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Another Toilet Training question


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#1 MissMilla

Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:54 AM

So, we finally managed to get DS (4 years) fully dry at night last June. Since then he also didnt have any accidents, so we are good there.

Now I have issues with his sister in that regard.
She just turned 3 beginning of the year. We started with TT in May last year, because it was summer here in Europe and I didnt wanna start the taining in winter time. She was absolutely terrible with telling me, but since she was really young still we didnt worry too much about it. She was just naked all day and got lots of praise for doing it right and we ignored the accidents and just cleaned up without making a fuss.
She did improve over time, but it just seemed to take a while. By the end of october she was pretty good at telling us and she even managed to hold for up to 15mins when in the car. The entire november she was completely dry.
Now for some reason in dec she started wetting her undies. Its not a full pee, but its enough to soak the undies (not just a couple of drops).
She has very good days where she pees maybe 4-5 times a day and always tells me when still dry, but most of her days are terrible. Terrible days mean she pees like 30x a day. Literally every 10mins! And every single time her undies are already so wet when she tells me, that they have to be changed.
There is nothing wrong with her physically, we had her tested for UTI. Dr said to just wait it out for now and see if it improves in the next few weeks.

I wonder if its stress related? Not sure what could have caused it though.
My husband and i went on a holiday for 2 weeks where they stayed with my parents. She started the wetting about a week before that. My parents said the first week she was absolutely perfect with the toilet and week 2 she constantly wet herself. Its just so random. When she pees 30x a day she actually really does need to go. And theres always quite a bit of pee coming.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Are there other medical things we should have tested? The Dr didnt suggest anything and didnt seem concerned at all with this.

Edited by MissMilla, 10 January 2019 - 03:57 AM.


#2 harryhoo

Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:40 AM

Sounds like she just hasn't been ready. What made you start in the first place? Was she showing signs of being ready? Pushing it may do more harm than good. 8 months is a long time of accidents and she only just tirned 3.
But aside from that, that has she been wormed? My daughter will have accidents, which will stop once wormed.

#3 Soontobegran

Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:48 AM

There is too much emphasis on her toilet habits I think, she may well be stressed due to expectations.
I would completely back off......she is well within normal limits for her level of toilet training.

I don't think she is quite ready by the sounds of things. If she was mine and was wetting the place all day she'd be getting a pull up.

Good luck.

#4 Future-self

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:00 AM

Sounds like her signals are all off - doesn’t know when to go, doesn’t know how to fully empty her bladder when she does go resulting in 30 smaller wees a day.
It sounds like getting your kids toilet trained has become an all consuming thing in the last 8 months so perhaps everyone would benefit from just backing off and you not deliberately trying wanything for a while. A pull up is a great idea

#5 José

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:04 AM

that was my DS.
we just stopped worrying about TT and tried again a few months later and he got it very quickly.


#6 MissMilla

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:12 AM

Ive also thought she might not empty her bladder fully, but she doesnt pee little. Its really quite a lot every time. Thats why i was concerned about something medical. Then again, its not every day.

Well she has been using the toilet since she was 2 because she wanted to. Just in the morning or before naps when i change her or when her older brother goes she would take off her nappy and ask to go too. In summer we had family from overseas stay with us and all her older cousins were running around and swimming naked and she wanted to join them. One of her older cousins told her once she cant play because shes a baby, only babies have nappies. They were 7 kids ages 7-2 with her being the youngest.
She then asked to be without her nappy and we thought great. We didnt push or anything. Didnt scold her for accidents or anything. And she did keep getting better. Just now the last 6 weeks or so its really gotten out of control. And it came very sudden. She went from an entire dry month to a whole week of wet undies, then a week fine again and now its very random. Every day is different.

ETA: the problem with my son was very different. He also started TT with 2 and was completely dry (daytime) after 2 weeks. No accidents or dripping in his undies at all. He could also hold quite well from very early. With him i was concerned cuz he had a nappy at night for very long (i know 4 years isnt late for it, but it just seemed long because he was day dry so early).

Edited by MissMilla, 10 January 2019 - 08:17 AM.


#7 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:13 AM

i also say wait and try again in a few months.

We tried my son at 3 and it just didnt work, so we tried again at 3.5 and he got it within a week or two. Its easy when they are really ready.  He is still in night nappies and i dont see that changing for a while yet, not until he is 4 at least, maybe older.

Dont hurry these things, they happen when they happen.

#8 MissMilla

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:19 AM

View Post~LemonMyrtle~, on 10 January 2019 - 08:13 AM, said:

i also say wait and try again in a few months.

We tried my son at 3 and it just didnt work, so we tried again at 3.5 and he got it within a week or two. Its easy when they are really ready.  He is still in night nappies and i dont see that changing for a while yet, not until he is 4 at least, maybe older.

Dont hurry these things, they happen when they happen.

Yea, the problem is she takes the nappy off. She has one to sleep and when she wakes up she takes it off and when i put it during the day she also takes it off.
The wet undies dont even bother her. She doesnt even come to tell me when shes wet.

