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Moral Authority? Victorian Catholic Bishops denounce Vic Euthanasia Law


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45 replies to this topic

#1 archyandmehitabel

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:32 PM

The Archbishop of Melbourne, and the Bishops of Sale, Sandhurst and Ballarat have issued a statement calling the euthanasia laws 'deeply troubling'. People in Catholic hospitals and homes who want to end their lives will have to move to other facilities.

Thanks for nothing you whited sepulchres.

It is just astonishing that these men still think they have any moral authority and the right to interfere in society..

The Bishop of Ballarat, in particular, must have the hide of a rhinoceros and the empathy of a crocodile.  The Ballarat Diocese is currently fighting a case brought against it by a sexual abuse survivor of Ridsdale. It is arguing, on instructions from those named for the Dicocese, including the bishop, that they did not know that Ridsdale was a repeat offender.  Unbelievable tactics.

If he is so concerned with the sanctity of life he has enough work on his doorstep doing all he can to support the survivors who continue to suicide, not making their pain worse by fighting them through the courts, and using any spare time to try to make people in unendurable pain continue to live when they don't want to.

I have been watching a family member slowly , dying of Alzheimer's for 4 years, which is sadly not covered by this legislation. She has been miserably unhappy for 2 years, distressed and embarrassed by her increasing debilitating loss of physical and mental capacity since she had to go into full time care. She frequently has to be comforted because she is crying, saying she hates this disease and wishes she was dead. And there is nothing we can do about it.

So very angry about these ivory tower old men trying to stop the relief it can bring to others who are covered by the legislation.

#2 seayork2002

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

But if it is legal I don't see the issue (Not saying I agree with the church!!!!!!) but people are still legally able to do it?

(usual disclaimer I am well aware I am probably missing something but if it is legal now by law?)

#3 *Nasty*Squeekums*

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

Evil pricks, screw them.
I've watched my mother wither away to bones in a skin bag, not even able to speak or feed herself.
Where is the sanctity in life? That's no life, that's mere existence for no reason other than to preserve the feelies of the living. She wanted out long before she went.  
Its selfish, it's evil, it's inhumane to force people to exist just to wait in pain and suffering to die. If they want out, it's our duty to let them go
We don't allow our pets to suffer. Euthanasia is the humane, dignified end to a horrible time

#4 *Nasty*Squeekums*

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:59 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 19 June 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

But if it is legal I don't see the issue (Not saying I agree with the church!!!!!!) but people are still legally able to do it?

(usual disclaimer I am well aware I am probably missing something but if it is legal now by law?)

Only legal in Vic and the church still has big pull in other states to affect our chances of allowing people to choose a dignified end

#5 seayork2002

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:03 PM

View Post*Nasty*Squeekums*, on 19 June 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

Only legal in Vic and the church still has big pull in other states to affect our chances of allowing people to choose a dignified end

Ok, but there is no great surprise considering their views on other things (I won't mention as not to derail) but I really can't say their decision is a shock

#6 purplekitty

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:30 PM

No surprise there.
It is consistent with how they deliver other healthcare in line with their religious beliefs.

#7 Lunafreya

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:40 PM

Can’t the church just get out of health care altogether? That would make us all happy about many things.

#8 born.a.girl

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:41 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 19 June 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

But if it is legal I don't see the issue (Not saying I agree with the church!!!!!!) but people are still legally able to do it?

(usual disclaimer I am well aware I am probably missing something but if it is legal now by law?)

Google 'Darwin' & 'Euthanasia'.

#9 halcyondays

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:58 PM

Another worrying feature are public hospitals which are owned by Catholic Healthcare, like St Vincent's and the Mercy Hospital for Women.

They have threatened to openly break the law in the past.

https://www.smh.com....80923-4ml0.html

#10 maryanneK

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:31 PM

well I'm not surprised by their views and I think they are fair enough.
I'm not sure what I think about the laws. I can absolutely see the relief it would bring in those cases and the humane dying with dignity aspect. But it is also killing someone - I feel uncomfortable about that. I can imagine the pain of watching a loved one dying a horrible death, but cant imagine being happy about deliberately giving them a lethal injection.
I have no religious belief. But I can see why the church has their views. I dont see it as a group of old white men trying to impose moral views on society. Something like 30% of australians are catholic? roughly half say they are christian? So there are a lot of people holding those views in the community.

