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How do you not become jaded with all the abuse out there?


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#1 anon039

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:52 AM

After reading the thread on Cardinal Pell, it was disturbing to read stories about many people that have been through horrendous abuse.

Many people mentioned that these were people that no one would suspect. Great members of society, great dads, great with kids etc.

I’m divorced and one day want to meet someone. All these stories, on top of what I already know from people around me and their experiences really scares me.
What if I miss the signs and end up with one of these?
It’s one of my biggest fears.

I don’t want to lose faith in mankind and I also don’t want to assume that every man is a paedophile or abuser in some way. I know there are good men but a lot of these creeps were disguise as good men.

I really want to see the good but recently it’s been too hard.

Is trusting your gut really enough?

Would love some worlds of wisdom.

Edited by anon039, 13 March 2019 - 07:58 AM.


#2 Kallie88

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:58 AM

I think all you can do is know the signs, trust your gut and hope for the best. Things like the no test are good for signs of abusive or controlling behaviors.

#3 anon039

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:59 AM

View PostKallie88, on 13 March 2019 - 07:58 AM, said:

I think all you can do is know the signs, trust your gut and hope for the best. Things like the no test are good for signs of abusive or controlling behaviors.

What’s the no test?

#4 ~J_WTF~

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:02 AM

I focus on the men in my life that have never let me down or shown me to be anything but decent kind humans.

That makes me realise there there must be more out there.

My DH is one of these men.

#5 Serinitynow

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:03 AM

I think you can’t just trust your gut. You need to actively enquire and protect your kids. For example, I trust my husband, my father and my brothers in law implicitly (these are the only men who spend time alone with any of my kids). But I still keep an eye on interactions and ensure my kids know they can always tell me anything about anyone and we discuss what is appropriate fairly regularly.

#6 Crazy4

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:21 AM

I have no idea and it is something that plays on my mind too as my children are the age of starting to have sleep overs. I’ve been having conversations with them recently (since watching Leaving Neverland) that nobody is allowed to touch you in certain areas and that includes mummy and daddy and if anybody did then you will never get in trouble for telling me and I will always believe you. The statistics scare me. I have 4 children and to think that statistically one of them could go through this breaks me into a million pieces.

#7 -Belinda-

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:22 AM

The no test:

http://www.impactfor...l-and-important

#8 ~J_WTF~

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:26 AM

View PostCrazy4, on 13 March 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

I have no idea and it is something that plays on my mind too as my children are the age of starting to have sleep overs. I’ve been having conversations with them recently (since watching Leaving Neverland) that nobody is allowed to touch you in certain areas and that includes mummy and daddy and if anybody did then you will never get in trouble for telling me and I will always believe you. The statistics scare me. I have 4 children and to think that statistically one of them could go through this breaks me into a million pieces.

The problem with saying no one is allowed is that there may be a point where parents or a doctor need to touch them in that places. So we tend to go with no one is allowed to touch you without your permission or without mum or dad present. Also if you feel uncomfortable or someone is asking you to keep it a secret then that isn’t ok and you should tell one of your safe people.

#9 seayork2002

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:37 AM

View Post~J_F~, on 13 March 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

The problem with saying no one is allowed is that there may be a point where parents or a doctor need to touch them in that places. So we tend to go with no one is allowed to touch you without your permission or without mum or dad present. Also if you feel uncomfortable or someone is asking you to keep it a secret then that isn’t ok and you should tell one of your safe people.

This, last year DS had to go to the doctors and had a wee problem, the doctor had to look there so I explained before we went in what was going to happen (well may happen) and I was with him at the time explained as we went, he was still a little confused but was fine with it as I was with him.

He is having year 6 interrelate (modern sex ed) and had year 5 last year.

I went to the parent talk and they mentioned they do explain 'private parts' but also there are times as you mentioned where doctors need to look

Edited by seayork2002, 13 March 2019 - 08:39 AM.


#10 No Drama Please

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:45 AM

View PostCrazy4, on 13 March 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

nobody is allowed to touch you in certain areas and that includes mummy and daddy and if anybody did then you will never get in trouble for telling me and I will always believe you.
I do same as PP absolutely anybody including me and daddy, Teachers, other students, babysitters. Grandparents anybody. Kids helpline number is on the fridge. There are no secrets. No topic is off limits to talk to me about.

I also ask their permission to use medication on them and explain what it is and why they have to have it eg; you have a rash, I need to put this cream on, it’s to get rid of the rash, is that okay. They might not like it but they know what it is and why I’m doing it.

It’s probably OTT but I work in an area where we are exposed to incidents of child abuse almost every day. I’d rather take it too far than to just hope if I try and shield them from what’s out there then nothing will ever happen.

#11 schwatzen

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:50 AM

Yeah, no i don't trust anyone and i assume that every male is a predator whether they're a stranger or someone i know. Just accept it and live life accordingly. Drill it into your children to speak up to you about people who make them feel uncomfortable, get them to listen to that flippy feeling in their stomach, get them to understand grooming tactics, make sure you teach them and they have firm boundaries.

