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Taxbill to pass the senate - but who gets the $1080 rebate?


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#76 Cimbom

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:24 PM

HECS brackets here: https://www.ato.gov....oldsandrates201

Indexation rates here: https://www.ato.gov....oldsandrates201

Anyone earning less than about 60k is essentially being robbed. Just get rid of the whole thing IMO.

#77 Ozquoll

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:33 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 05 July 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:


“There is, moreover, a broader philosophical point to keep in mind. Taxes should be cut not for their own sake, but to encourage enterprise, individual responsibility and self-reliance – and boost revenue. Lower taxes boost revenues by encouraging economic activity.“

“When people see that they will pay less tax on the next dollar they earn, they’re likely to work harder to earn more dollars. Such an incentive-driven rate cut makes our society more aspirational and stimulates growth overall.“
It’s a sign of how little our elites worry about our dissent that they are still parroting this Chicago School of Economics bullsh*t. It’s been years, maybe decades, since most of us understood that the ‘trickle-down effect’ is a euphemism for wealthy people p*ssing on us from a great height.

From memory (can’t find the article I read this in ATM) the Trump
Tax cuts cost the USA $170 billion in foregone revenue in their first year, and only about $8 billion of that sum made its way into the real economy by increasing wages - the rest got siphoned out to shareholders and stock buybacks. Much the same thing will happen here if Scomo’s tax package passes in full.

#78 Ozquoll

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:38 PM

View Postcasime, on 05 July 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

, or help towards buying a home which would help the housing market?
Not having a go at you, and I know this is tangential to your point, but the idea in this country that we must keep blowing an ever-expanding housing bubble is a huge part of our problem. Young people don’t exist to help the housing market, the housing market (should) exist to help us all have shelter.

Rant over!

Edited by Ozquoll, 05 July 2019 - 02:33 PM.


#79 Cimbom

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:41 PM

Well said. I think we are going to see massive economic ramifications due to the housing bubble in coming months and years

#80 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:55 PM

...and these tax cuts (for those who get them, aren’t offset by HECS etc) are only over 4 years - is that right? (i might have that wrong) - if so they are finite, after that, then what? govt could increase spending on essential services and infrastructure that would have long lasting benefits for all (even for people on Newstart). and these cuts are *designed* to stimulate the economy and increase spending - but what if they don’t? people don’t always behave the way they are expected to in economic modelling.

#81 rainne

Posted 05 July 2019 - 01:09 PM

I paid off some of my HECS straight out of university, as did my spouse.

Then we had kids, and you'll never guess what happened next!

(spoiler: you will)

Now, he's been HECS free for several years. I have just, this year,, now that both of my kids are in school, clawed my way back up to my pre-kid income. In that time, my debt has increased by more than the amount I paid off originally.

I work the same amount of hours as my DH, but I have a fraction of the superannuation and significantly less net income because I'm still saddled with a huge HECS debt. And the value of my house has dropped. And my business will be in danger if recession takes hold, which it will. And wages are stagnant. And insecure employment is the new black.

But sure. Cool. Tax cuts incentivise people, because we're all just lazy arses who won't work if we only get to keep 70c in the dollar instead of 80c.

#82 laridae

Posted 05 July 2019 - 02:31 PM

View PostNobodyelse, on 05 July 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

The 'back in my day' argument is completely beside the point. One hundred percent beside the point. How much was rent 20 years ago? Petrol? Electricity? Houses? You cannot compare the two as we are in a completely different economic landscape.



Well, my sister and I shared a 3 bedroom unit with one other for $270 a week.  There is a 3 bedroom house for rent in the same suburb now for $420.  Petrol was hitting around $1 a litre, around $1.5 now.  Not that it mattered to me as I couldn't drive and caught the bus.   Electricity probably gone up too overall, but its actually gone down over the last 10 years. here Houses have increased, but I'm not in Sydney, so not crazily.  Starting wage was about

35k for my job at the time.  Its now about 60k.  HECS repayments cut in at about 38k at the time.  So I think I got the first year without having to pay, then paid it off over the next 8 years or so. Not quite 20 years but getting there.


View PostNobodyelse, on 05 July 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:



This is not how you save the economy. You don't save it by throwing tax breaks at the upper classes. You don't save it by taking disposable income from who have little of it. You don't save it by cutting wages of penalty rate workers. You save it by raising newstart and the pension.

You think this government is thinking 'we'll lower the threshold because it is the best time for people to pay off their hecs' you're kidding yourself.