Should i enforce the nappy and tell her to leave it on?
Or just leave her be and wash a lot of undies every day?

Edited by MissMilla, 10 January 2019 - 08:20 AM.


#9 blimkybill

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:37 AM

If she is doing multiple larger pees per day she must also be drinking quite a lot. Is she drinking a lot, thirsty a lot? If not, then maybe the pees aren't quite as large as you think. If she is, there may be medical issues - I know she was tested for a UTI, but were her blood sugar levels also tested?

The other factor is that anxiety can cause a feeling of wanting to pee often. Perhaps she has been anxious about your trip away, it's not unlikely.

#10 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:52 AM

View PostMissMilla, on 10 January 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:



Yea, the problem is she takes the nappy off. She has one to sleep and when she wakes up she takes it off and when i put it during the day she also takes it off.
The wet undies dont even bother her. She doesnt even come to tell me when shes wet.

Should i enforce the nappy and tell her to leave it on?
Or just leave her be and wash a lot of undies every day?

Are you using pull up nappies? Maybe try a different brand? Let her choose the picture?  Otherwise I’d be enforcing it for a little while. But then by kids number 2 I was a bit over cleaning up accidents.

#11 Soontobegran

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:55 AM

Day and night time training are really quite different in physiology which is why some children trained at 2 are not night time trained for several years later.

It is important we understand this difference or our expectations can be unrealistic.

Because being asleep negates the daytime sense of being full we all rely on a hormone called the anti diuretic hormone which concentrates the urine and stops the bladder constantly filling. It also requires maturation of the nerves which allow us to hold on to a full bladder and empty it at will.

Please forgive my TT rant but I have seen so much damage done due to societal expectations on a child not ready and those children who called your child a baby for being in a nappy is a sign they have heard this from adults in their lives.

TT is not an intellectual milestone, for some reason there are people who feel they can gloat about an early trained child as though it is a sign of superior parenting and a child wearing a nappy is a sign of being slack.....it's infuriating to me.....there is so much stress around TT and there just doesn't need to be.

#12 seayork2002

Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:59 AM

DS just seemed to follow us into the toilet every single time we needed to go, he then just copied us, we left him too and just put him on when he demanded it.

he was toilet trained in the day for a couple of years before his night nappies became drier.

We just let him work it all out for himself and left him too it

#13 PrincessPeach

Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:31 PM

high urine outputs can be a symptom of diabetes, but if that is ruled out then id just go back to nappies & try again in a few months time.

#14 MissMilla

Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 10 January 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

DS just seemed to follow us into the toilet every single time we needed to go, he then just copied us, we left him too and just put him on when he demanded it.

he was toilet trained in the day for a couple of years before his night nappies became drier.

We just let him work it all out for himself and left him too it

Thats what DD has been doing since she turned 2, so a year ago. Then wheb the cousins were here she wanted to be without a nappy full time during the day. She started taking it off herself, we obviously just thought 'great, shes ready'.

But yea she was very unreliable for a long time. Although with so many people staying with us and so much going on i just put it down to her being too busy sometimes to notice she has to go and because shes still so little i didnt worry about it or make a big deal.
Once everyone left she really improved. And then the sudden change.

She doesnt drink more than usual. She never asks for water during the day and only drinks when she sees me drink or during meals.

@stbg: yes, the night training problem was very different from this. I mainly wanted to push that one a bit because he peed so much that the nappy was leaking every night. And i thought its unusual to be day dry at 2 and still wear night nappy at 4.5. i think yiu replied in my other thread about this in june and i read some more about it afterwards, that was very helpful.

Again, i dont want to push my DD to be dry this very moment. I dont mind if she needs some more time. The washing is just getting annoying and she doesnt want the pull ups. Ive only tried o e brand so far though, maybe i let her pick another and see how that goes.
My son keeps reminding her now though that with a nappy, shes a baby -.- i explain it to them, but hes 4 and he gets to his sister with that comment and just finds it hilarious.

She might be anxious about something. She also hasnt been sleeping well the last few weeks. She gave up her dummy before the holiday and we put it down to that, but it might all be connected.

#15 MissMilla

Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:39 PM

View PostPrincessPeach, on 10 January 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

high urine outputs can be a symptom of diabetes, but if that is ruled out then id just go back to nappies & try again in a few months time.

Then it would be all the time though no? Like for example last week she had 2 small pee accidents, but there was only a few drops in her undies. on her 'dry days' she pees 3-4x and a normal amount each time.
This week she peed herself every day several times. Thats probably why i started this thread.. 4-5 bad days in a row and im so over the washing.

#16 Jenflea

Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:52 PM

Is she constipated?

that can cause accidents.

#17 Bearynice

Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:03 PM

What is her diet like? Is she perhaps constipated?

