Jump to content

Religious hate speech


  • Please log in to reply
610 replies to this topic

#76 BadCat

Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:43 PM

Yeah, pretty sure he has.

#77 purplekitty

Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:47 PM

He made comments regarding the SSM plebiscite.

#78 Chic'N'Stu

Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:23 PM

View Postsomila, on 18 April 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Just found this link to a column by Folau himself from April 16.  Don't think anyone else has posted it.

https://www.playersv...eX0YOJS0Zug6.97

Haha this is great, thanks for sharing.

Quote

We left the Mormon faith in 2009. As much as I might not have been the most devout follower out there, I always believed in God, so it left a huge void in my life.

I tried to fill it with other things. Alcohol. Women. Sins.

Knew I was in good company Posted Image

#79 Cherubs

Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:59 AM

I do not believe in heaven or hell,  but I do have spiritual beliefs, having my continued existence threatened used to upset me , until I realised how vile snd sickening the belief was, it is akin to saying  to someone who disagrees with you 'One day somebody is going to pour petrol all over you and set you alight for not agreeing with me' now  do you want that, well do you!'  Or for the new fluffy brand of threats 'One day a sink hole will open beneath your feet and you will disappear forever, cease to exist, because you disagree with my beliefs...I mean I love you and it makes me totes sad but independent thought isn't really working for you so it is kinda your own fault...you can walk away with me now and clap and be happy or watch for cracks and you know die' your choice.' Personally I think that thinking is debase and borderline psychotic.

Edited by Cherubs, 19 April 2018 - 08:01 AM.


#80 Seven of Nine

Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:05 AM

Does it matter if it's technically hate speech or not? I mean, it's a hurtful thing to say and because of his status his opinion holds weight for many people.

#81 somila

Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:38 AM

I think the 'debate' is less about whether what he said was hurtful and damaging (which most people can see clearly) and more about who has a right to say what to whom, and what the consequences should be in terms of his career and the law.

Is it just 'free speech' which can be countered by the 'free speech' of others?  Is it 'hate speech' which should be condemned by the rules of his contract and the laws of the land?  Does an employer have the right to police what individuals post on their social media accounts?  Are professional sportspeople required to follow the dictates of their contractors and their sponsors off the field?

I don't have the answers, but I am paying attention.

(I was surprised to be lumped in with alcohol and sins too, PP!)

#82 VigilantePaladin

Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:39 PM

View PostSeven of Nine, on 19 April 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

Does it matter if it's technically hate speech or not? I mean, it's a hurtful thing to say and because of his status his opinion holds weight for many people.
This! The average Joe with the same views doesn't get the air time.

#83 steppy

Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:47 PM

View PostSeven of Nine, on 19 April 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

Does it matter if it's technically hate speech or not? I mean, it's a hurtful thing to say and because of his status his opinion holds weight for many people.

I agree, even though I think it shouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't look to football codes for any kind of moral guidance.

It speaks volumes to me that gay footballers are not out and proud.

#84 Lunafreya

Posted 19 April 2018 - 02:39 PM

There are gay football teams. I’ve seen them.

#85 purplekitty

Posted 19 April 2018 - 03:12 PM

View PostLunafreya, on 19 April 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

There are gay football teams. I’ve seen them.
I know there's a rugby team in Brisbane and Melbourne has the World Champions,the Melbourne Chargers.

Their response,

http://www.news.com....2fc1d96f419630d

#86 Hollycoddle

Posted 19 April 2018 - 03:46 PM

View Poststeppy, on 19 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

I agree, even though I think it shouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't look to football codes for any kind of moral guidance.

It speaks volumes to me that gay footballers are not out and proud.

How do you know who's in the closet?  Many have come out in recent years, eg. Ian Roberts.  Though I don't think the footy culture is that conducive to acceptance, if you were gay you'd probably prefer to get out of the sport altogether than cop the crap.

Edited by Mollycoddle, 19 April 2018 - 03:47 PM.


#87 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 19 April 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostLunafreya, on 19 April 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

There are gay football teams. I’ve seen them.
not a lot of openly gay premier football players though, is there?

#88 Kreme

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

View Postkimasa, on 18 April 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

Why does his name ring a familiar "hate speech" bell for me? Has he said something along these lines before?

He chose to get married on the day the SSM survey results were announced, which was apparently designed to highlight his anti SSM views.

I am tired of religious folk hiding behind their beliefs as justification for being hateful. In my view you have religious freedoms insofar as they impact your life and your life only. You have no right whatsoever to demand that others live their lives according to your beliefs.


#89 premmie

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

I'm probably going to get flamed for this. We either believe in free speech or we don't. If we don't bring these outdated attitudes into the open, then how do we address them?. I say this as a Jew who's had to deal with my fair share of antisemitism. You have to fight ignorance and bigoted beliefs with calm, education, reason and humanity.

