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"Judge says man having sex with wife is 'fundamental human right':


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#1 katpaws

Posted 03 April 2019 - 11:55 AM

I don't think I have any words in regards to this.

Quote

The remark was made by Mr Justice Hayden, who had been asked to consider imposing a court order preventing a man from having sex with his wife of 20 years because she may no longer be able to give her consent...


Social service officials believe there is evidence that she no longer has the capacity to make decisions about whether she wants to have sex and therefore cannot freely give her consent. Lawyers have suggested that a judge might have to bar the husband from continuing to have sex with his wife in order to ensure that the woman is not raped...

“I cannot think of any more obviously fundamental human right than the right of a man to have sex with his wife – and the right of the state to monitor that,” he said. “I think he is entitled to have it properly argued.”

link

#2 Jane Jetson

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

I have a lot of words, but they are the sort which would get me heavily moderated and probably warned.

The growth (or possibly just the uncovering, which would be my bet) of truly regressive attitudes towards women in the Anglosphere is appalling and needs to be fought tooth and nail.

#3 j-gray

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:02 PM

He can't think of any more obviously fundamental human right ? Ah, I think the right of not having someone force themselves on you would have to be higher up the list.

#4 spr_maiden

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:04 PM

You've got to be ****ing kidding me!

#5 ~Bob~

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:12 PM

“I cannot think of any more obviously fundamental human right than the right of a man to have sex with his wife”

Oh a few things roll off the top of my head...

The right of a woman to be able to walk home without being raped or murdered
The right of a woman to be able to sit in her house without being raped or murdered
The right of a woman to have the legal system protect her, should she find herself a victim of a violent man
The right of a child to go to church without being molested
The right of a child to be safe in their own home, without being harmed or molested
The right of a child in the third world to have access to food and clean water

I mean, I could go on, but no, the right of a man to get laid doesn’t really make my top 500 list of human rights.

#6 molinero

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:13 PM

Marital rape is illegal in Britain.

There is a human right to express one's sexuality (e.g. one's sexual orientation). But there is no human right to physically have sex.

And yet some ppl still believe the legal system is free from gender bias.....

#7 WTF_SM3

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:21 PM

Disgusting and scary.  There's no such thing as the right to have sex with your spouse.  There is a right not to have sex if you cant or don't consent.

You have the right to leave a relationship if your sex drives are mismatched or if your partner can't or won't have sex.
You don't have the right to rape them. And sex without consent is rape. This judges reasoning is scary.

#8 EsmeLennox

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:29 PM

:omg:
Horrifying.

#9 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:30 PM

jesus judge.....there is no “human right” to have sex with anyone....there is no entitlement to our bodies. consent to sex may be granted - not assumed - and may equally be withdrawn. if consent is not express and indeed - enthusiastic - err on the side of caution and maybe assume it hasn’t been granted.


#10 South Coast

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:31 PM

I think this is one of the most horrid things I have ever read....

#11 Freddie'sMum

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:32 PM

I read this and couldn't believe what I read.

Horrifying beyond words.  Just gob smacking awful.

#12 71Cath

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:34 PM

My ex certainly believed the same thing...

:(

#13 purplekitty

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:34 PM

The masks are coming off.

#14 Kallie88

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:35 PM

But.. it's a scary time to be a man // heavy heavy use of sarcasm

#15 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:38 PM

oh this is a UK decision? not that that makes it any better - or worse....i just assumed that was an australian family court judge - although, regrettably - i gather many australian judges would think the same thing. the poms have form on this though...very antiquated views wrt marriage and a wife’s “duty”.


#16 Moukmouk

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:48 PM

I looked him up. He’s a judge in the High Court of Justice (family division). He’s an expert in these sorts of matters. He was the judge in the baby Alfie trial, where he overturned the parents wishes and supported the hospital to terminate life support. He has in the past made some very supportive comments regarding victims of DV. Which makes this comment all the more horrifying. Has he let slip what he really thinks?

#17 magic_marker

Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:50 PM

Place your left hand on the Bible.