Its fair enough that a large group of people with common views has church leaders to speak on their behalf and to put forward their position. I dont see it as any different to the leaders of the dying with dignity group or whoever they are speaking out in the media and campaigning to get the laws passed.

#11 Lunafreya

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:43 PM

Quote

I have no religious belief. But I can see why the church has their views. I dont see it as a group of old white men trying to impose moral views on society. Something like 30% of australians are catholic? roughly half say they are christian? So there are a lot of people holding those views in the community.
Just because people say they are Catholic, go to mass and send their kids to catholic schools does not mean that they support everything that comes out of the mouths of these old white men.

I’m not catholic, but I know many see the clergy as out of touch and support points of view that are against church teachings. Abortion, contraception, same sex marriage, right to die etc

#12 born.a.girl

Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:29 PM

View PostmaryanneK, on 19 June 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

well I'm not surprised by their views and I think they are fair enough.
I'm not sure what I think about the laws. I can absolutely see the relief it would bring in those cases and the humane dying with dignity aspect. But it is also killing someone - I feel uncomfortable about that. I can imagine the pain of watching a loved one dying a horrible death, but cant imagine being happy about deliberately giving them a lethal injection.
I have no religious belief. But I can see why the church has their views. I dont see it as a group of old white men trying to impose moral views on society. Something like 30% of australians are catholic? roughly half say they are christian? So there are a lot of people holding those views in the community.

Its fair enough that a large group of people with common views has church leaders to speak on their behalf and to put forward their position. I dont see it as any different to the leaders of the dying with dignity group or whoever they are speaking out in the media and campaigning to get the laws passed.


The difference is:  the people themselves are choosing a peaceful death over a long and agonising one, not you.

The Catholic church is saying no one should have that right.

Let the Catholics go ahead and advise their congregation that they believe it's not right for a Catholic to take up this option. That's their prerogative, and those attending do so of free choice.

The Catholic Church DO NOT, and will NEVER have any input into the decisions I make about my health and life, and I am deeply critical of them for thinking they have that right.

It's different from the Dying with Dignity because they're not inflicting euthanasia on you. The Catholic church is inflicting the deprivation of euthanasia on everyone if they have their way.

Surely you can see the difference?


Dying with Dignity:  Choice

Catholic Church: No choice.


Which camp are you in?  (And it's o.k. to be in either, it's just no o.k. to treat them as both sides of the same coin.)

#13 archyandmehitabel

Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:53 PM

View PostmaryanneK, on 19 June 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

well I'm not surprised by their views and I think they are fair enough.
I'm not sure what I think about the laws. I can absolutely see the relief it would bring in those cases and the humane dying with dignity aspect. But it is also killing someone - I feel uncomfortable about that. I can imagine the pain of watching a loved one dying a horrible death, but cant imagine being happy about deliberately giving them a lethal injection.


I'm not surprised. Just enraged by their hypocrisy.

When you say you can imagine the pain of watching a loved one die, can you really? As bornagirl says, this isn't something you are choosing and imposing on them. it is something a person chooses for themselves.

There was a program on Triple J Hack about euthanasia. Someone rang in and said he'd watched his father die in agony over 3 days from brain cancer, shouting 'Kill me! Kill me!' Would you really rather watch that than see someone get an injection that lets them die when you knew it was what they wanted?

#14 Mollycoddle

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:01 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 19 June 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

No surprise there.
It is consistent with how they deliver other healthcare in line with their religious beliefs.

Yes.  I am hoping those Catholic health institutions aren't getting any taxpayer dollars to be run as public facilities.  If they are it should be axed immediately.

#15 purplekitty

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:03 PM

View PostMollycoddle, on 19 June 2019 - 04:01 PM, said:

Yes.  I am hoping those Catholic health institutions aren't getting any taxpayer dollars to be run as public facilities.  If they are it should be axed immediately.
Of course they are, and their accountability is less than public hospitals in some cases.


EFS.

Edited by purplekitty, 19 June 2019 - 04:21 PM.


