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4.5yo toilet training- Pulling hair out!


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#1 Holidayromp

Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:35 PM

I have a preschooler due to start school next year who will.not.sit.on (insert potty, toilet, toilet with seat insert) nothing will work.

He just uses his undies just like a nappy.  He has a night nappy and know that night training comes after day training.

I am going through soooooo much washing.

He has no currency and Nil, zero,zip interest in being toilet trained.

He even poos in his undies.

I am at my wits end as I am a wahp and don’t have time for it and zero village to help.

We are now into week two and still yet to sit on the potty.

I tried him late last year which was a complete disaster.

He knows when he is wet/dry and has bladder control but won’t use the toilet.

I have successfully toilet trained two girls around 3 and a boy around 4.

I’m sick of the judgement and the ‘need to sort it out’ but if I cannot get the kid on the toilet what bloody hope do I have toilet training him?!!

Any ideas please?

#2 Caribou

Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:40 PM

View PostHolidayromp, on 06 May 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

I have a preschooler due to start school next year who will.not.sit.on (insert potty, toilet, toilet with seat insert) nothing will work.

He just uses his undies just like a nappy.  He has a night nappy and know that night training comes after day training.

I am going through soooooo much washing.

He has no currency and Nil, zero,zip interest in being toilet trained.

He even poos in his undies.

I am at my wits end as I am a wahp and don’t have time for it and zero village to help.

We are now into week two and still yet to sit on the potty.

I tried him late last year which was a complete disaster.

He knows when he is wet/dry and has bladder control but won’t use the toilet.

I have successfully toilet trained two girls around 3 and a boy around 4.

I’m sick of the judgement and the ‘need to sort it out’ but if I cannot get the kid on the toilet what bloody hope do I have toilet training him?!!

Any ideas please?

Will his dad help? Sometimes switching parents helps.

What about childcare? Do you use them? They may able to help too? I think sometimes kids just make it harder because it’s their parent. They know they’re safe.

#3 iwanttosleepin

Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:43 PM

At that age and that amount of defiance I would suggest you need some professional help.

I have a 4.5 year old boy and I can't image trying to toilet train him at this age - it would be a nightmare as they are so much more strong willed and obnoxious compared to 2 year olds.  And much less bribable.

You should be able to find a continence clinic in your area.  Maybe other members might have suggestions.

My only other suggestion is does he go to daycare or kindergarten?  Could they help take the lead?

#4 Kiwi Bicycle

Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:50 PM

Ok, what is his currency? Extreme bribery may have to happen and no, not just a m and m, I mean something he really wants. And he has to be able to achieve it. So don't go and buy a toy and stick it on a shelf and say he can have it when he is trained, I mean you are going to have to reward him for just sitting on the toilet even.
I was lucky that Hot Wheels cars and Surprizamals worked for the small steps (like doing a poo in his nappy while standing next to the toilet)  but later I had to up the prize to small Lego sets. Then to establish consistency I went for a big Lego set and multiple stickers to achieve.
Small rewards like stickers, chocolate, extra screen time didn't work. And don't worry, one year since TT and he doesn't expect rewards anymore. So break it down to steps. First, doing it in the room with the toilet ( I had to drag DS out of bedroom where he would lean on the door so I couldn't get in), then sitting on the toilet with undies or nappy and so on.

If all else fails there are TT experts who have seen it all and can offer more help. If you are in Melbourne,  I reccomend Toilet Training Educators. And know you are not alone being a frustrated parent. I was in 18 months of TT hell last year.

#5 seayork2002

Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:05 PM

with my son if he thought we wanted hm to do anything that is it he would do the total opposite (bit like politicians I think kids are).

I would just stop and ignore the issue (for a set period of time) but go over the top with praise if he does anything

maybe put the potty in new and creative areas with a book, toy right near it but just totally ignore that it is there.

#6 ipsee

Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:17 PM

I would try to get him to sit on the potty with undies on as a first step.

#7 ineedmorecoffee

Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:18 PM

I think you would have tried everything by now and its time to get professional help. Would start with GP and insist on a referral to a clinic or dev. paediatrician.

Good luck, I hated tt and found it to be one of the most trying aspects of parenting.

#8 Octopodes

Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:20 PM

I think it's time to call in the experts. Start with a trip to the GP.

#9 WTFancie shmancie

Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:35 PM

When he wees/poos in his undies, who cleans him up?

If you do it, stop and make him clean himself and whatever else needs cleaning up eg. floor

Unless he has special needs, it is likely that any accidents at school he will be responsible for cleaning himself up - or the school will call you to come to school to do it.

#10 WaitForMe

Posted 06 May 2019 - 02:51 PM

A kid without currency, I can't comprehend!

Surely theres something. IPad? Maybe he can only use it when on the potty.

Or money. By that age my eldest was very keen on money. Start with just sitting on the toilet/potty.

#11 gracie1978

Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:33 PM

If it makes you feel better OP I have a 4.5yo boy who just won't sit on a toilet either, will wait for a nappy or poo his undies.

I'm at my wits end, have tried bribing him with everything imaginable

He was fine for a few months and now is just refusing, I'm so fed up.
Every single thing people have suggested we have tried.  I think we need help beyond the OT and paed.

Edited by gracie1978, 06 May 2019 - 04:33 PM.


#12 afterlaughter

Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:41 PM

I would check out Janet Lansbury articles on this type of thing. She has a unique approach but have found her advice effective in many situations with my daughter.

#13 afterlaughter

Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:43 PM

https://www.janetlan...les-4-year-old/


https://www.janetlan...g-isnt-working/

#14 babycuddler

Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:23 PM

Have you tried a toddler urinal? They just suction cup onto the wall and you empty it into toilet after each wee. Catch of the day has the frog ones that spin when weed on.

