's definitely part time job time when the urgent need for waxing, nails, expensive cuts and colours and skin care sets in.

If there was a particularly noticeable problem that created excessive teasing, yes I would support what needed to be done to 'fit in'. I don't have much patience for crying over not having blonde hair or whatever though.

Edited by steppy, 08 July 2019 - 01:27 PM.


#66 Kreme

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:19 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 08 July 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

while acknowledging that shaving legs, shaving under arms is an artificial beauty standard imposed on women...and a double standard at that - as not too many teen boys care about hairy legs (yes yes i know about cyclists and swimmers - i wrote “not too many” to cover the exceptions) - by the same token, as others have pointed out...it’s a bit much to expect teenage girls to take on this fight with so much other stuff going on...the desire to “fit in” along with a general discomfort around the changes brought about by puberty - we’ve all been there. so - from an “autonomy” POV if a girl going through puberty wants to start shaving, then i of course would facilitate that.


One of my friends is a high school teacher in an all boys school and when she first started she was surprised at the number of boys who wax/shave their legs and arms. Nothing to do with being cyclists or swimmers, just personal preference apparently.

#67 seayork2002

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:26 PM

View PostKreme, on 08 July 2019 - 01:19 PM, said:

One of my friends is a high school teacher in an all boys school and when she first started she was surprised at the number of boys who wax/shave their legs and arms. Nothing to do with being cyclists or swimmers, just personal preference apparently.

I do shave under my arm because if I let it get too long my arms squeak when I walk. It is loud!

#68 ERipley

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:32 PM

View PostKreme, on 08 July 2019 - 01:19 PM, said:



One of my friends is a high school teacher in an all boys school and when she first started she was surprised at the number of boys who wax/shave their legs and arms. Nothing to do with being cyclists or swimmers, just personal preference apparently.

I think this is a growing market. People are realising they have wasted all these years with men not having to use make up, oodles of hair products, shaving, waxing, injecting. In 20 years I bet they will be doing just as much as women and it will be like a return to the court of Louis XVI. Which I would secretly love.

#69 steppy

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:16 PM

It's certainly a great tactic for getting rid of people's disposable income.

#70 liveworkplay

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:17 PM

Depends. I had a child who started going through puberty at 8. Being sporty and swimming a lot, she did by 10 as she didn't want to be different (or teased/questioned) by her pre pubescent peers . My youngest is currently 10 and  doesn't have a need and won't for a couple of years by my best guess. My other Dd who is in the pool 6 days a week didn't start until well after puberty hit as it wasn't an issue with her as she was in line with her peers.

We stated the conversation about societies beauty ideals and cultural habits when they were young. My middle DD appreciated these talks but when facted with her own mental well being, it was a no brainer to allow her to make the decision that was right for her. Yes she was 8, yes we talked it though and we chose the least invasive option, but I do not regret that decision and her mental health is better for it. When you have always stuck out like a sore thumb because of your height and are the only child in your class dealing with boobs, pimples, hair and periods, anything to help normalise you is a no brainer.

So it is dependance on so many factors and situations that there is no one answer. I would never have guessed  in a million years when my girls were babies that I would be buying hair removal products for an 8 year old.

Edited by liveworkplay, 08 July 2019 - 02:22 PM.


#71 Nasty Butterfly

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:26 PM

View PostERipley, on 08 July 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:



I think this is a growing market. People are realising they have wasted all these years with men not having to use make up, oodles of hair products, shaving, waxing, injecting. In 20 years I bet they will be doing just as much as women and it will be like a return to the court of Louis XVI. Which I would secretly love.


Yay for capitalism lol

Males and makeup is a big trend on YouTube with Patrick Starr, James Charles, Manny MUA, Jeffree Starr etc.

There is even a boy at DD’s school that has his own MUA Instagram account despite it being a pretty conservative
suburban area of Brisbane so I really think you could be right!



#72 JBH

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:34 PM

I only have boys, so a different conversation, but i’ll
Admit to feeling conflicted.

I imagine i wouldn’t have an arbitrary age-based line in the sand, but I would say something about ideas of beauty that impose different standards on men and women, and the fact that hair removal is optional and my view is that in an ideal world we wouldn’t remove hair but I understand decisions are not made in a vacuum (and after all I remove hair from my arm pits and legs), and then support her to make the decision that feels right at the time, while noting an ability to change her mind at any time (although preferably not after waxing one armpit - i’ve been there).

#73 ERipley

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:41 PM

Remember Ian Thorpe’s pearls for men? It could be his time to shine!

#74 Gonzy

Posted 08 July 2019 - 03:09 PM

I recall very clearly being grounded when my twin sister and I used dad's BIC yellow razors to shave our legs in high school - I think year 7, perhaps 8.

Mum had made us both special 'shaving' gift packs with girly razors and soothing balm, moisturiser etc, unbeknownst to us.  So when she found out we had gone ahead and taken matters into our own hands, I think she was so crushed she just administered a heavy handed punishment.

I don't have daughters but I do have a teenage son and he has no hair on his chin/lip to speak of but he did take my razor to half an eyebrow the other week and when I allowed haircut bodily autonomy the week prior, he came home with the makings of a mullet :omg:

I don't care what anyone says about "his body, his decision", next hair cut I will be bribing/encouraging him to chose wiser lol

Oh, and with his eyebrow - he's been asking me to fill it in for him most mornings so at least he realises that was stupid.

I find shaving my legs one of the biggest hassles.  I would honestly sooner clean my house from top to bottom than shave my legs. :closedeyes:

#75 Treasure Island

Posted 08 July 2019 - 03:13 PM

Quote

I fricking hate this idea that women only shave, have long hair and wear makeup because they want to be attractive to men. Self-beautification is a natural human instinct. We have been doing it from the year dot. All of us, men included. Long hair/heels/shaving/makeup is just our current culture's interpretation of it for women and it will change, as it always has.

I have a big problem when it's *expected* (a la The Beauty Myth) but I have just as big a problem with being told I should not do it (a la red pillers, who are increasingly vocal about how women shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup).

I agree with this, I think people should do what they like as long as they are comfortable and happy with how they look I think that is all that matters. My own routine is fairly minimalist - I shave and pluck a little, I rarely wear makeup but like doing my nails. My skin prefers to be mostly left alone so I do the bare minimum. I have actually stopped buying skin care and DIY at home instead. We moved when I was 13 and I changed schools so decided this was a good time to transition to shaving, Mum didn't even notice for a few weeks. I only have boys here but my oldest shaves his face (15) and went through a stage of wanting to do his legs.




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