His attitudes are not uncommon for someone of faith. I don't know all the details but if this was said on his personal page, then he is entitled to his viewpoint.

If he used his employers/sponsors platform then obviously a different story. His personal sponsors have every right to act accordingly and terminate their contracts with him - if he is breach. For QANTAS to do so is a big call. The response to anyone struggling with their sexuality should be, we love you just as you are. People will always have bigoted attitudes and shutting down free speech does nothing to educate or change these attitudes.

#90 Rowenas candy cane

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:17 PM

I think you're misunderstanding free speech.

Firstly, we don't have any freedom of speech in our constitution.

Free speech means freedom to criticise the government without being thrown in jail, the right to be involved in the political process without consequences. That I will always defend.

It does not mean the right to hate speech (in fact, anti-discrimination laws in Australia take precedence)

Additionally, and very importantly, it does not mean freedom from consequences. It does not mean freedom from criticism, or even freedom from being fired from your job, except under specific guidelines - usually relating to anti-discrimination and workplace laws.

If you bring your employer into disrepute by engaging in speech that contravenes anti-discrimination laws or incites violence (not that Folau has done this, but if someone has been threatening violence or inciting violence) then you can absolutely be fired, and rightly so.

Businesses have a reputation to uphold, and the rights of someone to be a bigot do not extend to having the right to have a public facing job.

#91 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:24 PM

I wish people would actually understand what free speech in Australia means before using it as part of their argument.

#92 marple

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:26 PM

View Postpremmie, on 19 April 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

I'm probably going to get flamed for this. We either believe in free speech or we don't. If we don't bring these outdated attitudes into the open, then how do we address them?. I say this as a Jew who's had to deal with my fair share of antisemitism. You have to fight ignorance and bigoted beliefs with calm, education, reason and humanity.

His attitudes are not uncommon for someone of faith. I don't know all the details but if this was said on his personal page, then he is entitled to his viewpoint.

If he used his employers/sponsors platform then obviously a different story. His personal sponsors have every right to act accordingly and terminate their contracts with him - if he is breach. For QANTAS to do so is a big call. The response to anyone struggling with their sexuality should be, we love you just as you are. People will always have bigoted attitudes and shutting down free speech does nothing to educate or change these attitudes.

Yes, that is why I asked if it was his personal account. If it was then I think people are on shaky ground saying he should be sacked.

#93 purplekitty

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:27 PM

View Postmarple, on 19 April 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yes, that is why I asked if it was his personal account. If it was then I think people are on shaky ground saying he should be sacked.
Sponsors are paying for your public image,not just what you do on the field.

#94 premmie

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:28 PM

I don't disagree, he should absolutely face the consequences. If his personal sponsors want to pull out I feel they have every right. I work for a big multinational and I would hate for our products/brands to be associated with that kind of garbage. If he in fact broke the rules of his contract with ARU then he should also be sacked. Especially if he used their media platform to do it.

I happen to disagree with the hate speech laws. We should be able to put forward whatever personal view we hold, as long as we are not encouraging violence. That view then needs to hold up to public discussion. Isn't that what education is about, listening, reading it all and deciding for yourself. If we shut down speech we don't agree with, we're not helping anyone.

Rather than howling for blood isnt it better to seek to educate. He looks like a complete idiot and a bigot for what he said. And he'll suffer the consequences...

#95 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:39 PM

You give these people a lot more credit than I am willing too. They aren’t interested in being educated, they just want to have their sh*tty opinion and spout it without consequence and as far as I am concerned they can get stuffed!

I am sick of being told we need to allow these people their platform, we don’t. They should be told in no uncertain terms what they are saying is wrong and there is no room for debate.

I am over people saying oh well it’s my opinion and I am entitled to it, like that means that they are free from being challenged on it or told it’s wrong.

Edited by ~J_F~, 19 April 2018 - 04:43 PM.


#96 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

Yes so called freedom of speech is a murky area - it doesn't and never has meant "freedom from consequences" (such as a defamation suit, or losing a lucrative sponsorship deal) - but I don't think anyone here is arguing that it does. I think we all fall into the same trap sometimes of strenuously defending the right to say something (and suffer the consequences) until we hear something we don't like.

Freedom of speech (such as it is - a qualified freedom) directly conflicts with freedom of religion (and certainly freedom from religion) - as does the right to be treated in a non discriminatory way (based on recognised grounds of discrimination - one of which is sexuality).

