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Sherlock Holmes - would you diagnose ....
--total fluff--


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#1 Frazzled Cat

Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

ADD or on the autism spectrum somewhere?


I've seen both theories posited online and although I don't have the knowledge either way, I must say that the evidence for ADD reminds strongly of myself.   (In No way am I suggesting that I'm brilliant in any comparable way)

So, if you had to diagnose on the evidence, what would you say?

(Re-stating -  THIS IS TOTAL FLUFF)

#2 JustBeige

Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:15 AM

Which Holmes are you talking about? biggrin.gif

The RDJ one is very very different to the JLM one wiith BC somewhere in between (I think).   The RDJ is just smart and arrogant (I still love him though). The JLM one does have quirks but he also has an addictive personality, so some of his quirks or repetitions could be do to with that or OCD more than AS.   I think the BC one also has quirks but not necessarily OCD, more social awkwardness tainted by arrogance because he observes so much.     None of them are totally literal and detect nuances in life.

Unlike 'Sheldon' who is socially awkward and arrogant and couldnt detect a social  nuance if it smacked him in the face.  Jim Parsons once said that he plays him with Aspie traits as he felt thats how his mind worked.  



#3 Frazzled Cat

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:14 AM

Most of the theories I've seen are based on the book version, which is why I have no opinion, as I've really only seen the Downey movies and the Cumberbatch series.  I refuse to watch Elementary on principle Tounge1.gif

Given the one book I have read some time ago, I would say the BC verse is the closer of the two.

#4 futureself

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Soprano-Cat @ 25/02/2013, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I refuse to watch Elementary on principle Tounge1.gif

I get around my horror of the 'adjustments' they have made to the Sherlock universe in Elementary by simply refusing to acknowledge that Joan is Watson and that this is supposed to be Sherlock Holmes and merely view the show as a clever crime drama  happy.gif I'm quite enjoying it and think JLM portrays an interesting character...
I agree that BC does a Sherlock closest to what is portrayed in the books and he's definitely 'quirky'. I think perhaps Sherlock is on the spectrum

#5 madmother

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

Can someone translate the shorthand for a sleep deprived mumma?

Who is BC? Or what?


#6 madmother

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

Oh, and JLM and RDJ distract me from such theories with their HOTNESS!

#7 Punky's Dilemma

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

BC stands for Benedict Cumberbatch - Sherlock Holems in the BBC's Sherlock

Having only read some of the books and only watching Sherlock I think that the character is definitely open to interpretation. Personally I think the Sherlock's quirkiness is due mainly just to character flaws rather than ASD or ADD, especially when you take into account the time in which it was written and therefore the author's intent when creating the character, and that Conan Doyle's had no knowledge of either ADD or ASD. I have always read Sherlock as someone who has very little social awareness and is very arrogant simply because he is so caught up in the problems that he solves and his addictions. However, I think BC does portray him as possibly having quirks that are due to something more.

As opposed to Tony Hill in Wire in the Blood, which I think there is a stronger case for ASD or ADD due to the contemporary setting of the original books.

#8 ~*Twilight~Zone*~

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

The BBC has a Sherlock showing as well?  Is this free to air TV or paid TV?

#9 JustBeige

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:07 PM

QUOTE (blue.bird @ 25/02/2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BC stands for Benedict Cumberbatch - Sherlock Holems in the BBC's Sherlock

Oh MM, you HAVE to have a look at this one if you love the other two.

QUOTE (blue.bird @ 25/02/2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have always read Sherlock as someone who has very little social awareness and is very arrogant simply because he is so caught up in the problems that he solves and his addictions. However, I think BC does portray him as possibly having quirks that are due to something more.

I agree. Very much to the book.

QUOTE (blue.bird @ 25/02/2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As opposed to Tony Hill in Wire in the Blood, which I think there is a stronger case for ASD or ADD due to the contemporary setting of the original books.
Oh yes, his poor character. what a mess he was in the end


QUOTE (Ferdinand @ 25/02/2013, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't read the books and have only seen the BC version, I don't think he has either ASD or ADD. He's just a sociopath.
  Why do you say that? as opposed to just socially awkward and NPD or arrogant

#10 JustBeige

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

QUOTE (~*Twilight~Zone*~ @ 25/02/2013, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The BBC has a Sherlock showing as well?  Is this free to air TV or paid TV?

