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Religious hate speech


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#51 Lunafreya

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:35 PM

If you are after some fun, look through Leviticus into some of restrictions on menstruating women. They never bring that up, do they? ;)

#52 RichardParker

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:38 PM

View PostLunafreya, on 18 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

Also, newspapers doesn’t have to print stuff like this if they don’t want to. I know it sells papers, gets clicks, but it also normalises it.
It get's clicks because Newspapers are outrage factories.  The more outrage they can generate (from the left or right), the more clicks they get.  Getting all het up about this only adds fuel to the fire and ensures more young, impressionable gay people see his comments.

View PostLunafreya, on 18 April 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

If you are after some fun, look through Leviticus into some of restrictions on menstruating women. They never bring that up, do they? ;)

Or the restrictions on pooing inside the city walls - you used to have to leave town to have a crap.

#53 ~J_F~

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:39 PM

So what we should all just chill on the couch and let people say whatever the hell the please because calling them out makes it worse?

How does that actually work? Because in my experience that just let these people think it’s ok and they get more and more outrageous in their racist, bigoted and homophobic statements.

#54 Tesseract

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:41 PM

View Postred_squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

If you’re instant gut reaction to his twitter statement is revolt/disgust/offence etc, that is a reaction from the core of your being. You believe in Hell and all that goes with it, at least at a core level.

If you truly didn’t believe, you’re reaction would be more along the lines of “what, so I’m going to a place that doesn’t exist, good one”

I’m just trying to point out many of you are believers when it comes down to it when you have previously said otherwise. Your gut reaction is to believe.

My gut reaction is disgust and offence because I know what these sorts of statements do to LGBTI young people. Suicide. That's what these sorts of comments result in.

So quit your quasi psychoanalysis of my apparently repressed knowledge of hell.

#55 Lunafreya

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:43 PM

I think it helps to call them out, because it shows that we do not have to accept such views in today’s society.

Though why we still follow the beliefs of Iron Age nomads in this day and age is truly beyond me.

#56 RichardParker

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:44 PM

I think call them out, but call them for what they are - not what they used to be (due to religion's prior powerfulness in the community).

Call them ridiculous, silly, laughable, childish, simplistic, presumptuous.

Don't give the words power by acting as if they have any basis in theology (for Christians) or fact (for Atheists).  

"OK mate, the sky is falling.  Thanks for your insight, now run along after the ball."

Our words can have power too.

Edited by RichardParker, 18 April 2018 - 01:44 PM.


#57 Soontobegran

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:53 PM

It’s a hot topic around my circle.....nobody, even avid followers support him.
Let him walk away, he will not change his POV.
Have Qantas ceased their sponsorship yet?

#58 Soontobegran

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:57 PM

View Postred_squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:




If you truly didn’t believe, you’re reaction would be more along the lines of “what, so I’m going to a place that doesn’t exist, good

No.
That is an incredibly narrow minded approach to this.
Do you think it’s only religious people who condemn what he said?

#59 Oriental lily

Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:00 PM

Yes but you have your religious values and beliefs and then the society you live in values and beliefs . Two different things . Hell is considered ‘eternal dammnation’ while it might not physically exist for non christians they sentiment behind it does . So in his opinion ( no matter what type of Christian interpretation he decides to follow) being gay is worse of the sinners in society . Up there with murderes and child rapists . It’s a choice for him to both believe that and sprout that .

Which could be considered hate speech . He is not a slave to his religious beliefs . Many progressive christians don’t believe that .

It’s just plain old homophobic hatred to me .

#60 ~J_F~

Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:02 PM

View PostOriental lily, on 18 April 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Yes but you have your religious values and beliefs and then the society you live in values and beliefs . Two different things . Hell is considered ‘eternal dammnation’ while it might not physically exist for non christians they sentiment behind it does . So in his opinion ( no matter what type of Christian interpretation he decides to follow) being gay is worse of the sinners in society . Up there with murderes and child rapists . It’s a choice for him to both believe that and sprout that .

Which could be considered hate speech . He is not a slave to his religious beliefs . Many progressive christians don’t believe that .

It’s just plain old homophobic hatred to me .

This sums up how I feel very nicely, thanks OL :)

#61 Feraldasherie

Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:26 PM

View PostRichardParker, on 18 April 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:



"OK mate, the sky is falling.  Thanks for your insight, now run along after the ball."

Our words can have power too.

While I think that response is fine for that example, I think there is such a gulf between 'the sky is falling' and 'gays will burn in hell' that it is not close to an equivalence.

The vilification, discrimination and violence that the LGBT community has historically had to endure, and which is still too accepted and close to the surface, means it is not ok to risk emboldening it further by shrugging off this kind of language.

#62 somila

Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:39 PM

Just found this link to a column by Folau himself from April 16.  Don't think anyone else has posted it.

https://www.playersv...eX0YOJS0Zug6.97

#63 purplekitty

Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:23 PM

View Postred_squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

They are obviously not.

From previous threads on here there are many that openly mock Christians for their “made up sky fairy” . They claim to be non-believers.

If you’re instant gut reaction to his twitter statement is revolt/disgust/offence etc, that is a reaction from the core of your being. You believe in Hell and all that goes with it, at least at a core level.

If you truly didn’t believe, you’re reaction would be more along the lines of “what, so I’m going to a place that doesn’t exist, good one”

I’m just trying to point out many of you are believers when it comes down to it when you have previously said otherwise. Your gut reaction is to believe.
Your comment didn't appear to be directed at EB posters.

I've been told I'm going to Hell since I first identified as an agnostic in my teens and stopped attending church.
It's the intent,almost glee, and sometimes malice behind the comment that stands out at times but you are right the actual threat itself carries no weight in my mind. I just think less of those speaking.

