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ACT to debate sex & gender
Complicating things?

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#1 TwiceThe Woman

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:01 AM

I can't believe this is being brought up for discussion, but there you go........


I'm in the "Keep It Simple" camp...
...if the person has an "inner" - they're a girl - if it's an "outee" - they're a boy.
(hermaphrodites now have DNA testing to help sort that out).
Do we need to include various gender definitions on government documents?
I see "gender" as such, as a post-puberty "between the ear" lifestyle situation rather than what's at their groin, so I don't see a place for "transgender" or anything else to necessarily go on the birth certificate or passport.  
I have known some people to swap from one gender preference to another over their lifetime, so I fail to see what relevance it has on formal documentation.
I wouldn't like a man claiming he has the right to be in a woman's change room/toilet as he "feels" female.
Oh and as for "...in keeping with other jurisdictions" - please inform us of them?
Am I missing something?  I fail to understand the demand for the requirement.
I can only imagine how complicated it would make things.

#2 CupOfCoffee

Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:12 AM

I think it is important to recognise what happens in the complexity of humans (at birth and as they grow).

I don't know anybody transgender or born intersex, so all I know is what I see and hear, but I was watching a show about the Thai 'Lady Boys' and I didn't realise some of the difficulties they faced because they were women, but legally still recognised as male.

Things like getting a passport and travelling and other ID, which stated they were male (when they are women, even having full surgery and hormones since before puberty).  So travelling to other countries became difficult.  

They couldn't do certain activities which were for women only (in one instance a woman entered a beauty competition and won, it was discovered she was legally a man and arrested and sent to a male prison).

So while these are Thai conditions, I fully support legally recognising who a person is.

(I don't think men are going to start using this to get into women's change rooms).

#3 Jane Jetson

Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

Being intersex or transgender and trying to get into the women's change rooms while male is not the same ballpark. It's not even the same game.

I think this discussion is a good move for a number of reasons, including that it is fairer to intersex and transgender people, and that anything that helps break down the Me Tarzan-You Jane rigid binary divide between the sexes in Australia (and the silly stereotyping that goes on) has to be a positive thing.

It's not a case of keeping it simple. It's not simple in nature.

#4 Tarantara

Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as a performing a genetic test to determine how a person experiences sex and gender.

Many less usual things can occur, such as XXY, a single X, other mosaic results of the two chromosomes which usually determine a person's sex.

Androgen insensitivity can also have a huge affect on brain and physical development, resulting in external and psychological presentations which may be at odds with genetic results.

There is a lot of information available about intersex and transgender people, but it is not something I was aware of until I spent some time at work on LGBTI issues. I think it would be helpful if these issues were more readily discussed in society, it would remove a lot of the mystery and misunderstanding.

Here is one link which provides some helpful information:

A couple of years ago, the Australian Human Rights Commission did some work to better protect people on the basis of gender identity. http://www.humanrights.gov.au/genderdivers..._files2009.html

I think it is great that these things are being talked about.

#5 Green Fairy

Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:09 PM

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as a performing a genetic test to determine how a person experiences sex and gender.

Exactly! Yes the majority of us fit quite comfortably into one of two categories at the moment, male or female. However I think there is a very real need to acknowledge that these aren't the only two categories.

Edited by Green Fairy, 18 February 2013 - 08:09 PM.

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