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Taxbill to pass the senate - but who gets the $1080 rebate?


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#51 FeralZombieMum

Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:20 AM

View PostNobodyelse, on 04 July 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

Born.A.Girl.
I'm also annoyed at the media for using the 1080 figure like it is the minimum people will get across the board.

I agree.

Sadly there will be people who read the headlines and will see the $1,080 amount, and will go out and spend that amount now. They will be in for a shock when they discover it's not the case.

#52 jayskette

Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:26 AM

so..... the night this bill was passed and therefore advertised with much fanfare, what else were passed that the average Australian will be sad/angry/disappointed about?

#53 Cimbom

Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:57 AM

I recommend everyone read the article on HECS that was published by the Guardian yesterday. We’re being taken for a ride that’s for sure

#54 lazycritter

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:00 AM

The way it's being 'advertised' is fishy. It makes it sound like everyone below a certain income is getting 1080, but we're not. A bunch of people are going to be sorely disappointed.

The government is fishy. I don't trust them. And the

#55 born.a.girl

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:03 AM

View Postlazycritter, on 05 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

The way it's being 'advertised' is fishy. It makes it sound like everyone below a certain income is getting 1080, but we're not. A bunch of people are going to be sorely disappointed.

The government is fishy. I don't trust them. And the


Unfortunately if people want to be informed, they have to read past the headlines.

I don't trust them, or the media, so I don't believe the headlines.

Nothing fishy about the calculations, which are readily available.

#56 lozoodle

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:04 AM

Agree the media hype up could be better, but honestly anyone going out spending money they get it is asking for trouble. I mean it even states on the bottom of your tax return that its an estimate only and whatever you get in your account may be a different figure...

#57 Krampus

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:12 AM

View Postjayskette, on 05 July 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

so..... the night this bill was passed and therefore advertised with much fanfare, what else were passed that the average Australian will be sad/angry/disappointed about?

While we will 100% happily spending the $1080 that Dh will get as a result of the change, this bill in itself is the nasty. Over the coming years it will cut income tax revenue enormously (mostly from cutting high income earners tax) and that will all have to come from somewhere. It's setting up to slash services under the good old "we can't afford this" mantra.

#58 Nobodyelse

Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:12 AM

View PostCimbom, on 05 July 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

I recommend everyone read the article on HECS that was published by the Guardian yesterday. We’re being taken for a ride that’s for sure

I was coming to say the same thing. Many people won't get a cent as the government drops the hecs threshold to 45k, wiping out any tax break they get. Which includes me.

I'll likely get nothing after all.

Still angry over here. What an horrible government.

Edited by Nobodyelse, 05 July 2019 - 09:59 AM.


#59 laridae

Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:02 AM

Not everyone has HECS though. Plenty of people don't go to uni, or have already paid it off.  Im pretty sure I had to start paying it off almost straight out of uni as the cut off was quite low then.

#60 Nobodyelse

Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:21 AM

View Postlaridae, on 05 July 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:

Not everyone has HECS though. Plenty of people don't go to uni, or have already paid it off.  Im pretty sure I had to start paying it off almost straight out of uni as the cut off was quite low then.

This is completely beside the point.

#61 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:29 AM

Quote

This is completely beside the point.

It is beside the point, in that the HECS changes are wrong and how HECS work is wrong.

That said the people directly affected by the hecs changes are those earning between 45,881 and the 52,000.

Both are below the average FT starting graduate salary for most/all degrees/industries I believe

So it hurts those not working FT or in the lower edge of the graduate salary.

#62 Nobodyelse

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:05 AM

For the first time, I am seriously worried about how I will survive in this country. The loss of close to $200bil in revenue will be at the cost of people like me and I'm fairly far up the food chain of vulnerability. If I'm feeling worried, I am horrified for the sick, the unskilled workers and the elderly.

I rely on Medicare and government safety nets. When we fall head-first into this recession and I loose my job (because being in the 'luxury' creative field, my product will be one of the first industries to shrink), there will be no net to catch me anymore.

I have given myself twelve-eighteen months to get into corporate work where I will be safe. I hope it is enough. I only have less than six months left of confirmed work. I feel very, very exposed and in danger.