Raise your right hand.

There's your right hand mate. You know what to do with it!

No consent = rape.

#18 ipsee

Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:12 PM

OMG

#19 nori_roll

Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:33 PM

View PostMoukmouk, on 03 April 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

I looked him up. He’s a judge in the High Court of Justice (family division). He’s an expert in these sorts of matters. He was the judge in the baby Alfie trial, where he overturned the parents wishes and supported the hospital to terminate life support. He has in the past made some very supportive comments regarding victims of DV. Which makes this comment all the more horrifying. Has he let slip what he really thinks?

From reading a British forum it would seem there's a possibility this has been misrepresented in the media (copying and pasting from a couple of posts from another (British) forum.  Note I am not a lawyer and have no idea whether this is true or not!)

"This is dry legal argument that the media is never able to report properly or accurately. Honestly it's not worth getting hot and bothered about. It's an area of law that needs proper legal clarification. The judge might well have been better saying that it is a fundamental right of a couple within a marriage to have sex with each other but heck, he's a man and who knows if he was quoted accurately?

That said, since rape within marriage only became a crime in the 1990's there are plenty of mentally able women who have had to deal with their husbands claiming their 'conjugal rights' with no possibility of redress if they wanted to refuse. Let's just be pleased that the law is seeking to clarify something and the husband is being co-operative."


and

"I think that the reporting is misleading.
My understanding is that they have been married fo9r 20 years and although she has some learning difficulties there has been no concerns.
The issue now is that she is suffering a mental health condition which, combined with her learning difficulties, means that she doesn't have capacity to give consent.
The husband has offered to make a legal declaration that they won't have sex. The judge has said that he would rather try the case. If the husband makes a declaration and then if she gets better and they do have sex he would be would be a rapist (legally, even if she were able to consent and a willing participant), and the judges (ill advised) statement is a reflection of that scenario.
The matter is deserving of testing in court."




and

"Nothing the judge said has been reported except for one partial sentence. He could have been taken out of context. He could have been misogynistic. We don't know.


For example, we have thousands upon thousands of dementia sufferers in the country, many of whom are married. Do we think that carers should be assessing capacity to consent for each of them? Should the point at which a person loses capacity to consent be adjudicated in court every single time? Or do we think that in most, normal, non-abusive marriages, spouses don't force sex on incapacitated partners and the state should only intervene when there are specific safeguarding concerns? "

Not excusing the judge, if that's what he said, just there might be more to it than has been reported.

Edited by nori_roll, 03 April 2019 - 01:34 PM.


#20 ~J_WTF~

Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:35 PM

Well then I assume breaking said mans penis when he tries to take his fundamental right is self defence...

#21 angelam pacificae

Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:46 PM

The way I read it, he means that a couple has the right to choose to have sex, without the state unnecessarily preventing it (so it's not a right to rape, it's a right not to be prevented from having consensual sex).

Terribly ambiguously worded, though.  

I think it's awful all round; what if she wants to have sex with her husband?  She's not allowed to, either?

Messy and possibly heart-breaking for them both.

#22 schwatzen

Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:51 PM

How old is he? 150? Time to retire!

#23 CallMeFeral

Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:06 PM

It's a horrendous sentence to utter.

But reading the article, it seems like he's phrased things really badly and it's now being taken out of context.

#24 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:12 PM

it seems he may have been taken out of context but still, terrible turn of phrase. why term it as a right? there is no right to sex.....no legal right to sex. he says it’s deserving of being tested in court, yes ok - i agree with him. maybe saying “there is a reasonable argument here that consent may be an issue, so let’s test that.”


#25 Pooks Combusted

Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:18 PM

I think it’s a horrifying sentence but I don’t think the way the sentence reads alone, reflects his intention. I also that the issue of consent with aging and disability considerations is something that has to be treated very carefully, because there is a tension between a person’s perceived capacity and their right to a healthy sex life (whatever that means for them and their partner/s). A judicial decision could have consequences for others.

I hope I’m right because the alternative is horrifying.




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