#16 Mollycoddle

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:05 PM

View PostmaryanneK, on 19 June 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

I dont see it as a group of old white men trying to impose moral views on society. Something like 30% of australians are catholic? roughly half say they are christian? So there are a lot of people holding those views in the community.

Taking taxpayer money to run what is supposed to be a public health facility and denying certain legal treatments definitely IS the imposition of moral views.  There may be a lot of people holding similar views in the community but we pay for public hospitals to administer treatments and services to ALL.  Religious organisations, no matter the religion, have no place to be running public services in a secular society.

Edited by Mollycoddle, 19 June 2019 - 04:05 PM.


#17 71Cath

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:27 PM

The idea that the Catholic Church can claim "moral authority" over anything or anyone is ridiculous in the extreme.

#18 halcyondays

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:30 PM

There are some very interesting articles written from the perspective of Catholic theologians regarding pain and suffering. Its been deeply thought about from the perspective of using pain relief when the medication may hasten death.

From a personal viewpoint, I am not from a Christian or Catholic culture, and do not have share these views regarding pain and suffering and death. I can respect that some people have these views, and will treat them as per their wishes.
I want the Catholic church to respect mine, and allow a public hospital to treat me with dignity as I view it. This does not include transferring a dying me to another facility, which is likely to be uncomfortable, and further away from my family and loved ones in order to receive treatment can be done at my current hospital, but they choose not to to uphold their own views.

#19 purplekitty

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:36 PM

View Posthalcyondays, on 19 June 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

There are some very interesting articles written from the perspective of Catholic theologians regarding pain and suffering. Its been deeply thought about from the perspective of using pain relief when the medication may hasten death.

Mother Theresa had some unpalatable views in regards to pain and suffering.

#20 tenar

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:47 PM

The Victorian law doesn't involve a lethal injection.

It allows a person with a terminal condition who is of sound mind and likely to die in unrelenting pain in the next 6-12 months (the timeframe depends on the specifics of the condition) to choose to end their own life at a time of their choice and in the manner of their choice.  It is well thought out and deeply humane.

That the church thinks they can meaningfully weigh in on this is both ridiculous and profundly concerning.   They have no moral authority with which to do so.

#21 TheGreenSheep

Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:48 PM

Whilst I am not thoroughly surprised by their opinions, just find it galling that they wait so late in the peace to express their stance. This law has come into act today but yet they didn’t see fit to have a whine about it earlier??.. in order for people to make their own informed choices about their end state palliative care. Grrrr.


#22 nom_de_plume

Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:01 PM

Sort of off topic but not intending to derail the thread ... I heard a priest interviewed on the ABC yesterday regarding this (I’m in Vic), and towards the end of the interview they asked him what the churches’ stance was on allowing trans and intersex people to change their sex on their birth certificate without undergoing surgery (another current topical conversation). The priest replied that ‘in these instances we defer to biology and the science.’

I nearly spat out my coffee. When has the church ever deferred to science?!

#23 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:02 PM

One of the providers of inpatient palliative care in Victoria is St Vincents. They have previously said they would ban their staff from participating in VAD.

I learnt this week that any health practitioner who raises the idea of VAD with a person with a terminal illness will be deregistered. This is subject to mandatory reporting, so if another HP is aware of tis offence and  does not report it to AHPRA, they will themselves be accused of professional misconduct.

#24 purplekitty

Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:02 PM

View PostTheGreenSheep, on 19 June 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

Whilst I am not thoroughly surprised by their opinions, just find it galling that they wait so late in the peace to express their stance. This law has come into act today but yet they didn’t see fit to have a whine about it earlier??.. in order for people to make their own informed choices about their end state palliative care. Grrrr.
This has been ongoing for the last few years.

The Catholic Church made submissions to the End of Life Enquiry.

https://www.parliame...ic/article/2608

#25 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:05 PM

View PostTheGreenSheep, on 19 June 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

Whilst I am not thoroughly surprised by their opinions, just find it galling that they wait so late in the peace to express their stance. This law has come into act today but yet they didn’t see fit to have a whine about it earlier??.. in order for people to make their own informed choices about their end state palliative care. Grrrr.
Representatives from their health care organisations have been part of the consultation process all along and made their opinions clear. So it's no surprise.




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