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Gifted & Talented Primary years #26


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#1 Therese

Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

New thread time original.gif

Your last thread is Here

#2 qak

Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:25 PM

Gold!


#3 LiveLife

Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:45 PM

ok Ill play

silver

#4 qak

Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:44 AM

Well FWIW we have decided to do the test.  It's in two weeks!

Should I be doing any preparation?



#5 WonkieTonkie

Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

There's nothing you can do to prepare except for letting your child know what they will be doing. I remember how nerve wracking it was original.gif

#6 *Tess*

Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:08 PM

I would recommend telling your child that there will be questions they will get wrong or don't know the answer to and that's OK.

#7 ednaboo

Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

lol - I don't think you need to prepare for IQ testing!  biggrin.gif

I was wondering about getting my DD tested.  Her teacher thinks she is gifted (and I am confident they are right).  I have discovered you can get IQ testing for $165 at a local universities psychology clinic.  She is 5.5.  My query is whether to get tested now, using the WPPSI, or wait until she is a bit older and get the WISC?  Does it matter?

#8 nellymac

Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

Hello all,

Just popping in to ask for some recommendations for Brisbane psychologists who deal with gifted children for IQ assessment but also the possiblility of a learning disorder which is being masked by their giftedness.

My son is 7.5 and has commenced Grade 2 this year.  He has always been a very bright boy and since starting school we have become aware of just how quickly he learns.  His literacy skills are about 3 years ahead of his age and his numeracy skills are also well advanced on his current age peers. He does out of class reading and comprehension extension and creative writing club out of class but is not extended out of class with his numeracy skills.

We have always been aware though that he has problems with disorganisation and concentration, and remembering what he is asked to do.  He is often "tuned out" and we need to repeat requests to do things several times which is becoming very frustrating at home and my concern is that this will start to become a problem in the school environment.

It came to a head last week when I kept asking him every day to bring home his homework exercise book but he kept forgetting and I turned up to school on Friday morning to find his homework book sitting in his desk drawer with 2 weeks of maths homework sheets not done.  

Of course when he brought home the book on Friday evening he raced through the 2 weeks worth of homework in about 10 minutes as it was very simple for him, but this is really not good enough in terms of his organisation skills and remembering to bring home his homework book each day.

I spoke with his teacher and asked if she had noted any problems with him at school and she said yes he is often not listening and can't remember what has been  asked of him and needs redirection.He alsoran out of time to do maths exercises in class because he could not organise himself to get all his things together and make a start or was otherwise too distracted to make a start.

She had never mentioned any of this previously and because he could do the work easily enough, she was obviously not concerned.  But I find all of this very concerning and am wondering why he is having these difficulties.

So whilst I have until now avoided having him assessed as he has been happy at school and doing well, I am concerned that there may be something going on with him that is affecting  attention and concentration in class that we should know about so we can help him in the future.

Of course, it is possible he is bored or thinking about something else entirely which is fine, but again if we know this is the case, then he may need further extension.

Any help or advice would be appreciated too.

#9 baddmammajamma

Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:40 PM

Hi nellymac:

Two thoughts:

1) I belong to a fabulous network of parents of twice exceptional kids (gifted kids with special needs and/or learning differences), which also includes a number of professionals who work with 2e kids. It is primarily a NSW-based group, but the head of it lives in QLD and is well connected. I will ask them for specific recommendations re psychologists who understand "gifted with glitches."

2) Have you seen this (of course, it's not appropriate for us to make online diagnoses -- but some of the content might resonate with you...it did for me!)

http://www.addvance.com/help/parents/gifted_child.html

#10 nellymac

Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:08 AM

Thanks BMJ. That would be very much appreciated if you could.

Certainly does describe many of my son's characteristics and to be honest quite possibly me too!!  And he also does have mild anxiety at times which we keep a close eye on.

He has actually gone up to sick bay 6 times in the first 3  weeks of school complaining of various problems, but is always well when he is at home.  He denies that school is worrying him but I think there must be something going on for him which is making him anxious there.

I had wondered about ADD but also thought he might have an auditory processing problem.

It is funny because I have 3 children and I spend nowhere near as much time worrying about the other 2 as I do about this boy!

#11 ednaboo

Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:53 AM

nellymac: your DS has many characteristics in common with my DS.  He was assessed and is gifted plus ADHD.  He was in grade 2 last year and really struggled, though he had problems with schoolwork all along.  I spent ages looking at different educational psychologists in my local area, including a few that specialised in gifted and /or ADHD.  I decided not to go with these and instead went with an independant paediatric neuropsychologist.  We got an extremely detailed report, which ruled out APD, and dyslexia etc and ruled in ADHD (mixed inattentive/hyperactive) plus the gifted intelligence.  So for us, we didn't have to see someone who specialised in gifted or ADHD to get a good assessment, just someone who specialised in kids and is an expert in assessment and diagnosis.  HTH