Indeed in Australia freedom of religion trumps the anti discrimination act in many important aspects - as churches can - and do - discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality - in relation to the employment of teaching staff - by way of example. This is specifically allowed if the discrimination is "in good faith in order to avoid injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherents to that religion". Never mind the susceptibilities of the person being discriminated against - and ones a choice and one isn't.  (For the avoidance of doubt: religion is the choice)

Anyway - none of this is "enshrined" - it's just a set of priorities - it can change. maybe some airing of these "religious susceptibilities" might help bring about change. But lots of people in the gay and lesbian community are being hurt in the process.

Edited by Lucrezia Borgia, 19 April 2018 - 04:47 PM.


#97 marple

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:54 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 19 April 2018 - 04:27 PM, said:

Sponsors are paying for your public image,not just what you do on the field.
I agree and probably his sponsors will dump him which is his problem.
What I am talking about is are people really happy for people to be able to be sacked for what they say on their private social media accounts?
Just a thought.

#98 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:56 PM

View Postmarple, on 19 April 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:


I agree and probably his sponsors will dump him which is his problem.
What I am talking about is are people really happy for people to be able to be sacked for what they say on their private social media accounts?
Just a thought.

Considering a lot of employment contracts now contain social media usage clauses, I would say plenty of people are quite happy for that to happen.

Edited by ~J_F~, 19 April 2018 - 05:06 PM.


#99 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 19 April 2018 - 05:03 PM

View Postmarple, on 19 April 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:


I agree and probably his sponsors will dump him which is his problem.
What I am talking about is are people really happy for people to be able to be sacked for what they say on their private social media accounts?
Just a thought.

Yeh it's an interesting point. The public servant who was sacked over tweets critical of Australia's asylum seeker policy has won compensation and the AAT has determined her sacking was unlawful. Different scenario obviously - for one - I agreed with what she said (!) but also her twitter handle didn't really reveal who she was. No doubt Folau's did. But mainly this was a win for the "unfettered and implied right or freedom of political expression" - it may be appealed, so watch this space. And Folau's comments were religious - but maybe also political? The SSM debate put it squarely in the political arena.


#100 blue86

Posted 19 April 2018 - 05:13 PM

View Postmarple, on 19 April 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:


I agree and probably his sponsors will dump him which is his problem.
What I am talking about is are people really happy for people to be able to be sacked for what they say on their private social media accounts?
Just a thought.

Considering his page is public, and until recently clearly linked him to both the Waratahs and the Wallabies (and still uses a lot of shots of him in the team kit), what he posts there is an extension of the public profile he has due to the game and should therefor be no different than if he was posting on behalf of the clubs.

As a long term club member, who adores his on field brilliance, I believe he should go. As a lover of this game and all it stands for and is trying to achieve, I believe he should go. As a decent human being who thinks that his opinion is hurtful, denigrating and plain wrong, I think he’s a t**nt.

And as someone who works in the public sector, if someone who worked for us brought us into disrepute on their social media page, they’d be sacked (and have been)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

'My parenting style is Survivalist'

A helicopter or tiger mum, I am not.

8 mums reveal their favourite nappy bags

We asked a bunch of mums which nappy bags they love the most.

Why you shouldn't bother throwing a big first birthday party

If you're feeling the pressure to host an all-out, over-the-top shindig for your baby's birthday, I hereby grant you permission to throw the rules out the window.

The 24 baby names on the verge of extinction this year

If you're on the hunt for the perfect baby name and don't want a chart-topper like Oliver or Olivia, then do we have the list for you.

'My mum doesn't seem that interested in my baby'

Q: My mother and I have always been close, but now that I have a baby, she has not helped out as much as I thought she would.

New guidelines: "Bottle-feeding mums need support too"

Breast is best, but mums who can't, or choose not to breastfeed need support too.

Dads also struggle to 'have it all', study finds

Men and women both experience work-family conflict.

Language development may start in the womb

Study found babies can recognise foreign languages before birth.

Meet the baby born from an embryo frozen for 24 years

Experts say little Emma is a record breaking baby.

 
Advertisement
 

Top 5 Articles

Advertisement
 
 
 

From our network

Five things you need to know about flu and pregnancy

As the 2017 flu season begins in earnest, here?s what you need to know to protect yourself and baby.

Mum tips to keep your pre-baby budget in check

Money might be funny in a rich man's world (or so ABBA told us), but for the rest of us it's a major consideration – particularly before having a baby.

5 easy ways to make your maternity leave last longer

Maternity leave is a special time for you, your partner and your new little bundle. The last thing you want is for financial worries to stand in the way of that joy.

10 ways to keep your 'buying for baby' costs down

Becoming a parent is full of surprises – not least of all finding out that, for such small beings, babies cause a lot of chaos and expense.

5 ways to prepare to go from two incomes to one

Here are some ideas for getting that budget in shape, ready for being a one income family.

 

Baby Names

Need some ideas?

See what names are trending this year.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.