I suppose that's where my anger lies. No Australian should feel endangered by their own government. No Australian should feel like their government is out to destroy them. And that is exactly how it feels down here in the lower socios. Like we have a target on our head.

#63 laridae

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:22 AM

View PostNobodyelse, on 05 July 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:



This is completely beside the point.
The point is kinda that it's not much different from when I finished uni about 20 years ago. That you have to start paying as soon as you get a full time job for an average graduate. They've had to raise it a fair bit be about to lower it again.

Many people will benefit as many people do not have HECS debt.

The reserve bank has been calling on the government to do something. They can't keep lowering interest rates. There is not much lower they can go. If this increases spending and increases GST revenue maybe it'll work out ok.

Edited by laridae, 05 July 2019 - 11:27 AM.


#64 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

As much as I hate everything about HECS I think the need to pay as soon as you start FT after you graduate make the most sense.

It is the point where you have the most money. You generally have no dependents, you generally have lived life as a poor student, so not having money is normal, and it gets HECS off your commitments quickly.

#65 laridae

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:32 AM

View PostJRA, on 05 July 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

As much as I hate everything about HECS I think the need to pay as soon as you start FT after you graduate make the most sense.

It is the point where you have the most money. You generally have no dependents, you generally have lived life as a poor student, so not having money is normal, and it gets HECS off your commitments quickly.

I agree. Generally it's the perfect time to knock most of it off. You are used to being a poor student, quite often living at home or in cheaper accommodation.  Reducing it early before indexing increases it.

#66 Nobodyelse

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:45 AM

View Postlaridae, on 05 July 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

The point is kinda that it's not much different from when I finished uni about 20 years ago. That you have to start paying as soon as you get a full time job for an average graduate. They've had to raise it a fair bit be about to lower it again.

Many people will benefit as many people do not have HECS debt.

The reserve bank has been calling on the government to do something. They can't keep lowering interest rates. There is not much lower they can go. If this increases spending and increases GST revenue maybe it'll work out ok.

The 'back in my day' argument is completely beside the point. One hundred percent beside the point. How much was rent 20 years ago? Petrol? Electricity? Houses? You cannot compare the two as we are in a completely different economic landscape.

This is not how you save the economy. You don't save it by throwing tax breaks at the upper classes. You don't save it by taking disposable income from who have little of it. You don't save it by cutting wages of penalty rate workers. You save it by raising newstart and the pension.

You think this government is thinking 'we'll lower the threshold because it is the best time for people to pay off their hecs' you're kidding yourself.

Yes, many people will benefit. And many more will not. Are you not concerned about how this whole thing - from the tax breaks right down to the hecs changes - is designed to keep the poor poor? Or as long as 'some benefit' the lower classes can just go eat cake?

And it isn't just young, single folk who have hecs debts. Many women who have interrupted their careers early to have and raise children will re-enter the workforce at the bottom later in life. Many do so after divorce. These are people who may be working menial jobs in retail likely earning just enough to now be slugged with hecs repayments. Or they may have a new debt from re-skilling.

This isn't an altruistic move to get people debt free earlier. It is a cash grab to pay for the tax cuts for the rich.

#67 casime

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:50 AM

Quote

It is the point where you have the most money. You generally have no dependents, you generally have lived life as a poor student, so not having money is normal, and it gets HECS off your commitments quickly.


Not everyone goes to university straight from school.  


Edited by casime, 05 July 2019 - 11:51 AM.


