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Suggestions Please - Natural Consequences for not listening, shouting, and not following direction


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#1 gc_melody

Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:22 PM

Hi,

Sorry for lengthy post but I am at my wits end today and need alternative strategies because what I am doing is not working. I have a 3yro and 5yro who are slowly but surely sending me batty atm. We've become locked into a yuk dynamic where essentially, there is no cooperation and it sucks.

DS5 has attention and sensory issues and I try to remember this when he seemingly doesn't listen. But sometimes though, he actually couldn't GAF about what I'm asking him. DD3 is well, being a three year old with an older sibling to following the lead from. Singularly, they are great and there are zero issues but when together, it's running me ragged.

I prefer gentle parenting techniques but lately, I'm not being at all gentle. I'm raising my voice. A lot. Redirection is no longer working, counting 1-2-3 and giving consequences isn't working anymore either. Toys have been stored in the garage for a week and they don't care :(  I've realised I've become locked into either positive or negative punishment mode and all of us are feeling like crap because of it. I have a summer cold/throat thing coming on, at a low ebb, physically and emotionally drained and the household is becoming wobbly

We do fun stuff together like go the beach, make sandcastles, ride bikes, do craft, watch movies together & have cuddle time several times per day. They get lots of positive time with me but the balance is shifting to yuk moments.  

I'm after suggestions for gentle parenting strategies and natural consequences for not doing as asked and not being kind to each other (or me for that matter).

TIA

#2 Rosepickles

Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:39 PM

I have no suggestions but have the same issue with mine who are similar ages, hoping someone has some good advice.

#3 Tinned asparagus

Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

I do not have the answers, just solidarity. I repeatedly ask them to listen and follow my instructions. It seems to have no impact at all. Every day starts off the same way again with me being ignored and becoming a banshee. The 4yo listens sometimes. I break instructions down to a single step of as few words as possible. The 3yo is pretty off with the fairies.

#4 Mummy_Em

Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:59 PM

Go over to them and get face to face and on their level with them and get them to repeat instructions back. Remind them of what good listening looks like - hands and feet are still, turn to face the person, stop talking, engage ears and brain.

You might be using these techniques already but I think they are the most important ones, and not easy to do because you have to stop and give them your full attention too. I'm bad at it myself, so do as o say not as I do lol.

My eldest is quite impulsive and gets overexcited or frustrated easily. We have always sent her to her room for disruptive behavior or to calm down. She has books and toys in there. We have verbally linked it to her needing space to calm down, or everyone else needs space so that we can have a conversation and do things that don't revolve around trying to contain her behavior. In the past year she has started to occasionally catch herself before the point where we are making her go to her room to calm down and she is taking herself off to read a book or do something she finds calming. So she is starting to improve her self regulation.

My psychologist said something that helped me a bit. Sometimes as a parent all you can really do is wait for their brains to mature. It helped me heaps because I tend to approach discipline as if I should be able to hit on the correct approach and get a predictable outcome and unfortunately it doesn't work like that. You might be doing all the right things but your child is not developmentally ready to grasp that skill, and until they are ready you are going to spend a lot of time repeating yourself and not seeing much change.


#5 SplashingRainbows

Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:14 PM

By 3 and 5 my kids are a child care or school most of the week. That's all I've got!

(By that I mean it's tough, they're tough ages, and we all seem to be a bit nicer to each other when we are together if we have our own lives apart. I'm not sure there's a magic solution. Don't be too hard on yourself.)

ETA if your 5yo is in FYOS, I'd be dialing back all the activities. What's his sensory diet like? do you have one? Does it need to be adapted for school? My sons afternoon session was a big long at 5 and so we really struggled straight after school until we got the balance right. Could it be worth an OT review/check in?

Edited by SplashingRainbows, 05 February 2017 - 07:17 PM.


#6 Crombek

Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:20 PM

5 & almost 3 here and having exactly the same issues. They bounce off each other and end up hysterical, it's like they're in their own little world no one can break into. And omg the noise!

And they egg each other on & gang up on me (in between belting each other). DS2 called me a poopy face & DS1 said 'good one, say it again!' So he did. And if I tell DS1 off for anything DS2 comes after me, yelling and pushing me away!