Dont know about the BBC, but the BC Sherlock was free to air here.  Another series has been commissioned for this year, so I cant wait and I hope we get to see it this year and not in 3years time!

#11 ednaboo

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

OP, I don't know because I didn't watch Sherlock.  I just wanted to say Jonny Lee Miller is wonderful!

#12 kadoodle

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

Ignoring the film and television remakes, I was under the impression that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle intended Holmes to be a brilliant psychopath and Dr Watson as his damaged moderating influence.  Oh the slash you could write....

#13 ZombieMum

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

Personally I think there are plenty of English characters (IRL and in fiction) that have Aspie traits. wink.gif

I often wonder if Shakespeare could have had it as well.

#14 JaneLane

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

There is definately 'something' about holmes that it hard to pin point .  I love both RDJ and JLM.  Never seen BC, is that the one with a quite young looking Holmes I remember seeing ads for years ago?

I love JLM in whatever he does, great actor.  I must find my trainspotting DVD and watch it after the kids go to bed!

#15 Frazzled Cat

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

I wouldn't have thought a sociopath/psychopath would have been able to be moderated by an outside influence?

Stop Calling Sherlock a Sociopath! Thanks, a Psychologist.


I think points in favour of ASD were:  fixation on a topic of interest, lack of social awareness, pattern-findings

Points in favour of ADD - hyperfocus and excitement when case arrives, almost immediate lapse into boredom when not working, fidgetiness, weird experiments to occupy brain.

#16 kadoodle

Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:34 PM

Very interesting, thanks, SC.

#17 PatG

Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE (blue.bird @ 25/02/2013, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BC stands for Benedict Cumberbatch - Sherlock Holems in the BBC's Sherlock

Having only read some of the books and only watching Sherlock I think that the character is definitely open to interpretation. Personally I think the Sherlock's quirkiness is due mainly just to character flaws rather than ASD or ADD, especially when you take into account the time in which it was written and therefore the author's intent when creating the character, and that Conan Doyle's had no knowledge of either ADD or ASD.



Why does Doyle's lack of "knowledge" of ADD or ASD preclude him from writing a character with ASD or ADD traits - just because he didn't have current terminology to label people doesn't mean he didn't know people who would, in the current world, potentially be diagnosed with something specific.

#18 JustBeige

Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:04 AM



V
QUOTE (Ferdinand @ 25/02/2013, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was right there in the script - in the first episode. It was written as an off the cuff comment, but it is totally Moffat's style to have the answer right there in plain sight.

eta: I hadn't previously seen ^ that article.

Oh OK, I didnt know that. Thank you original.gif

Very interesting article too.

#19 Dream Foundations

Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:02 AM

QUOTE (ZombieMum @ 25/02/2013, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally I think there are plenty of English characters (IRL and in fiction) that have Aspie traits. wink.gif

I often wonder if Shakespeare could have had it as well.


I have a friend who believes that all of the English are on the spectrum somewhere - she has an ex and a doctorate in psychology to go with that hypothesis.

I accidentally caught Elementary this week and haven't had the joy of watching much else in the last decade Sherlock related, but often fictional main detectives traits are exaggerated to highlight their detecting.  The fact that this accidentally identifies traits similar to ASD, NPD etc.

Its funny that we can accept it in a male detective - Miss Marple, however, will always  be a nosy busybody with too much time on her hands and too many dead bodies launching themselves at her holiday destinations.

#20 leisamd

Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:13 AM

Ha, I'm halfway through the book right now.  My favourite is the  BBC Holmes.

I honestly don't think he'd be on the spectrum or anything else.  I think he is highly intelligent.  He gets along well with Watson and is very charming to most people - even one's he's just met.  He understands and intuitively grasps other people's emotions and motivations.  I nearly said he was introverted but I don't think so actually, in some cases he is quite outgoing.  I guess still introverted (keeps to himself, only 1 or 2 close friends) but not shy or even awkward.  Just chooses the company of his own thoughts.

Also, a drug user.  I wouldn't even say NPD or Psychopath, there are instances where he feels real empathy for his clients...

I think these sorts of traits are greatly exaggerated on the screen.  In the book Watson doesn't seem annoyed with him at all.

Edited by leisamd, 26 February 2013 - 07:14 AM.





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