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Brexit again


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#1 IamzFeralz

Posted 05 December 2018 - 04:22 PM

So, the British parliament is going to vote on whether they will accept Teresa May’s deal next Tuesday.  Pretty much everyone acknowledges that whichever way Britain leaves the EU, it will end up poorer.  

I’m really hoping everyone comes to their senses and opt for a second referendum.  It would be crazy to willingly choose to be worse off where there is no real loss of personal freedom involved by staying in the EU.

What do you think is going to happen?

#2 Freddie'sMum

Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:15 PM

No idea.

I don't think anybody truly knows what is going to happen. It's pretty scary stuff.

#3 purpleduck

Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:18 AM

Just bumping this thread up with the latest:

https://www.abc.net....iament/10718172


Quote

British MPs have defeated Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit divorce deal by a crushing margin, triggering political upheaval that could lead to a disorderly exit from the European Union or even to a reversal of the 2016 decision to leave.

MPs voted 432 to 202 to defeat the proposal, the worst parliamentary defeat for a government in recent British history.


#4 kadoodle

Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:40 AM

This is just a joke. For a movement that only came about because Cameron was frightened of losing votes to Farage, its just snowballed out of control.

#5 Lifesgood

Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:43 AM

Tomorrow there will be a motion for a no confidence vote - this time on the govt as they already had one on May.

If it succeeds things will get very interesting.

I wonder if they will delay Brexit.

#6 71Cath

Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:44 AM

Absolute disaster.

#7 Lunafreya

Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:56 AM

May will be giving her resignation to the Queen by the end of the week.

#8 seayork2002

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:12 AM

Cameron sets it all, the people who vote leave do so because they think they will get more money and the borders will close but then think 'oh hell it is not what we thought' then whatever Teresa May decides she will be in the wrong and will not make any one happy - then the people don't want another referendum because they already voted their way BUT complain their votes. No not sure what is going to happen but I think they should just go to the closest school and ask the FYOS's what they think, the would make a better job of it.

I wonder if the House of Cards series will get any inspiration from it?

#9 IamzFeralz

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:17 AM

View Postseayork2002, on 16 January 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

Cameron sets it all, the people who vote leave do so because they think they will get more money and the borders will close but then think 'oh hell it is not what we thought' then whatever Teresa May decides she will be in the wrong and will not make any one happy - then the people don't want another referendum because they already voted their way BUT complain their votes. No not sure what is going to happen but I think they should just go to the closest school and ask the FYOS's what they think, the would make a better job of it.

I wonder if the House of Cards series will get any inspiration from it?

Actually the public is in favour of s second referendum.  I think this is a real possibility.

https://www.cnbc.com...dum---poll.html

#10 seayork2002

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:19 AM

View PostIamzFeralz, on 16 January 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

Actually the public is in favour of s second referendum.  I think this is a real possibility.

https://www.cnbc.com...dum---poll.html

I wish they would just get on with it and get it done

#11 IamzFeralz

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:30 AM

View Postseayork2002, on 16 January 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:



I wish they would just get on with it and get it done

Same.  Everyone is totally sick of this issue, whether remain or leave.  One thing both sides can agree on is that they want certainty.

#12 seayork2002

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:31 AM

View PostIamzFeralz, on 16 January 2019 - 08:30 AM, said:

Same.  Everyone is totally sick of this issue, whether remain or leave.  One thing both sides can agree on is that they want certainty.

One thing I am worried about is I hope troubles in Ireland don't flair up again

#13 steppy

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:32 AM

View Postseayork2002, on 16 January 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

One thing I am worried about is I hope troubles in Ireland don't flair up again

If they get poorer they might.

That whole thing really showed how wealth heals wounds. Poverty will open them again.

#14 born.a.girl

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:41 AM

It's going to be appalling for the Welsh, too, with the backbone of their economy having been EU subsidised sheep farming.  I've never seen so many sheep, even in New Zealand.


https://www.theguard...ming-says-union

https://www.theguard...-say-uk-farmers


It's all so awful, it's hard to imagine anyone who voted 'leave' actually understood this was going to be the outcome.

I also know that many young people overseas found it impossible to cast their vote.

#15 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:48 AM

tbh i dont think they did understand - or even tried to. many just responded to the racist dog whistling from Farage et al. they got into bed with him and are now suffering a huge bout of post coital regret.

(simplistic ^ yeh i know....but i reckon that was a huge part of it. they voted “leave” on a lie)


#16 purplekitty

Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:11 AM

The lie about 350Million pounds for the NHS was a biggie.
Jeremy Corbyn is a fool as well.

We shouldn't underestimate the effect Russia and Murdoch had in the campaign.
Putin must be very pleased with their efforts in the US and the UK,destabilising world order.

