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Another young doctor lost (mentions suicide)


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#1 Twinmum+2

Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

http://www.dailytele...t=1489992362527

This is truly disgusting.  I can only hope that the loss of this young woman causes some much needed change in the way we train our young doctors.

#2 purplekitty

Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:58 PM

This breaks my heart.

It was Victoria last year.
The pressure and responsibility is enormous.

#3 purplekitty

Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:24 AM

'To stop doctors ending their lives, we need to hear from those suffering'

https://www.theguard...ing?CMP=soc_568

#4 Rosiebird

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:09 PM

How to drive a junior doctor to suicide
1. Make the pre-med exams and pre-requisite marks high enough that only the most determined, driven and perfectionistic young people are accepted
2. Create a competitive environment throughout med school, internship and residency, feeding fears that only the doctors with the best marks and impeccable record will get a speciality job
3. Ensure the speciality jobs are rare enough to make this a reality and provide no practical alternatives for fully trained specialists who fail to get a job
4. Create specialist exams that are so demanding that they require a full time job equivalent of study time for several years in addition to the extended hours jobs you are required to work
5. Allow bullying, harrassment and rudeness from senior colleagues without anyone batting an eyelid
6. Promote the "learning through humiliation in front of your peers" approach to education
7. Create a pervasive threat of medical malpractice suits by accepting the notion that doctors have to be perfect and having no tolerance for errors either by commission or omission (ie. no "acceptable miss rate")
8. Ensure the legal process of investigating complaints and errors is as anxiety-provoking, intense, drawn-out and unpleasant as possible.
9. Have a compulsory reporting system for all doctors seeking help from thei GP so that all doctors are obliged to report potentially impaired (depressed/anxious) colleagues or face disciplinary action.

Simple, right?

#5 Fennel Salad

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:23 PM

Yes Rosiebird, recipe for success.

After seeing what friends and acquaintances went through, i no longer "feel bad" about not getting enough marks for medicine at 17. Probably dodged a bullet.

Recently, my child had an operation and during a consultation with his orthopaedic surgeon his 2 registrars sitting in, DSs' surgeon verbally filleted them in front of me.

Was truly a dog eat dog moment.

#6 Rosiebird

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:34 PM

I was asked "Have you learnt your lesson, young lady?" in front of my junior registrars, consultant and nursing colleagues by a senior cardiologist - only a few weeks ago.

One of the cardiothoracic registrars was ordered to stand in a corner facing the wall when he made a mistake in surgery. He felt grateful he wasn't gaffa-taped to the wall like one of his colleagues.





#7 wallofdodo

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:40 PM

The more I hear about the medical proffession the more I feel I should add it to the list of 'things I don't want my children to do'

- join the army
- play AFL
- fall in love with someone from overseas


But I do want to add I am always amazed and thankful for the job that is done. Thank-you medical proffessionals.

#8 unicycle

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

 Rosiebird, on 21 March 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I was asked "Have you learnt your lesson, young lady?" in front of my junior registrars, consultant and nursing colleagues by a senior cardiologist - only a few weeks ago.

One of the cardiothoracic registrars was ordered to stand in a corner facing the wall when he made a mistake in surgery. He felt grateful he wasn't gaffa-taped to the wall like one of his colleagues.


wow

can add to your recipe: refuse to allow the kid you bullied at high school take up a specialist area

Edited by unicycle, 21 March 2017 - 01:23 PM.


#9 Rosiebird

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

I nearly forgot - one of the senior cardiologists (pattern?) completely ignored me, my consultant (female), my junior reg (female) and walked straight up to the male junior reg, shook his hand, introduced himself and asked how his patient was doing. Did not even acknowledge the rest of the team - which was rather amusing considering we were much more senior and actually knew what was going on😅. Casual sexism at work.

#10 purplekitty

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:59 PM

 Rosiebird, on 21 March 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

How to drive a junior doctor to suicide
1. Make the pre-med exams and pre-requisite marks high enough that only the most determined, driven and perfectionistic young people are accepted
2. Create a competitive environment throughout med school, internship and residency, feeding fears that only the doctors with the best marks and impeccable record will get a speciality job
3. Ensure the speciality jobs are rare enough to make this a reality and provide no practical alternatives for fully trained specialists who fail to get a job
4. Create specialist exams that are so demanding that they require a full time job equivalent of study time for several years in addition to the extended hours jobs you are required to work
5. Allow bullying, harrassment and rudeness from senior colleagues without anyone batting an eyelid
6. Promote the "learning through humiliation in front of your peers" approach to education
7. Create a pervasive threat of medical malpractice suits by accepting the notion that doctors have to be perfect and having no tolerance for errors either by commission or omission (ie. no "acceptable miss rate")
8. Ensure the legal process of investigating complaints and errors is as anxiety-provoking, intense, drawn-out and unpleasant as possible.
9. Have a compulsory reporting system for all doctors seeking help from thei GP so that all doctors are obliged to report potentially impaired (depressed/anxious) colleagues or face disciplinary action.