My parents did this to me and i am forever grateful. I do this to my daughter too. She doesn't need the world sugarcoated for her. It is what it is. She doesn't go to sleep at night afraid. She feels prepared.

Trust is for suckers IMO.

#12 JoanJett

Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:38 AM

Abusers rely on access, power, establishing "special" relationships and secrecy.  They exploit children's trust and disrupt a child's trust and faith in others to believe in them, their innocence and their lack of complicity.  Abusers are not all adult males - they can be women and they can be other children/teenagers, particularly if they have been exposed to abuse themselves.

The most important thing you can do is constantly discuss and reinforce bodily autonomy.  Proper names for body parts and discussing why certain body parts are considered "private" (don't forget mouths) - that means appropriate sex education at their level from a young age.  It's also important for them for laying down the foundations of ensuring explicit consent in healthy sexual relationships as young adults.

We have long discussed the concept of coercion and what it looks like in practice and how it makes you feel.  We discuss the "warning" signs of the body that place you on high alert and what to do in those settings.  We talk about "good" secrets that are ok to keep and "bad" secrets that make you uncomfortable and that you should share with a trusted adult.

You can never remove the risk of abuse, but you can reduce it by educating your child and keeping open lines of communication.

Edited by JoanJett, 13 March 2019 - 09:40 AM.


#13 Kallie88

Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:59 AM

And when it comes to children more than anything else believe them if that say something. Make sure they know you will believe them if anything happens to them.

I'm currently dealing with my 3yo's fascination with kissing on the mouth (I don't care if other people do it with their kids but we don't) so I keep firm boundaries around my comfort so she knows what it looks like, if she asks to kiss me on the lips I say no, I don't want you to kiss me on the lips, you can kiss my cheek or forehead. I also have to keep telling her not to miss the baby on the lips (mostly coz germs). Tbc I know this isn't sexual for her, it's normal curiosity, just relevant for consent and boundaries

#14 schwatzen

Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:29 AM

https://www.dailymai...-two-girls.html

Just saw this. I feel vindicated pulling my DD out of swimming class and insisted on one-on-one lessons with a female instructor.

#15 Pooks Combusted

Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:47 AM

Anyone could be a predator, life can end in an instant at any time and we are never safe. That’s reality. You can cope with that reality in a variety of ways. Our society seems to prefer delusion because it’s profitable.

#16 amdirel

Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:54 AM

I just hope for the best tbh.
Given that kids can be abused by their trusted fathers, brothers, grandfathers, how can I sit there and stress about every single other person in the world, if the people the child is very closest to could also be an abuser? Honestly I'd be an absolute mess if I stopped and critically analysed and put restrictions on every person that ever came near my children.

My kids have done all the education. I do go on gut instinct sometimes, but sometimes not, as I don’t necessarily believe it's reliable anyway.

#17 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 13 March 2019 - 11:41 AM

I'm not jaded at the moment.  I'm angry.  F$#* furious!

As per the above posters, I have tried to inure my children from danger.  Tried to keep open communication and trust so that they know they can come to me with anything.  Tried to prevent opportunities for predators.

I'm also angry because I'm afraid.  My kids are 13 and 14.  What if it's already happened?  What if they haven't told me?  

And DD is soon to go on an overseas exchange.

I'm angry and terrified.  But also trying not to lose sight of the good men. Men that I do trust.  And hopeful that both my children don't come across people that will hurt them.

And depressed and sad about all the people that have been hurt, that will be hurt in the future.

Which brings me back to the anger of helplessness.

#18 Crazy4

Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:59 PM

View Post~J_F~, on 13 March 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:



The problem with saying no one is allowed is that there may be a point where parents or a doctor need to touch them in that places. So we tend to go with no one is allowed to touch you without your permission or without mum or dad present. Also if you feel uncomfortable or someone is asking you to keep it a secret then that isn’t ok and you should tell one of your safe people.

I know, i agree but I haven’t quite worked out the best way to explain consent yet as I don’t want to confuse my kids too much. Since in theory the two boys in Leaving Neverland consented to having sex with MJ because he convinced them it was normal.

#19 Crazyone26989

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:18 PM

View PostCrazy4, on 13 March 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:



I know, i agree but I haven’t quite worked out the best way to explain consent yet as I don’t want to confuse my kids too much. Since in theory the two boys in Leaving Neverland consented to having sex with MJ because he convinced them it was normal.

The way my colleagues and I (teachers) phrase it is that no one, including mum, dad, doctors, can touch you without permission and a REASON. We then discuss what those reasons would be; to examine for medicinal reasons with a parent present, Mum or dad to help with rash cream or the like.
We are also asked to discuss that Mum or Dad might change a nappy or help dry a baby or toddler but that this is generally not appropriate for school aged children.

