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To isofix or not to isofix


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#1 Libertine

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:16 AM

Need some advice!

I'm about to return a hired capsule and need to purchase a new seat for DD2.

The girls are mainly transported in a 2000 Rav4. I have DD1 (who is 4) in a Hipod Senator.

So I now need a birth - 4 year convertible seat (need from birth rather than 6 months as she was a premmie snd is small). I was all set to buy the Infa Scure Neon however now DH has thrown a spanner in the works by asking me to research isofix seats as his Suzuki Swift has those fittings and I believe they are safer? It's unlikely that the girls will travel in the swift UNLESS my car breaks down etc but I suppose it gives us more options. Money is an issue.

To complicate matters we might replace the rav in 4/5 years.

So do I spend the extra $ on an isofix seat? If so which one?

Any help much appreciated!!!!

#2 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

Isofix is illegal to use in Australia.

It is against EB rules to discuss illegal items.

Australian standards is currently under review to include ISOFIX but even when it is approved, there will be generally a 12m lag before seats are approved for use. It is not just a case of bringing  in a seat from overseas.

Edited by lsolaBella, 28 February 2013 - 10:22 AM.


#3 roses99

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

Are they even legal in Australia?

#4 dadathome

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

isofix has long been delayed in Austrlaia on the basis that, when both are fitted properly, there is little or no difference in safety performance between isofix and equivalent seats under the current Oz standards. Of course leaving aside the research that isofix seats are considerably more likely to be fitted correctly.

I suspect that I won't have kids in car seats by time Oz standard isofix seats are available.....even though evry car I've own for the last 15 years has been isofix equipped.



#5 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

Actually dadaathome, research (including Aussie) is that rigid isofix IS superior in side impact crashes. uS Latch flexible belts is no different to a correctly installed Aussie seat.



#6 Libertine

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE (lsolaBella @ 28/02/2013, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Isofix is illegal to use in Australia.

It is against EB rules to discuss illegal items.

Australian standards is currently under review to include ISOFIX but even when it is approved, there will be generally a 12m lag before seats are approved for use. It is not just a case of bringing  in a seat from overseas.


Ah ok, sorry. Google this morning told me Isofix was set to be made legal this year. Tbh the first I'd heard of it was when DH mentioned the fittings.

Just guilty of ignorance ;-) not trying to discuss doing something dodgy lol.




#7 dadathome

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

Thanks Isolabella. I must have been confusing the studies. Or perhaps the media and Oz manufacturers were too original.gif

QUOTE (Libertine @ 28/02/2013, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just guilty of ignorance ;-) not trying to discuss doing something dodgy lol.


There have been some EB moderation slapdowns under earlier policies. In the past, there had even been discussions on the practical consequences of importing isofix seats and some of the better overseas stores.


#8 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

I have read he proposed standard change and am not happy as they are allowing either flexible belt or rigid ISOFIX. As flexible belt is cheaper and lighter I will suspect more of these type of seats will be made available, which is a shame, as it is the rigid ISOFIX which is superior (that is assuming same seat shell, just different fittings. Just because a seat has ISoFIX it does not make it a superior seat. In UK Which? Testing (like our CREP) some of the Isofix seats performed very poorly).

Dah I have sent you PM with link to research

ETA: also not happy as they are only doing ISOFIX for kids up to 4yrs. Booster seats will not have isofix. Having used isofix boosters I think this is silly.

Edited by lsolaBella, 28 February 2013 - 10:52 AM.


#9 lucky 2

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/forums/ind...howtopic=935288
QUOTE
After consultation with EB Administration it has been decided that topics or posts that request information or recommendations for use of these seats in Australia will need to be removed from view.

The forum rules prohibit discussion of or encouragement to undertake illegal activities.

QUOTE

Dangerous and Illegal Behaviour
Discussion of dangerous or illegal activities is not tolerated, be it criminal or civil. This includes (among others) talking about evading police and fines. This also includes (among others) discussing downloading TV/music/games, for more see Privacy & Piracy below.

While it is ok to discuss child restraints and latch systems that not available in Australia, any reference to using them in Australia will need to be removed.


The reasons for restriction in posting are legally based and directed by EB Administration.

Talk about ISOFIX by all means but refrain for encouraging their use in Australia and posting information on how to access and use them in Australia.

Hopefully change will come soon, I'd love to use ISOFIX in my VW, but that's life.

lucky 2

#10 lucky 2

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE
ETA: also not happy as they are only doing ISOFIX for kids up to 4yrs. Booster seats will not have isofix. Having used isofix boosters I think this is silly.

What? That sounds ridiculous, I thought that would be part of the advantage of ISOFIX, so we would be able to safely seat children up to their early teens. nno.gif  
Now I will never get to use ISOFIX, considering I have a child in a booster.

#11 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:11 AM

I did send in my feedback on the draft, but hey I am just small fry public.



#12 dadathome

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (lucky 2 @ 28/02/2013, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now I will never get to use ISOFIX, considering I have a child in a booster.


Same here, stupid decision.

As to the current EB policy, I can fully understand the change from earlier moderation standards.

But I can quite rightly still express my firmly held view that Austrlalia dramatically lags the Western world in terms of child seat standards, to a degree which, to me, approaches criminal negligence.

#13 Domestic Goddess

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

Isofix and the current standard seats are "believed to be" both just as safe. Some researchers claim that the only reason a standard seat becomes more unsafe to an Isofix seat, is if it is installed incorrectly.
You have to be very thickheaded to install an Isofix seat incorrectly.