Simple, right?
Particularly 7,8,9 which are relatively new additions.
I'll add a 10.
Unrelenting hostility and demands from some patients and their families.

I'm trying to guess the hospital,Rosie.

#11 Twinmum+2

Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:19 PM

 Rosiebird, on 21 March 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I was asked "Have you learnt your lesson, young lady?" in front of my junior registrars, consultant and nursing colleagues by a senior cardiologist - only a few weeks ago.

One of the cardiothoracic registrars was ordered to stand in a corner facing the wall when he made a mistake in surgery. He felt grateful he wasn't gaffa-taped to the wall like one of his colleagues.

It's so similar to the defence forces in that way that it is scary.   Little megalomaniacs throwing their weight around because it happened to them so why shouldn't it happen to you?

#12 purplekitty

Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

https://www.buzzfeed...45r7#.uaDyOnxoa

#13 lizzzard

Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:44 AM

The media have been covering an epidemic of suicides amongst young doctors here in the UK as well. The culture of medicine (or perhaps just some hospitals?) seems so toxic  and destructive :(

#14 Mister Mum

Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

 Rosiebird, on 21 March 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I was asked "Have you learnt your lesson, young lady?" in front of my junior registrars, consultant and nursing colleagues by a senior cardiologist - only a few weeks ago.

One of the cardiothoracic registrars was ordered to stand in a corner facing the wall when he made a mistake in surgery. He felt grateful he wasn't gaffa-taped to the wall like one of his colleagues.

Geez.  I'd be testing the sharpness of my scalpel on the cardiologist after a comment like that.  Awful.

#15 purplekitty

Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

 lizzzard, on 22 March 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

The media have been covering an epidemic of suicides amongst young doctors here in the UK as well. The culture of medicine (or perhaps just some hospitals?) seems so toxic  and destructive Posted Image
The junior doctors in the UK have been totally screwed by the government in their crusade to collapse and destroy the NHS.

The refusal to properly fund an essential service like the health system results in exploitation of and enormous pressure on the staff added to the inherent daily psychological stress.

#16 Rosiebird

Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:23 AM

It's actually improving in some ways (and deteriorating in others). The vanguard of crusted-on older male consultants who belittle and harass trainees is diminishing... they are being replaced with younger, more socially-competent consultants. But the litigation issue, the job security and the competition for trainee and specialist jobs is worse..., much worse.

#17 purplekitty

Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:38 AM

The worst examples I've heard of from young doctors are on surgical rotations and the consultants were not old.

#18 Twinmum+2

Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:24 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 22 March 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

The worst examples I've heard of from young doctors are on surgical rotations and the consultants were not old.

On a nursing placement in an operating theatre I saw first hand just how obnoxious some specialists can be to everyone around them!  And then have a conversation about bullying in the hospital as if it didn't relate to them at all...

Edited by Twinmum+2, 22 March 2017 - 01:25 PM.


#19 07gbam

Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:04 PM

Add this to the mix-
Dr google, Paleo Pete types, self professed experts, being second guessed, told you're no better than anyone else but expected to behave perfectly, get shouted at, berated and criticised by patients, told you know nothing, put under pressure by patients to do unnecessary tests, having a constant fear of making a mistake, your mistake affecting someone's life forever, being expected to discount everyone's fees like a charity because successive governments have frozen the rebate to patients, being told you're greedy by patients for charging what you're worth, feeling bad for parking your nice car in front of the surgery in case patients think you're undeserving and greedy, being accountable for everything you do but no one else doing that in their job when they come to your house, get paid more than you for a call out and stuffing up...
Arguing with people who think reading a few journal articles and text books is the same as 'research' or a five year degree course, paying $2000 for a course, Ama fees, college fees and medical board fees and being asked by the government to accept $39 bulk bill for your expertise and time. Oh and did I mention medical insurance..
Studying every weekend while friends your age are out partying and spending money you haven't made yet, getting into debt until you qualify, subjecting yourself to horrendously difficult exams, waiting for a training position that may never come your way, being expected to work lonnnnggg hours, weekends, nights, on call rosters that stuff up your body clock, Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day, missing school events because your working and kids are upset with you, and on top of it all, ALWAYS being empathetic, kind, and capitulating to everyone else's needs but your own.

Seen first hand through family members.
No wonder so many of them have failed marriages, alcoholism, mental health issues
Let's not forget this happens to nurses too.

#20 purplekitty

Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:32 PM

This was written by the wife of a senior specialist who committed suicide this week.


C_YeN1FXgAABklA.jpg:large

#21 steppy

Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:56 PM

I think another one would be:

Require people who have undertaken to be a doctor to complete an internship before they can be recognised. Then make it really really difficult to get an internship.

All those years, wasted. So good for mental health.

#22 ednaboo

Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:41 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 11 May 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

This was written by the wife of a senior specialist who committed suicide this week.


C_YeN1FXgAABklA.jpg:large

That is heart breaking.

#23 amaza

Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:44 PM

This whole thread is heart breaking :(

#24 Riotproof

Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:07 PM

So sad.




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