However,when my children are told the same thing because of their parents ,and they are upset, my attitude to that is not benign.

Being able to recognise that something is rude,hurtful and real to others,while not to yourself,isn't rocket surgery.

#64 Lunafreya

Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:33 PM

I hate how religion gives people such an excuse to deliberately hurt others. They stand their in their self-righteousness and be completely contemptable their fellow human beings.

Why? A book written thousands of years ago told them to be.

Edited by Lunafreya, 18 April 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#65 Freddie'sMum

Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:43 PM

He is free to say whatever the hell he wants.

Equally we can say that his views are abhorrent and hurtful to young, gay people and I personally would say he is going to hell because he is spouting hate towards vulnerable people.

After that, he can bite me.

#66 JAPNII

Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

Folau of course believes all non Christians will burn in Hell including me - a believer in G-d but a Jew.

I don't just shrug it off but at the same time I don't get quite so upset about it either.

I see Folau really believes what he believes. Yeah well. Hope he aint disappointed at the end of the day.....

#67 Future-self

Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:57 PM

View PostLunafreya, on 18 April 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

If you are after some fun, look through Leviticus into some of restrictions on menstruating women. They never bring that up, do they? ;)
Yikes, don't give them any ideas!

#68 steppy

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:06 PM

Well, according to the Bible, gay people are going to hell. Right up there with cowards, unbelievers, vile people, murderers, sexually immoral people (that's probably 80% of us), people who practice magic or worship idols and ALL liars. (Okay, that's 99.9% of us).

I tend to agree that what religious people believe is a bit silly and it's not necessarily hate speech. If he had said 'gay people are going to hell and that means we can burn them alive' ... yeah, that would be hate speech.

I realise the second is (often) implied in the first, but actually, most religious people who believe gay people are going to hell don't try to kill them. We do have to stay vigilant though and I think there's no harm in telling this guy his beliefs suck the big one.

Edited by steppy, 18 April 2018 - 05:08 PM.


#69 JinksNewton

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:07 PM

View PostRowenas Necklace, on 18 April 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:



It's okay to be an abhorrent human being and hold abhorrent views, just as long as you put a positive spin on them? How exactly do you put a positive spin on hate speech?
Well, when it's anti-transgender people, they spin it by saying they're just wanting to protect women and children...and they don't even use religion as an excuse.
Folau says it because he genuinely wants to save gay people from the hell he believes exists.

FWIW I think both stances are gross and based in fear.

Edited by JinksNewton, 18 April 2018 - 05:07 PM.


#70 Lunafreya

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

Yeah, the church is really all about protecting children. I’m appalled they still think they can take that line.

Edited by Lunafreya, 18 April 2018 - 05:12 PM.


#71 ~J_F~

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:12 PM

View PostJinksNewton, on 18 April 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:


Well, when it's anti-transgender people, they spin it by saying they're just wanting to protect women and children...and they don't even use religion as an excuse.
Folau says it because he genuinely wants to save gay people from the hell he believes exists.

FWIW I think both stances are gross and based in fear.

I see what you did there ;)

#72 BadCat

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:29 PM

View Postred_squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

How can people who claim God is “made up sky fairy” and there is no Heaven and Hell be offended by being told they are going to Hell?

You either believe or you don’t. You can’t get offended by something that you believe isn’t real.

Perhaps you believe more that you actually realise.

And yes, he should have kept his opinions to himself.

OMG you're right.  I totes believe in god and heaven and hell.  I just didn't know it.

Wait, no, I really, REALLY do not.

I am offended by it because it passes judgment on children and teenagers who are having a hard enough time coming to terms with who they are without having some w*n*er tell them they are invalid.

View Postred_squirrel, on 18 April 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

They are obviously not.

From previous threads on here there are many that openly mock Christians for their “made up sky fairy” . They claim to be non-believers.

If you’re instant gut reaction to his twitter statement is revolt/disgust/offence etc, that is a reaction from the core of your being. You believe in Hell and all that goes with it, at least at a core level.

If you truly didn’t believe, you’re reaction would be more along the lines of “what, so I’m going to a place that doesn’t exist, good one”

I’m just trying to point out many of you are believers when it comes down to it when you have previously said otherwise. Your gut reaction is to believe.

Bollocks.  Complete and utter bollocks.


View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 18 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

It's an interesting point.

I think people maybe wouldn't be so quick to jump on him had he not invoked his Christian beliefs - which purports to stand for love, acceptance blah blah blah.



Nope.  I don't care whether he said gays are going to hell or gays are icky and disgusting without invoking any kind of religious belief.  Either way he is flat out saying that being gay is invalid, immoral, and wrong.  And that is bullsh*t of the highest order and should be called out every time anyone says it in a public forum.


View PostTesseract, on 18 April 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

My gut reaction is disgust and offence because I know what these sorts of statements do to LGBTI young people. Suicide. That's what these sorts of comments result in.


Correct.

And that is exactly why it offends and disgusts me.  Children die because of d***heads like this spouting their bullsh*t moral code and I'm completely and utterly sick of it.

#73 Amica

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:44 PM

View PostTesseract, on 18 April 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:



My gut reaction is disgust and offence because I know what these sorts of statements do to LGBTI young people. Suicide. That's what these sorts of comments result in.

So quit your quasi psychoanalysis of my apparently repressed knowledge of hell.

Needs repeating.

#74 BadCat

Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:29 PM

Gah.  I can't even begin to articulate what is so very wrong with red-squirrel's responses.  It's just so damn smug to suggest that if I am offended by someone's invalidation of people I know and love that I must somehow believe in hell and all the associated whatnot.

Smug and arrogant and fundamentally bloody stupid.

#75 kimasa

Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:42 PM

Why does his name ring a familiar "hate speech" bell for me? Has he said something along these lines before?




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