#20 schwatzen

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:28 PM

When my daughter went to the ER with a straddle injury the sr was so good. At 7yo she was not comfortable seeing a male dr so they were able to provide a female dr. The dr, after donning gloves and explaining why gloves were a requirement for dr’s and nurses then asked her permission for everything and explained everything she was examining using anatomically correct terms. She also explained what appropriate conduct by health professionals should consist of.

When we went to see a GP for a follow up checkup (female, at my daughter’s insistence) she went through the process again. Which was fantastic. Clinical but with care. It demonstrated to her what is appropriate touch in a medical setting and how consent must always be attained beforehand.


#21 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:03 PM

View PostCrazy4, on 13 March 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:

I know, i agree but I haven’t quite worked out the best way to explain consent yet

Teaching consent for me as a teacher involves reminding my four year olds they have to ask before they play with their friends, touch toys etc and that during a game they have to ask every so often are you ok?

I also talk about never cuddling someone without asking.
I figure children given autonomy in smaller things are protected more against big things.

Of course it also means never being required to kiss relations etc.

#22 Fresh Start

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:04 PM

Like PPs I talk to my kids about not keeping secrets from mum and dad - they can tell us anything and if someone asks them to keep a secret from us they shouldn’t.

The6 also aren’t exposed to anyone I don’t trust already - their father, two grandfathers, grandmother, uncles and aunts. There are a couple of trusted friends they can sleep at. I keep a close eye on them at swimming - I can’t see under water but I’d see if they looked uncomfortable or surprised at a touch.

With Pell in the news DS asked how he had hurt those boys. He’s 7 so I explained he touched their private parts and made them touch his without giving them a choice AND that they were too young to make that choice anyway and as a result the boys had been through some difficult t8mes as they grew up. A reminder t9 him - no one is allowed to touch you without your agreement.

A few hours later he said “mum, that means you and dad can’t touch me either doesn’t it”. I said yes that’s right you decide if we can touch which is why we don’t touch you unless your say it’s okay. I explain the only reason we might ask is if you need medical treatment but even then if we can see without touching we will. With DS I also wipe his but due to continence issues but again he calls me and asks me to, I don’t force it on him.

This has all come at a good time for him too - he had a red sore spot under his foreskin about a month ago and XH took him to the doctor. To show us and the doctor DS held his own penis and moved the foreskin (although I assume the doctor get in closer for a better look than we did). He then did his own cream twice a day. I reminded him of that and how we had not touched his penis, he’d done it himself BUT if he had asked us to do it for him then it would be okay for us to help him out.

I also explained if we thought we need to touch it we should ask and explain why - like I need to have it in a certain spot for better light (he laughs at this because of my awful vision). He then said “but if I could get it where you could see it you wouldn’t touch it?” Which I confirmed for him.

Fast forward to today and the principal gave the 10 kids who volunteered to represent the school in the local parade last Monday a treat morning tea. DS tells me about it all the wonderful junk food and then “she said not to tell our parents how much junk food she gave us”. I said well of course you can tell us, I’m happy you did what an exciting treat and we don’t keep secrets remember. I also checked with DD and she confirms it was said.  

Grrr you have all the child safety training, we have implemented all the Child Safe school principles so why throw that out to the kids? It’s not like she even was hiding - she put a photo in the Facebook page! But now she’s given a message about keeping a secret about something so inconsequential!

#23 nup

Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:48 AM

I'm ok with being jaded. I'm ok with being cynical. What is wrong with either? The idea that we need to pursue happiness and joy and peace is inhumane. We can have those things alongside anger, frustration and overwhelm. We are human and navigating complexity is what comes when we grow up. Noone gets it perfect and noone can stop it happening. The idea that if we do the right things or say the right things only arms us to a point. It can never prepare you for the traumatic reality and can in fact lead to such an overwhelming struggle of "I tried to do the right thing and it still didn't protect me/my child/my family" that further destruction will come.

Pell is a predator but has been convicted on a crime of opportunity. Don't be complacent about the vulnerability of children but don't be hypervigilent either. Each if us needs to navigate our way through it with eyes wide open and support those who happen to fall victim. Without doubt, without blame and without question.

#24 schwatzen

Posted 14 March 2019 - 03:17 PM

I'm honest to god so over people trying to gaslight others into believing we shouldn't be cautious or overly protective or jaded and cynical. I mean that's what predators want us to think. That it probably won't happen to MY kid so i'll just send them off into the world with a bit of knowledge and keep my fingers crossed. Wouldn't that be nice for them?

I worry about people who aren't MORE jaded or angry about the amount of abuse men commit. It's a goddamn epidemic.

#25 No Drama Please

Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:13 PM

I think it must be pretty comforting to genuinely believe nothing bad will happen to your child though. My mum is a bit like that; every uncomfortable conversation quickly shut down with a “no, no that won’t happen”. She’s firmly a believer if you don’t ever talk about bad things they will never happen.

I do wonder if all the nervous energy I exert by being constantly hyper vigilant and angry is actually doing anything apart from potentially shortening my life span and elevating my blood pressure! I’d love to find the off switch, I don’t seem to have one though.




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