#7 joeyinthesky

Posted 05 February 2017 - 09:11 PM

I hope this photo loads.... this is what we've been striving to follow with our tempestuous, energetic, highly articulate, frustrating 3yo son.   It's certainly helped, particularly with my husbands relationship with him - he's still struggling with the expectation of instant obedience from DS!

Natural consequences = whatever follows their action. I.e. Throws a toy at the wall = broken toy he can't play with.

So natural consequence for shouting is you get a headache,  it listening is that you don't get done what you want to happen.

Logical consequences on the other hand are something more of an external application by parents after the fact I.e. Toy thrown at the wall = confiscated toy until able to play safely with it.

So, in our house assisting DS to follow through on requests or instructions to ensure that he is successful and we get less frustrated has helped. Less 'consequences' all round.

Edit to try again with pic.

Attached Files


Edited by joeyinthesky, 05 February 2017 - 09:15 PM.


#8 IShallWearMidnight

Posted 05 February 2017 - 09:18 PM

We use logical consequences, and for my DD her currency is the ipad/screen time.
Not listening to me x3 = no screen time, because she will get distracted by the screen and listen even less.

My 4.5yo doesn't do any consequences, but he is pretty easy as long as you dont rush him, give him loads of time to transision and finish what he's doing. The few minutes of waiting saves hours of meltdown because something was wrong.

#9 gc_melody

Posted 05 February 2017 - 09:52 PM

Thanks for the solidarity and suggestions everyone.
The yelling consequence - well this is me today. I am the one with the headache :(

View PostSplashingRainbows, on 05 February 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

By 3 and 5 my kids are a child care or school most of the week. That's all I've got!

(By that I mean it's tough, they're tough ages, and we all seem to be a bit nicer to each other when we are together if we have our own lives apart. I'm not sure there's a magic solution. Don't be too hard on yourself.)


Thank you

ETA if your 5yo is in FYOS, I'd be dialing back all the activities. What's his sensory diet like? do you have one? Does it need to be adapted for school? My sons afternoon session was a big long at 5 and so we really struggled straight after school until we got the balance right. Could it be worth an OT review/check in?

We've just had an OT review for pre-FYOS. DS is doing ok, not great, but ok. He has had some spectacular meltdowns after school though. I've had to watch and wait for him to expend all that energy screaming/yelling, jumping up and down you name it before he has let me hold him. It hasn't happened every day but enough to warrant talking to someone about it. We have a follow up appointment with the psychologist this Tuesday afternoon and I plan on discussing this issue with her. His sensory diet may need tweaking although I've tried to do it myself, I think I need extra input. The diet I was using worked really well pre-FYOS, now it's not quite doing it but satisfying enough for him to hold the bare minimum. Weekends have been a nightmare.

View PostMummy_Em, on 05 February 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

Go over to them and get face to face and on their level with them and get them to repeat instructions back. Remind them of what good listening looks like - hands and feet are still, turn to face the person, stop talking, engage ears and brain.

THIS. I have stopped doing this regularly. Thanks for the reminder Mummy Em.


My psychologist said something that helped me a bit. Sometimes as a parent all you can really do is wait for their brains to mature. It helped me heaps because I tend to approach discipline as if I should be able to hit on the correct approach and get a predictable outcome and unfortunately it doesn't work like that. You might be doing all the right things but your child is not developmentally ready to grasp that skill, and until they are ready you are going to spend a lot of time repeating yourself and not seeing much change.

True enough but because it ebbs and flows, I know what I'm asking is not beyond them. My requests are very developmentally appropriate.

Edited by gc_melody, 05 February 2017 - 09:57 PM.


#10 Rosiebird

Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:49 AM

I LOVE Joeyintheskies picture from Visible Child. I'm so glad that's being shared on EB. It's s fantastic blog.

GC-melody, whenever I feel like I'm straying from respectful parenting practices, I go right back to basics. Firstly, check your self-care. Are you fed/watered/sleeping/exercising etc? Have you had some downtime? Time with your friends/partner?
Next, I slow right down with the kids. Crouching on their level, asking them before I do anything and taking it slowly. For my 5yr old, that means taking my time brushing her hair and teeth, sitting with her while she gets dressed etc. for my 3yr old, it means slowing right down when I'm helping him get dressed ("Would you like to put on this shirt or this one? Shall I put it over your head now? Etc). Think of all caregiving times as special connection times (dinner, bathing, toileting, strapping them in the car, getting ready for bed etc)
It's a matter of repairing the connection.

