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Ivan Milat - prisoner rights?


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51 replies to this topic

#1 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:32 AM

I have just read the news this morning that Ivan Milat has been diagnosed with terminal cancer (oesophageal).

I have a question about this and the prison system that I haven’t been able to find much on google about.

What sort of treatment will Milat be entitled to?

Will he have the same right to any/all life prolonging medications and treatments that an ordinary citizen does?

Even in the public healthcare system, there are out of pocket costs for cancer treatments. So I am curious if criminals like Milat are entitled to these treatments for free?

This is a genuine question, I really don’t know how the system works.

#2 CallMeFeral

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:42 AM

Really interesting question, I'd be interested too - especially re the out of pocket fees.

#3 molinero

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:49 AM

Pretty sure he will be entitled to a standard level of treatment, but it won't be the 'gold star' of terminal illness treatment that others in this country may be able to access.

With terminal inmates like this, it is often the case that they end up dying in the hospital ward with no one by their side.

That, in the end, is their ultimate punishment.

#4 ~J_WTF~

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:53 AM

Standard level of treatment pretty much.

#5 annodam

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:54 AM

I know this sounds harsh but I hope he receives no treatment.
He gave up that right when he took the lives of all those innocent people, he has shattered many lives with his actions.

I hope his suffering continues for eternity & I do not apologise for my way of thinking.

#6 purplekitty

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:57 AM

What out of pocket costs do you mean?

#7 luke's mummu

Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:58 AM

I’m sure prisoners are entities to basically medical care including chemotherapy, but his cancer is too far advanced. They wouldn’t need to pay a gap for public treatment at a public hospital.

I’m distressed to think he gets to die an old man peacefully in his bed when his young victims would have most likely been terrified and in pain. Just doesn’t seem fair

#8 ~J_WTF~

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:01 AM

View Postluke, on 16 May 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:


I’m distressed to think he gets to die an old man peacefully in his bed when his young victims would have most likely been terrified and in pain. Just doesn’t seem fair

Peacefully?

Have you watched anyone die from terminal cancer? Peaceful is not what I would call it...

Edited spelling.

Edited by ~J_WTF~, 16 May 2019 - 10:06 AM.


#9 *Nasty*Squeekums*

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:09 AM

View Postluke, on 16 May 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:


I’m distressed to think he gets to die an old man peacefully in his bed when his young victims would have most likely been terrified and in pain. Just doesn’t seem fair

Take comfort with terminal cancer he will be in pain, have no dignity, become a skeleton in skin.

I watched my mother die slowly and painfully from cancer, there is no peace till the final breath is taken

I'd assume he would get basic level care

#10 Mollycoddle

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:10 AM

Without reading the replies yet, my view is that the deprivation of liberty is the punishment and it shouldn't go beyond that.  Yes, the crimes were despicable and he has already had a good number of years more than his victims have had.  Any death from cancer isn't pleasant so in a way there is some justice being served there.

ETA just read the OP, agree it would be a basic level of treatment as afforded to anyone under Medicare.

Edited by Mollycoddle, 16 May 2019 - 10:11 AM.


#11 seayork2002

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:12 AM

I would expect he would get what every other prisoner gets when it comes to medical treatment.

I don't have to like what he has done to think it would unacceptable to say something like 'oh you robbed a bank so you can go to a private hospital but you killed people so you go public' or whatever

I doubt they have a hierarchy of medical treatment

a prisoner should get whatever everyone gets in there

#12 Fresh Start

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:12 AM

View Postpurplekitty, on 16 May 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

What out of pocket costs do you mean?

I see what you did there!

#13 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:13 AM

View Postpurplekitty, on 16 May 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

What out of pocket costs do you mean?

I mean the gap between actual costs and what Medicare covers.

“A recent report from the Consumers Health Forum of Australia (CHF) found that half of Australians with cancer have out-of-pocket costs in excess of $5000.”

Source: https://www.smh.com....412-p51dlf.html

#14 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:17 AM

View PostMollycoddle, on 16 May 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

Without reading the replies yet, my view is that the deprivation of liberty is the punishment and it shouldn't go beyond that.  Yes, the crimes were despicable and he has already had a good number of years more than his victims have had.  Any death from cancer isn't pleasant so in a way there is some justice being served there.

ETA just read the OP, agree it would be a basic level of treatment as afforded to anyone under Medicare.

I agree that the deprivation of liberty is the punishment. He hasn’t been given a death sentence in our justice system

But

It seems that if I am a public patient in our healthcare system and I have cancer, then I am highly likely to have out of pocket costs above and beyond what is covered by Medicare for my treatment to the order or thousands of dollars in many cases.

Will Milat get this same level of service for free?

#15 #YKG

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:27 AM

What out of pocket costs are you referring to?

Chemo, unless oral is covered by PBS under the public system, pain meds and anti nausea or other meds are paid for by patient. The initial diagnosis and treatment would have been at the prison, not sure the arrangement there with treatment of out of pocket meds.

Given he’s terminal and would be in palliative care, he’d get the same care as a non custodial patient, at this point it’s pretty well covered by Medicare, it’s pretty much about pain relief st this point.