#17 Burro

Posted 16 January 2019 - 11:34 AM

DUP will back May's government so she will likely win vote of no confidence.

I think it's harsh and simplistic to paint whole swathes of the UK population as racist. Not all European countries want to be in the EU and hand over so much control to a not very democratic institution. The  Uk was always more euro skeptic than many other parts of the Europe and on top of that they are a net contributor. Yes leaving was a terrible decision and the ways the UK benefits and who exactly benefits, is complex but wanting out isn't necessarily racist. It should never have gone to a referendum.

I can't imagine many Australians signing up to a similar deal with their pacific or Asian neighbours. Open up the boarders, let everyone in, have a central body write laws and redistribute wealth from wealthy areas to the poorer regions (edit: but also from the poor to the wealthy : CAP) .would be fabulous for the Asia pacific region. Australia would no doubt be a net contributor. Big business would love an endless supply of cheap labor and subsidies.

Edited by Burro, 16 January 2019 - 09:44 PM.


#18 seayork2002

Posted 16 January 2019 - 11:50 AM

I would not call them racists but I would still be very surprised if the 2 main reasons were not 'I will get more money if we leave' or 'there will be less immigrants'

Maybe living there long enough has made me cynical - don't get me wrong it is an amazing country with great people and I love it more than anything but I still think the above looking at the map of which areas voted which way (mind you Devon/Cornwall surprised me a little)

#19 purplekitty

Posted 16 January 2019 - 11:55 AM

There is no doubt racist themes were amplified and manipulated to increase fear and there was definitely racism.

#20 Burro

Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:14 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 16 January 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

I would not call them racists but I would still be very surprised if the 2 main reasons were not 'I will get more money if we leave' or 'there will be less immigrants'

Maybe living there long enough has made me cynical - don't get me wrong it is an amazing country with great people and I love it more than anything but I still think the above looking at the map of which areas voted which way (mind you Devon/Cornwall surprised me a little)

Lots of people thought the UK would 'get more money' because the UK currently contributes more the EU than they receive back in funding. Germany is the only other net contributor. And I don't think anyone   or explained that the UK would be committed to long term funding projects anyway so there would be a 'divorce bill'. Of course trade with the EU is also beneficial/ vital for the UK. I still don't think voting leave for that reason is racist. The NHS is horribly neglected and underfunded and people in the uk generally don't have private health insurance. I think the Tories are running it into the ground so they can privatise it.

Free movement of people is tricky. Lots of people benefit. Business benefit because there is a source of cheap labor. Educated and skilled people in less developed regions benefit because they can leave. 1% of latvias population leave each year. Of course that creates problems in Latvia in certain industries. There's an argument and evidence that some workers are left worse off as they compete against each other. London runs on an endless supply of migrants (from inside and outside the U.K.) who live there for a while and then move to somewhere more affordable with a better quality of life.  I don't know many people my age or younger who have stuck it out without being wealthy. Being protectionist isn't necessarily racist. It used to be a leftist position.

#21 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:21 PM

fair points Burro - but i do think if the brexit vote had been phrased differently - perhaps “do you want to leave (yes) and this is the model....” there may have been a different result. maybe.


#22 Feral Grey Mare

Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:24 PM

My neighbour's sister was visiting from the UK over Christmas and I asked her for her take on Brexit. She had voted to leave the EU. Her reasons were based on recent experience with the health system. Her mother had been hospitalised and the conditions in the hospital were basic to say the least. There was insufficient food for all patients and they even had to bring pillows from home as there were none available for her mother. She believe the influx of people from other European countries are a drain on the health service resources and that Brexit would limit the influx of migrants, easing the burden on health resources. She would probably be classified as working class, from the outer suburbs of Newcastle. I'm not an expert on the pros and cons of Brexit but you can see how the average person could form this viewpoint.

#23 Burro

Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:25 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 16 January 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

There is no doubt racist themes were amplified and manipulated to increase fear and there was definitely racism.

Sure. i just think that factor was over simplified.

#24 Burro

Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:27 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 16 January 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

fair points Burro - but i do think if the brexit vote had been phrased differently - perhaps “do you want to leave (yes) and this is the model....” there may have been a different result. maybe.

Absolutely. They shouldn't have had a referendum without a plan. That was lunacy.

#25 Ozquoll

Posted 16 January 2019 - 01:05 PM

View PostBurro, on 16 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:



Absolutely. They shouldn't have had a referendum without a plan. That was lunacy.
They did have a plan - there was meant to be a “No” vote! Not in his worst nightmares did David Cameron ever dream that the British public would vote “Yes”. Although I personally support Brexit, it is true that every possible aspect of it that could be mishandled, has been mishandled.




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