Then, look at why/when you're starting to get cross and yell. Think about what upsets you and set a limit so the kids can't annoy you. "I know I used to let you do xxxx but it's not working for me anymore. I don't want you to xxxx". Set the limit early, way before you get annoyed and keep it consistent. They're allowed to be upset / cross about it, and that's ok. You are the kind, capable strong leader you're kids need and you're easily able to deal with some emotional outbursts. I find that many times I'm failing to set a limit or having trouble dealing with a situation, it's because I'm "afraid" my child is going to have a negative reaction so I "get in first" and come down too hard or try to distract them from it to avoid the emotions. Let them be!

#11 Ellie bean

Posted 06 February 2017 - 01:19 AM

This isn't much help but sometimes I do find when I want to yell at them, being silly works better. My 3yo has started screaming at me "you're naughty mummy" when I tell him he can't do something- my instinct is to be cross or frustrated but instead I've been getting down to his level, saying "you're silly" and blowing a raspberry at him- he can't help laughing, tension is defused and half the time he forgets he was cranky. (He's pretty distractible though, that never would have worked with my eldest)
Agree with a pp on their rooms being safe spaces and encouraging them ro take time out before things escalate, DD (4) needs this and sometimes she can take herself there before I even pick up that she's halfway to a meltdown
I need it too- sometimes I just say mummy can't help you until she's had a quiet moment, and I go in the wardrobe or something for 2 minutes and breathe, I come out in a better state of mind.
And also earplugs- if I'm in a foul mood I wear those earplugs where you can still hear but it's like you're at a distance, I can be much calmer and kinder myself then (I have my own sensory issues with noise)

#12 gc_melody

Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:32 PM

View PostRosiebird, on 06 February 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

I LOVE Joeyintheskies picture from Visible Child. I'm so glad that's being shared on EB. It's s fantastic blog.

GC-melody, whenever I feel like I'm straying from respectful parenting practices, I go right back to basics. Firstly, check your self-care. Are you fed/watered/sleeping/exercising etc? Have you had some downtime? Time with your friends/partner?
Next, I slow right down with the kids. Crouching on their level, asking them before I do anything and taking it slowly. For my 5yr old, that means taking my time brushing her hair and teeth, sitting with her while she gets dressed etc. for my 3yr old, it means slowing right down when I'm helping him get dressed ("Would you like to put on this shirt or this one? Shall I put it over your head now? Etc). Think of all caregiving times as special connection times (dinner, bathing, toileting, strapping them in the car, getting ready for bed etc)
It's a matter of repairing the connection.

Then, look at why/when you're starting to get cross and yell. Think about what upsets you and set a limit so the kids can't annoy you. "I know I used to let you do xxxx but it's not working for me anymore. I don't want you to xxxx". Set the limit early, way before you get annoyed and keep it consistent. They're allowed to be upset / cross about it, and that's ok. You are the kind, capable strong leader you're kids need and you're easily able to deal with some emotional outbursts. I find that many times I'm failing to set a limit or having trouble dealing with a situation, it's because I'm "afraid" my child is going to have a negative reaction so I "get in first" and come down too hard or try to distract them from it to avoid the emotions. Let them be!

Thank you Rosiebird :bighug: Great coaching post.

My self-care has slipped and my stress levels have risen. We have had a much better day today and while my throat thingy has progressed and I am gargling salt water like a demented woman, we are all much happier today. This morning DS had a wobbly moment right before we left for the school run. I got right down in front of him, asked him about is big feelings and what I could do to help him manage them. He cried, we hugged and we went about our day. He never did tell me what the problem was but I suspect it was school anxiety (he's FYOS). A few separation issues at the classroom but otherwise ok. This afternoon seems fine too...so far :rolleyes:

Ellie Bean - great advice re: sound plugs. Excellently hidden underneath hair. I might introduce DS to them and he can keep them in his pocket during school time. Less visible than ear muffs !

#13 Helga Hufflepuff

Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:50 PM

I also could have written this post myself. Big hugs to all of us at our wits end! Thanks for starting this thread, it's a bit of a relief to know others have the same struggles. I will definitely be trying some of the suggestions here.




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