Reading that article is talking mostly about patients who elect to go through private radiology like MIA etc for scans, unless you elect to be treated privately in a public hospital or elect to see an oncologist privately, it’s unlikely those costs will be incurred. My friends dad just passed away from cancer, their out of pocket expense was parking, non intravenous meds taken at home. Depending on what you elect will greatly differ on the out of pocket expenses that each individual patient may or may not incur.

Edited by #YKG, 16 May 2019 - 10:31 AM.


#16 steppy

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:28 AM

If he's dying of cancer I'm sure that's not going to be pleasant.

#17 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:35 AM

Ok, thanks YKG that’s very informative.

Looks like in Milats case the out of pocket costs would be pretty minimal.

Still it’s made me think a bit. Even with the pain medication factor. Makes me a bit angry that Milat would get morphine etc for free and your friend’s dad had to pay for his non IV meds.

#18 purplekitty

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:36 AM

He is entitled to the public medical care everyone else is.

The other care is usually delivered in the prison hospital,it may not be optimal.

Would he have been diagnosed earlier if he was not in prison?

View Postluke, on 16 May 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

I’m sure prisoners are entities to basically medical care including chemotherapy, but his cancer is too far advanced. They wouldn’t need to pay a gap for public treatment at a public hospital.

I’m distressed to think he gets to die an old man peacefully in his bed when his young victims would have most likely been terrified and in pain. Just doesn’t seem fair

What about the staff who care for him? It is traumatising to watch someone not being adequately treated who requires palliative care.

View Postpeckingbird, on 16 May 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

I mean the gap between actual costs and what Medicare covers.

“A recent report from the Consumers Health Forum of Australia (CHF) found that half of Australians with cancer have out-of-pocket costs in excess of $5000.”

Source: https://www.smh.com....412-p51dlf.html

I think it is all free to the prisoner.

#19 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:40 AM

What happens to a person’s assets if they are sentenced to life in prison?

Does their money just there in the bank until they die?

#20 #YKG

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:40 AM

View Postpeckingbird, on 16 May 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ok, thanks YKG that’s very informative.

Looks like in Milats case the out of pocket costs would be pretty minimal.

Still it’s made me think a bit. Even with the pain medication factor. Makes me a bit angry that Milat would get morphine etc for free and your friend’s dad had to pay for his non IV meds.

The pain meds taken at home he paid for, once in hospital in palliative care, was covered under Medicare PBS even if oral. Not everyone is prescribed morphine for pain relief. There are a few different drugs, at the end of the day his medical care will be on par with non custodial patients, difference is, he’ll be in a locked down room with security/police guard.

#21 ~J_WTF~

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:41 AM

View Postpeckingbird, on 16 May 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ok, thanks YKG that’s very informative.

Looks like in Milats case the out of pocket costs would be pretty minimal.

Still it’s made me think a bit. Even with the pain medication factor. Makes me a bit angry that Milat would get morphine etc for free and your friend’s dad had to pay for his non IV meds.

What’s the alternative? Make the staff caring for watch him die a distressing death.

I get why people wish this people a painful death on these people but someone who is just doing their job has to be witness to that and I just can’t support that!

#22 Kreme

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:41 AM

View Postpurplekitty, on 16 May 2019 - 10:36 AM, said:


What about the staff who care for him? It is traumatising to watch someone not being adequately treated who requires palliative care.


This. It’s important to remember that there will be doctors and nurses treating him. We can’t turn them into de facto executioners just to satisfy our own need for revenge.

#23 peckingbird

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:44 AM

View PostKreme, on 16 May 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:



This. It’s important to remember that there will be doctors and nurses treating him. We can’t turn them into de facto executioners just to satisfy our own need for revenge.

Totally agree. And I personally don’t believe he should be denied pain medication but I’m just curious about who pays for it.

#24 TheGreenSheep

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:47 AM

He’s now at Prince if Wales Hospital Randwick, in the prison ward. He will receive the same medical treatment under Medicare given to any patient admitted to a public hospital. The only out of pocket costs would be if he were given an expensive non PBS medication. Hardly going to happen at the terminal end of his cancer.

#25 Soontobegran

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:47 AM

Milat has been on so many hunger strikes in his time in prison they are unlikely to have paid much attention to his weight loss. I would think that the prison would have acted on any complaints of pain and other symptoms in a timely manner so my guess is that he did not make a fuss.
The prison health centre is staffed with people who are able to separate their feelings about the prisoner and their duty of care which is why I would never have gone into this type of nursing.

I have looked after several prisoners in the public system....many in general nursing and then in midwifery and aside from the fact they have guards you'd not know they were any different from other patients when it comes to the care they are afforded.
He will be getting exactly the same care as any other patient with the same diagnosis all under the medicare system which will mean palliative too. He will most likely go into palliative care in another facility if he actually gets out of hospital from this admission.

I am not a supporter of an eye for an eye in criminal terms but the fact that I can not muster up sympathy is unsettling to me a little. :(




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