#18 MissMilla

Posted 11 January 2019 - 02:15 AM

No not at all. She does a poo 1-2x every day and its normal to soft. Never had any issues with that, also never has accidents with that, just the pee.
Diet is very random. She loves fruits/raw veggies. She snacks on that all day. Meals are muesli in the morning with fresh fruits or a yougurt. Lunch/dinner usually meat or fish which she loves and rice or pasta. She eats her veggies raw before the meal while i cut them, doesnt like them cut.
I think its quite balanced and healthy. They do eat unhealthy snacks of course, but not daily.

Edited by MissMilla, 11 January 2019 - 02:18 AM.


#19 alfoil hat

Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:17 AM

If she hasn’t been checked for diabetes I’d do that asap. Like today if possible. It can be life threatening and come on very quickly.

#20 afterlaughter

Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:51 AM

With my daughter it’s both distraction and not the strongest pelvic floor muscles. Having a few days where I got her to drink more so she was having fuller bladder strengthened the bladder and enabled her to hold a little longer. Some gentle encouragement that stopping what you are doing and going to the toilet has reduced the distraction problem. I did try going back to nappies at one particularly bad patch and said it was just to help her out but it caused her great distress so I just felt with the washing. My daughter did always sport to me when she had a accident though.

#21 MissMilla

Posted 01 March 2019 - 07:48 PM

Small update:

We put her back in nappies until about 3 weeks ago. My husband forgot to put a nappy for her to sleep and she was dry in the morning 😲 We tested it and shes been sleeping nappy free for 3 weeks now without any accidents. She doesnt even get up at night.
Her body is definitely ready.

Removed the day nappy after a few dry nights as well. In the last 8 days she had 6 perfect ones, but the other 2 days were still terrible and she wet her ants several times.

I think shes just too distracted sometimes when playing. Hopefully she will get the hang of it soon.

Never thought she would be night dry first :)

#22 SeaPrincess

Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:59 PM

Even when my children were quite good, I still kept half an eye on the clock and reminded them to go if I thought it had been too long. Sometimes when they are engaged in something, they don’t want to stop to go to the loo.

#23 *bucket*

Posted 01 March 2019 - 09:20 PM

My DD was dry at night (around age 3) before she was dry during the day. She was referred to a specialist and found to have Spina Bifida Occulta on S2 (basically missing the knobbly bit of one of her lower vertebrae) which, for her, means she doesn't feel the sensation of needing to go very strongly. This caused a lot of problems with wetting over the years. Often, too, by the time she felt the need to go she was absolutely busting and often wet a bit before she could get to the toilet.

Testing included ultrasound of bladder and x-ray of spine. Apparently it is a fairly common condition but usually symptomless (and often on S1, or the one above that). Generally found when people have x-rays for other reasons. She also had bladder emptying studies and something where they measured the force/pressure? of the wee coming out.

School was problematic as they discouraged toilet visits during class time but she was given a "free pass" to go when she needed. It probably took until her teens before she had it reasonably well under control. Always had spare clothes in her school bag through primary school.

Not saying your DD has this, but might be worth another trip to doc for further investigation if there are ongoing issues.

#24 MissMilla

Posted 01 March 2019 - 11:49 PM

View Post*bucket*, on 01 March 2019 - 09:20 PM, said:

My DD was dry at night (around age 3) before she was dry during the day. She was referred to a specialist and found to have Spina Bifida Occulta on S2 (basically missing the knobbly bit of one of her lower vertebrae) which, for her, means she doesn't feel the sensation of needing to go very strongly. This caused a lot of problems with wetting over the years. Often, too, by the time she felt the need to go she was absolutely busting and often wet a bit before she could get to the toilet.

Testing included ultrasound of bladder and x-ray of spine. Apparently it is a fairly common condition but usually symptomless (and often on S1, or the one above that). Generally found when people have x-rays for other reasons. She also had bladder emptying studies and something where they measured the force/pressure? of the wee coming out.

School was problematic as they discouraged toilet visits during class time but she was given a "free pass" to go when she needed. It probably took until her teens before she had it reasonably well under control. Always had spare clothes in her school bag through primary school.

Not saying your DD has this, but might be worth another trip to doc for further investigation if there are ongoing issues.

Thank you! What age did you have all this tested?
My DD just turned 3 this year and it just seems so early to worry about things like this while shes still in the normal age range to TT.

When she wets herself its never a full pee, always enough to get her underwear pretty wet, but not her pants.
It just annoys me that she doesnt tell me when shes wet. Cant be healthy to have wet undies for a long time and i cant see if shes wet because her pants are dry. On good days when she tells me she can actually hold quite long if theres no toilet around right away. So im thinking sometimes she just cant be bothered to go when shes 'busy'.

#25 Kiwi Bicycle

Posted 02 March 2019 - 07:33 AM

If you are wortied about wet undies, there are kids reuseable incontinence pads that wrap and button around underwear. They are work best for little amounts of pee, not a full bladder empty, but they might be worth investing in a few. Google Children's incontinence products. You can also get them sewen already into normal Bonds underwear.
I was looking at this as an option for my DS incase he was still having problems when he was going to start school.




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