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If you are lucky enough to even have a HECS debt that you and being made to pay it off, your background probably isn't that low income.   Uni degrees tend to lead to fairly well paying jobs.  The true low income workers probably didn't even go to uni to accrue a HECS debt.  So therefore it won't affect them.   I don't think thrown tax breaks at the rich is good obviously, but we are talking HECS.  HECS is for people who went to university, capable of completing study and going on to relatively well paying careers.  We aren't talking the average cleaner or retail assistant.  (Nothing wrong with those jobs, obviously, but you don't need to gain a HECS debt to do them).

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It was the best time to pay it off. No doubt about it.  If I'd not been forced to then it would still be hanging around, indexing every year.  and if the repayments had cut in when I was higher rate, more time would have passed, I would have a bigger debt, and I would have more expenses by then too.  How do I know this?  Easy.  My sister did the opposite. She finished 1 year before me and was lucky enough to start when the HECS fees were really low.  They'd more than doubled when I started. Instead of getting a job, she did further study, followed by part time jobs, followed by kids, more part time jobs.  She still has a HECS debt.  She's never earnt enough to have to pay it, except probably now  as she's working more.  Mine was gone before I had kids.

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View PostNobodyelse, on 05 July 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

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Yes, many people will benefit. And many more will not. Are you not concerned about how this whole thing - from the tax breaks right down to the hecs changes - is designed to keep the poor poor? Or as long as 'some benefit' the lower classes can just go eat cake?

And it isn't just young, single folk who have hecs debts. Many women who have interrupted their careers early to have and raise children will re-enter the workforce at the bottom later in life. Many do so after divorce. These are people who may be working menial jobs in retail likely earning just enough to now be slugged with hecs repayments. Or they may have a new debt from re-skilling.

This isn't an altruistic move to get people debt free earlier. It is a cash grab to pay for the tax cuts for the rich.

To be fair, I'm really only talking about the HECS cutoff.  Which wasn't much lower "back in the day".

And yes, I know not only young singles have HECS debts.  But, that kind of their choice isn't it.  You do have to go out of your way to get one, its not just something that's sprung on you randomly.  There are plenty things your could have done to end up in the same situation (eg divorced with a menial job) with no HECS debt.  University is optional...

#83 lazycritter

Posted 05 July 2019 - 05:58 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 05 July 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:




Here is the Guardian report:

https://www.theguard...&CMP=GTAU_email


Here is the ABC report:

https://www.abc.net....ou-get/11277190



Both free to read. If people choose to get their total news from the Herald Sun and Sunrise, not much anyone can do about the spin places like that will give it.

I don't read the HS or watch sunrise. I watched a bit of the project and the rest my best friend told me. She thought I'd get 1080 but she doesn't know my exact finances as it's calculated on net income.

I still think the whole thing is fishy don't trust frydenburg the way he avoids answering direct questions d from waleed.  And where are these rather high future tax cut increases going to come from?  

There is something  we're missing and it's more than the changes to the hecs debt.

#84 purplekitty

Posted 05 July 2019 - 06:44 PM

If Labor win power they will inherit a basket case of an economy and be forced to be the responsible adults in the room.

Again.

#85 born.a.girl

Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:09 PM

View PostFresh Start, on 05 July 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

History shows that the Liberal government will cut services saying we can’t afford them in order to fund the cuts.

The only hope is that the ALP remember they are not supposed to be Liberal-lite and, if they reclaim government, legislate to stop the third tranche of cuts.

One can only hope.

View Postpurplekitty, on 05 July 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

If Labor win power they will inherit a basket case of an economy and be forced to be the responsible adults in the room.

Again.

Yep, again.  And spend their time being criticised by the libs for the cuts they're making and too many of the population will believe them.

#86 born.a.girl

Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:12 PM

View Postlazycritter, on 05 July 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

I don't read the HS or watch sunrise. I watched a bit of the project and the rest my best friend told me. She thought I'd get 1080 but she doesn't know my exact finances as it's calculated on net income.

I still think the whole thing is fishy don't trust frydenburg the way he avoids answering direct questions d from waleed.  And where are these rather high future tax cut increases going to come from?  

There is something  we're missing and it's more than the changes to the hecs debt.


No, it's not calculated on net income, it's calculated on taxable income.

I hope you told your best friend to read past the headlines.

Personally, I hope the future high tax cuts are never going to eventuate.  I wouldn't even mind betting the libs themselves know they're not going to eventuate (surely we couldn't be stuck with them again) and just used it as a vote catcher for the proportion of people who vote in their own self interest - the majority - both ways.

#87 purplekitty

Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:22 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 05 July 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

No, it's not calculated on net income, it's calculated on taxable income.

I hope you told your best friend to read past the headlines.

Personally, I hope the future high tax cuts are never going to eventuate.  I wouldn't even mind betting the libs themselves know they're not going to eventuate (surely we couldn't be stuck with them again) and just used it as a vote catcher for the proportion of people who vote in their own self interest - the majority - both ways.
The strategy works.