#68 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:59 AM

View Postlaridae, on 05 July 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:




The reserve bank has been calling on the government to do something. They can't keep lowering interest rates. There is not much lower they can go. If this increases spending and increases GST revenue maybe it'll work out ok.

that’s true - the reserve bank has called on the govt to do something. they can’t really go any lower on interest rates, AND if this does indeed increase spending - thus giving them more GST revenue then it *could* be a good thing...if that increased GST revenue then gets turned into increased funding for health, education, NDIS etc etc.

i have no real skin in this game - i won’t really benefit from it personally - my party - labor - supported it - possibly for the above mentioned reasons.

i’m trying to be non partisan on this - i’ve read plenty of negative opinions on it - which i nodded along with but they were playing into all my confirmation biases.

here is a positive spin -

https://www.smh.com....705-p524eu.html

i haven’t quite gone the Australian - this is fairfax - written by Switzer....Centre for Independent Studies, so - make of that what you will.

i dunno - it’s making me uneasy -

“That mindset has changed. After days of dealing, something genuinely good has emerged from Parliament: a flatter personal income tax structure that increases incentives to work harder, save more and invest in the future. The hope now is that the three-stage tax plan could reignite a broader reform agenda.“

“There is, moreover, a broader philosophical point to keep in mind. Taxes should be cut not for their own sake, but to encourage enterprise, individual responsibility and self-reliance – and boost revenue. Lower taxes boost revenues by encouraging economic activity.“

“When people see that they will pay less tax on the next dollar they earn, they’re likely to work harder to earn more dollars. Such an incentive-driven rate cut makes our society more aspirational and stimulates growth overall.“

that’s the positive spin guys. i can’t help but think they’ve hoodwinked us.





#69 Cimbom

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:08 PM

Taking out HECS from someone earning 45 or 50k makes no meaningful reduction to the total owing as the indexation is often the same amount or more than what gets taken out of their salary. No one ever talks about the cost of implementing and administering the HECS system either. It’s certainly not free to run and the costs probably outweigh the amount collected from lower income earners. Germany got rid of tuition fees for that reason - they found it was cheaper to just not charge anything to students.

It’s a bs tax on young people who already get short changed with no job security, stagnant wages, unaffordable housing and the highest cost of living in the world so we can give freebies to older demographics who grew up during the most prosperous time in history and now generally have assets and a financial position that reflects this.

I have calculated that it’ll take me until I’m about 45 to pay mine off (I’m 33) and frankly this dumb system along with my seemingly never ending mortgage makes me regularly think about just moving overseas and telling the government to shove it.

#70 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:16 PM



It is the point where you have the most money. You generally have no dependents, you generally have lived life as a poor student, so not having money is normal, and it gets HECS off your commitments quickly.



Quote

Not everyone goes to university straight from school.  

Really? Did you miss the word GENERALLY

#71 born.a.girl

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:16 PM

View Postlazycritter, on 05 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

The way it's being 'advertised' is fishy. It makes it sound like everyone below a certain income is getting 1080, but we're not. A bunch of people are going to be sorely disappointed.

The government is fishy. I don't trust them. And the


Here is the Guardian report:

https://www.theguard...&CMP=GTAU_email


Here is the ABC report:

https://www.abc.net....ou-get/11277190



Both free to read. If people choose to get their total news from the Herald Sun and Sunrise, not much anyone can do about the spin places like that will give it.

#72 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:16 PM

Quote

Germany got rid of tuition fees for that reason - they found it was cheaper to just not charge anything to students.

And that is exactly what we should do as well.

#73 casime

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:20 PM

Surely it would be more beneficial to the economy for a young person to be able to have the extra cash at a young age, when they are more likely to spend money on entertainment and luxury items, or help towards buying a home which would help the housing market?

#74 born.a.girl

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:22 PM

I agree with the notion that it's (again) women who end up with the short end of the stick.

I have two cousins.  One had the degree paid for by the parents (it was prior to free tertiary degrees). The other one had made clear to them that the parents wouldn't be supporting tertiary education. As I said, before free degrees.  Worked, got married, had children, divorced, then decided dammit, they WOULD do that degree in the field they'd always longed to work in.

She has a HECS debt of course (not a high income field, so getting paid off slowly), while he of course was able to earn a high income from an early age with his degree. Zero recognition from him of course of the reason for their differing fortunes.


Guess which one I'm close to?

#75 JRA

Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:24 PM

View Postcasime, on 05 July 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Surely it would be more beneficial to the economy for a young person to be able to have the extra cash at a young age, when they are more likely to spend money on entertainment and luxury items, or help towards buying a home which would help the housing market?

What is better for the economy and what is better for the individual?




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