Though after using an Isofix seat, I do believe it is safer regardless of the ease of installation. Yet this is personal experience and preference and I realize some people (like the government) might not agree with me. But that's life.

#14 dadathome

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:27 AM

Oh, and to make it even worse, Australia explicitly excluded isofix from the rewrite before last of the standard. Didn't provide for it as an option, based on overseas experience (as NZ did) but explicitly excluded its use.

I still find it extremely difficult to comprehend that decision, without the lobbying of Oz car manufacturers and car seat manufacturers being heard very strongly

#15 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

They were originally talking about including ISOFIX for the 2004 standard change. Then it was to be included in the 2010 change. It is only the current draft which I have actually seen it expressly written in (in a bad form IMHO).



#16 dadathome

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (lsolaBella @ 28/02/2013, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They were originally talking about including ISOFIX for the 2004 standard change. Then it was to be included in the 2010 change. It is only the current draft which I have actually seen it expressly written in (in a bad form IMHO).

Yeah, the stupid and obvious vested interests around isofix is one of my ranty mcrant things.

I should just chill. At least the lobbying of Danielle and Noel and many others got the regs around car seats changed, so at least things are better/more consistent in that regard.

#17 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

Yes, if we could have gone theNX route years ago that would have been great.

The Law changes in the meantime have been good. I remember being horrified at my not yet 3yo cousins kid being told to go into a booster seat so the baby could have his old seat..... The advice of Kidsafe at the time. Cousin thinks I am crazy for keeping my not yet 120cm 7yo in a booster though sad.gif  some don't care.



#18 Jenflea

Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

IsolaBella, you are not small fry public, you are the font of all knowledge regarding car safety, on this forum anyway!
Shame on the government not taking your advice like we do.

#19 Domestic Goddess

Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE (lsolaBella @ 28/02/2013, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cousin thinks I am crazy for keeping my not yet 120cm 7yo in a booster though sad.gif  some don't care.


Cousin obviously is a "law sticker". Black and white only, no grey. Your kid turns 7? Then by law you can ditch the booster seat, so this is what you SHOULD do, right??? Because you can???

I'm on the other side of the fence. I got accused of endangering my nearly 3yo son by putting him into booster mode with lapsash belt in his Ezy Combo seat. He had hit 21kg and was almost in line with the shoulder heightmark.
He kept saying the harness was hurting his shoulders. Said it was squashing him.
By law I can do this. But some people don't know the 2010 laws that state that if a child outgrows it's harness before the age of 4, he/she can be placed in a booster seat with lapsash belt.

So IsoBella, you are the "over cautious" mum  and I am the "super neglectful" mum. There is no grey wink.gif

#20 IsolaBella

Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

Let's just say my cousins child has our common short ass genes so not a situation like yours. I fully expect DS1 to be in a booster until the end of 6th grade.



#21 TeaTimeTreat

Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

If I lived in Europe like I used to I would be getting a Clek Foonf from the US since they are awesome, and I am still wanting a Britax Kidfix when DS eventually grows out of a 5 point harness, I was hoping they would have it here in 2014/2015 but it looks like our kids will not be getting ISOFIX boosters now Grrr.

#22 ednaboo

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

QUOTE (lucky 2 @ 28/02/2013, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What? That sounds ridiculous, I thought that would be part of the advantage of ISOFIX, so we would be able to safely seat children up to their early teens. nno.gif  
Now I will never get to use ISOFIX, considering I have a child in a booster.

I seem to recall that while many cars have ISOFIX points, some are only rated to 18kg.

#23 IsolaBella

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

For a Booster seat the Isofix point is only taking the weight of a booster seat. It t is the adult seatbelt which is taking the childs weight. Much less than a 5pt harness seat with up to 22kgs child.

Edited by lsolaBella, 05 March 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#24 TomHubbard

Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (dadathome @ 28/02/2013, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But I can quite rightly still express my firmly held view that Austrlalia dramatically lags the Western world in terms of child seat standards, to a degree which, to me, approaches criminal negligence.


This is a little over the top. Our Standard is one of the best in the world, and things we do here are being adopted world-wide. We're the only country whose Standard includes side impact performance requirements, which the 2013 Standard expands upon dramatically. Our child/vehicle mortality rates have dramatically dropped, and are among the best in the world (especially considering our population, age of our fleet, and the amount of road we travel each year.

In my opinion, the biggest issue in car safety is education. The vast majority of fatalities are a direct result of mis-use of child restraints (or no use at all).

#25 TeaTimeTreat

Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (TomHubbard @ 14/03/2013, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a little over the top. Our Standard is one of the best in the world, and things we do here are being adopted world-wide. We're the only country whose Standard includes side impact performance requirements, which the 2013 Standard expands upon dramatically. Our child/vehicle mortality rates have dramatically dropped, and are among the best in the world (especially considering our population, age of our fleet, and the amount of road we travel each year.

In my opinion, the biggest issue in car safety is education. The vast majority of fatalities are a direct result of mis-use of child restraints (or no use at all).


But that is the whole point of ISOFIX, the rate of misuse is far lower and on average the seats score higher for side impact test (Australia is not the only place where car seats are side impact tested), and even if they were only just as safe as a correctly installed car seat with TT and seat belt install in the real world children will be safer because there will be a lower rate of incorect install.

It is a combination of protectionism and fear of change IMO that is holding us back and I am very disapointed that the industry has to be slowly dragged towards improvements in our standards.




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