#88 Cimbom

Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:07 PM

View Postlazycritter, on 05 July 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:



I don't read the HS or watch sunrise. I watched a bit of the project and the rest my best friend told me. She thought I'd get 1080 but she doesn't know my exact finances as it's calculated on net income.

I still think the whole thing is fishy don't trust frydenburg the way he avoids answering direct questions d from waleed.  And where are these rather high future tax cut increases going to come from?  

There is something  we're missing and it's more than the changes to the hecs debt.

They need to win the next election as well. They can make any excuse in between now and then

#89 Lesley225

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:32 PM

Taxable income is basically net income.

Taxable income = assessable income - allowable deductions.

#90 -Emissary-

Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:02 PM

Didn’t they bashed K-Rudd for years about what a waste the stimulus package was. They’ve effectively gone and done the same thing but only offered it to people they deemed hard working.

Typical middle class welfare and of course no one is outraged and vocal because they are all receiving a refund.

The unemployed and not by choice people needs the cash desperately don’t get a cent. The disable people who can’t work don’t get a cent. The single mother on a pathetic income don’t get a cent. And they don’t have a voice and no one cares about them.

We’re such a selfish nation.

#91 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:19 PM

View PostLesley225, on 05 July 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

Taxable income is basically net income.

Taxable income = assessable income - allowable deductions.

oh, most places I see net income is after tax, so for an individual taxable income less tax paid.

#92 lozoodle

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:26 PM

View PostJRA, on 05 July 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

oh, most places I see net income is after tax, so for an individual taxable income less tax paid.

I think people are mixing up net salary with base salary (pre tax  - eg taxable income) without the superannuation component.

Whereas I also see net as the after tax figure.

#93 SplashingRainbows

Posted 06 July 2019 - 05:07 AM

It is confusing as net wages are gross less tax.

Net income for section 95 ITAA 1936 defines net income for a trust as assessable income less allowable deductions. This relates to trusts only though. Other taxpayers don’t have their income referred to in the same way in legislation.

Edited by SplashingRainbows, 06 July 2019 - 05:08 AM.


#94 Sweet.Pea

Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:12 AM

View Post-Emissary-, on 05 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Didn’t they bashed K-Rudd for years about what a waste the stimulus package was. They’ve effectively gone and done the same thing but only offered it to people they deemed hard working.

Typical middle class welfare and of course no one is outraged and vocal because they are all receiving a refund.

The unemployed and not by choice people needs the cash desperately don’t get a cent. The disable people who can’t work don’t get a cent. The single mother on a pathetic income don’t get a cent. And they don’t have a voice and no one cares about them.

We’re such a selfish nation.

Well why would anyone complain?

The election was in May and the people voted for this party so they would get their tax cut.

#95 catasaurus

Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:12 AM

View Post-Emissary-, on 05 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Didn’t they bashed K-Rudd for years about what a waste the stimulus package was. They’ve effectively gone and done the same thing but only offered it to people they deemed hard working.


The stimulus package worked in the same way as it only applied to tax payers. Those of us who were under the tax paying threshold got nothing (even though everyone is a tax payer as we pay gst).

#96 born.a.girl

Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:24 AM

View PostLesley225, on 05 July 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

Taxable income is basically net income.

Taxable income = assessable income - allowable deductions.


For the purposes of this exericse, net income is after tax.

ETA: As in gross - tax = net income.  The offset is calculated on gross, not net.

If someone asks what your net income is for the year, it's after tax.

Edited by born.a.girl, 06 July 2019 - 07:41 AM.


#97 Sweet.Pea

Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:26 AM

View Postcatasaurus, on 06 July 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:



The stimulus package worked in the same way as it only applied to tax payers. Those of us who were under the tax paying threshold got nothing (even though everyone is a tax payer as we pay gst).

They have it to some welfare recipients too. People on Youth Allowance got a payment.

#98 catasaurus

Posted 06 July 2019 - 10:42 AM

View PostSweet.Pea, on 06 July 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

They have it to some welfare recipients too. People on Youth Allowance got a payment.

There were those that slipped through the cracks though. I wasn't able to get youth allowance, and too young to get austudy, yet didn't make enough money to be taxed so I got nothing.

#99 Lesley225

Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:02 PM

View PostJRA, on 05 July 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

oh, most places I see net income is after tax, so for an individual taxable income less tax paid.

In the tax sense there is no gross income minus tax withheld.

Everything is  either worked out on taxable income or Adjusted taxable income.  Or in some cases like Medicare family income.

#100 SplashingRainbows

Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

But on people’s weekly pay slip, they get a net wage. That’s something they see 26 to 52 times a year as opposed to that one time a year they have to do their tax which they don’t really understand ...

When the banks ask for net income they mean income net of tax.

The everyday usage of net income is income after tax.




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