#15 Lallalla

Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:30 PM

He’s a bit older, but have you tried a potty that only sings if you make a deposit (there is no “flush” button like some of them have, it has weight sensors in it)? I did this with my almost 3 year old toilet refusing kid and was incredulous at how much it worked. It helps if you have another tt’d kid to show them how to make it sing. Also they are horrendously expensive but the cheap rip off I got on eBay works just as well.

#16 Holidayromp

Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

Thank you so much for all of your replies.

He almost broke me today which resulted in sh*t all down the hallway a massive puddle of wee across the new carpet in the play area.

As his mother I know he isn’t developmentally ready.

He started walking just before his 2nd birthday, he cannot yet talk in complete sentences (his speech is definitely developing just in his own time) and other examples that actually puts him a year younger than what he currently is so realistically, for him this is normal.

I am also getting pressure to put him into school well before he is ready.

It’s not uncommon for him to get into pencils, crayons etc and draw over the walls, get into his older sister’s hair product and smear that everywhere how can I hope that he will keep his hands off other students things let alone listen (he will not listen to anyone).

So obviously this is adding to the pressure of getting him tt.

#17 TeaLover

Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:54 PM

HR I don’t reply much around here but I read a lot, I just wanted to send commiserations. My DS is almost 4.5 and in a very similar position. It’s so difficult when you have a child that doesn’t follow the norm. We’re currently seeing a speech therapist, OT and GP has referred us to see a paed. I also need to get off my butt and call a child psychologist. Toileting is the bane of my existence. He doesn’t care if he poos in his undies, and no currency has ever worked for him either. Hang in there.

#18 Ellie bean

Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

Have you tried pull ups? I would not give him the choice of undies, pull ups only in those circumstances
I think professional help is a great idea
Good luck

#19 PrincessPeach

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:23 PM

If you are worried about other areas of his development, could you get him assessed by a developmental peadiatrician?

If that throws anything out there it might give you aid time at school to at least help with this situation.

#20 Paddlepop

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:42 PM

HR: I think you might want to consider taking your DS to a dev. paed. for an assessment. He has delays in numerous areas, and has other red flags for developmental issues like a lack of currency. How are his fine motor skills? I definitely think that at the very least an OT might be helpful for his toileting, and a speechie to assess his verbal skills.

#21 Soontobegran

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:48 PM

Change the narrative.
Tell him he is going into pull ups.....hide all his undies and do not discuss again for a few weeks. Pretend it is not a problem to you at all.
Even though it is not developmentally abnormal to be like this if you feel that he has developmental issues that are separate to TT then see your GP for a referral to a paediatrician.






Main advice is to not listen to anyone who tells you that you are not doing it right.

Edited by Soontobegran, 13 May 2019 - 04:51 PM.


#22 BusbyWilkes

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:48 PM

View PostHolidayromp, on 13 May 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

Thank you so much for all of your replies.

He almost broke me today which resulted in sh*t all down the hallway a massive puddle of wee across the new carpet in the play area.

As his mother I know he isn’t developmentally ready.

He started walking just before his 2nd birthday, he cannot yet talk in complete sentences (his speech is definitely developing just in his own time) and other examples that actually puts him a year younger than what he currently is so realistically, for him this is normal.

I am also getting pressure to put him into school well before he is ready.

It’s not uncommon for him to get into pencils, crayons etc and draw over the walls, get into his older sister’s hair product and smear that everywhere how can I hope that he will keep his hands off other students things let alone listen (he will not listen to anyone).

So obviously this is adding to the pressure of getting him tt.

I know you're asking about/venting about toileting, but from your extra information, it sounds like he is fairly globally delayed. Do you see therapists? Has he been assessed by a developmental paediatrician?

The benefits of having these delays diagnosed is that he may get extra help at school, or at least understanding and modification of expectations. Even if you choose not to send him to school next year (where is the pressure coming from?) if his gross motor, language, toileting, behaviour is delayed as you describe, he may not just "catch up" even with the extra year.

Any sort of diagnosis, if there is one, doesn't change who he is. He will still be your awesome little guy. It may just help with others (and your own) understanding of how best to help him. Good luck.



#23 seayork2002

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:50 PM

View PostSoontobegran, on 13 May 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

Change the narrative.
Tell him he is going into pull ups.....hide all his undies and do not discuss again for a few weeks. Pretend it is not a problem to you at all.
He is not developmentally abnormal to be like this but you are stressed and he will feel it.

It will happen and happen overnight when he is ready. There is a long time before school.


Main advice is to not listen to anyone who tells you that you are not doing it right.

This!

#24 Navy Blue

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:54 PM

I've toilet trained four boys and IME they won't go til they're ready.

One child was easily bribable and eager to please, he pretty much toilet trained himself. The other three did not go until they were good and ready.

I was pulling my hair out with DS4, kinder was looming for him and he was still not interested at all. Literally a few days before the school year started he suddenly decided to go the toilet. And has done since that day. This was preceded by several months of me saying 'you HAVE to go to the toilet at kinder', so who knows maybe he thought he could put it off til then?!

If there's still a while til he starts school, and you're both over it maybe leave it for now. A gp appt probably wouldn't hurt, or continence nurse at the health centre in the meantime, just to check it out.

#25 iwanttosleepin

Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:15 PM

I have a 4.5 year old boy and so your post is ringing serious alarm bells for me.  It sounds like you might need to seek out some professional help across the board.

Simply delaying school and waiting for him to develop might not be enough with the various issues you have mentioned.  It might be time for some some additional professional support.

I would start with your GP and get a referral to a developmental paediatrician.




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