#12 eeb73

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

Hello,
I have posted in here a couple of times about a proposed, and now actual, grade skip for my son.   We based the grade skip on the school's WISC testing of our son and his achievement tests in class.  During this decision i have been trying to look at the evidence for grade skipping and most of it uses terms like moderately, highly etc gifted.  I could care less what level of giftedness my son has but i would like to know when  i look at these studies which group he falls into.  We were never 'allowed' to have the school results and only had graphs showing where he was on the bell curve.  As a scientist i found this very difficult.  I like to know numbers it is in my nature. What did come from the school testing was that he scored very high on the verbal comprehension (at least top 0.1%) and in the top percent or couple of percent for all the others.  Based on this i guess i thought perhaps (but only really guessing) he was highly gifted and thus in most studies this makes him a candidate for acceleration. From what i have seen it is the highly gifted students that are often good candidates for grade acceleration. Is that correct?
To try and help us make a decision we decided to have him tested independently and the testers used the SB-5. We had preliminary results which supported our decision but now have the full results.  I am trying to understand what they mean and for my purposes of understanding the best educational approaches for him, what group he might fit into.
This is where is gets very confusing. As suggested here, i have gone to the Hoagies site where they have a useful comparison table for the different tests and based on this he would be highly gifted but on the Gifted minds site he would be gifted. Can anyone give me any guidance on how i should think about this?  The SB5 test seems to produce a lower number than many of the other tests so i am not sure whether it is useful for me to look at sites where they don't specify the test but will divide up into levels of giftedness based on IQ number.  
I guess the results make me worry that perhaps it was unnecessary to accelerate him (perhaps i am also thinking this as he is still struggling a little to fit in socially). As i said i am scientist and i want to look at the evidence and this confusion makes it difficult.  
I have posted the results below in case any one has some thoughts about them and what they might mean for what he needs educationally.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts,
E.
Percentile Rank
Fluid Reasoning 135 99th
Knowledge 143 99.8th
Quantitative Reasoning 125 95th
Visual-Spatial Processing 126 96th
Working Memory 123 94th
DOMAIN
Nonverbal IQ                             132 98th
Verbal IQ                                   135 99th
Full Scale IQ                               135         99th



Nonverbal Tests Scaled score (1-19)               Verbal Tests Scaled score (1-19)
Fluid Reasoning (routing)           15               Fluid Reasoning                     17*
Knowledge                                19*             Knowledge (routing)               16*
Quantitative Reasoning              14               Quantitative Reasoning           15
Visual-Spatial Processing           13                Visual-Spatial Processing        16*
Working Memory                      14                 Working Memory                   14
NVFR (matrices ss15)
Verbal Knowledge (vocab ss 16).


#13 lillemor

Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

Hi there. I'm hoping to find some support here as right now I'm not really sure where to turn.

We have 2 children; our DS is 4 and will be 5 late May. Our DD is just 2. My feeling is that is difficult to summarise why I have come here and my experience with our children in a short message but I will do my best!

I was a PEAC child and my brother has an extremely high IQ of around 170 old scale from what I can gather. My brother has struggled socially, and even as a mature adult finds it difficult to fit in socially. We have both has sleep issues most of our lives.

With this background I wanted to do what I could for my son that many people comment is very similar to my brother. Both of my children have met milestones early and DS has been a confident, happy child. What I began noticing when he was around 2 was that he was happier with older children and was already quite beyond the level of his peers. At this time he also started showing frustration over his peers not understanding things at his level. I have found my parenting a complete joy but an aspect that has been difficult and isolating in some ways has been where the children are at, because I felt I could never share joy in their milestones because people took it as gloating or at least I feared that or the rejection I received from being ahead in some ways.

My DS was very ready for 3 year old kinder and we chose a play based centre as we had a more free-range approach at home and I wanted somewhere that would be respectful of our more alternative choices [we are very fussy with additives etc due to having enough issues with sleep without that in the mix!]. This was only 5 hours a week and from the get go we were disappointed with the activities on offer: puzzles that DS was doing at 1 year of age etc. But at this point he was going for the social enjoyment which he did thrive with. Slowly the teachers got frustrated that he wouldn't 'comply' and have quiet time. If he sleeps in the day he is up til midnight and beyond so we totally get this, and the activities were not extending him. He wasn't stimulated and started getting bored. Though he tells me it doesn't matter if the other children aren't doing the things he is.

He also went through a period of anxiety, lip licking a little and eye blinking. He would stammer very slightly in his speech so we took him to speech pathology. We went for 4-5 mths and the verdict was that people are so unwilling to listen to his long explanations and things he has to say that he feels he has to rush, as well as that his "amazing vocab" and "lots going on upstairs" is difficult for his mouth to catch up with.

We investigated trying to find him a place in school but it was not easy and then we were advised that he misses the cut off for being in prep/foundation year this year we would have to have an IQ test result to follow that through. Our close friends many of whom home school and our family have had mixed reactions but have that mythical concern for his social well being. My husband was bullied in school and is really apprehensive about us putting him forward.

I'm not a fan of comparison but I have read where many of your children are at and I'm not sure he is there, but I know he is not at the same level as his peers or children in his kinder class. When he moved to 4 year old kinder we had high hopes of it being more interesting but it is just not what he needs. His intricate paintings lack someone to talk to him about what they are as the kinder just doesn't offer that level of attention - at home we write a sentence about the drawing and he writes the key words and of course his own name which he has done for a few years. He is reading simple sentences with 3 and 4 letter words. They have 'Spot' books and Thomas there to be read TO the children, now WITH the children or even for the children to be reading to the helpers. I asked for an appt a few weeks back but was told to wait and when I explained his need for extension teacher said she has 22 children to focus on and is unlikely to be able to assist him. So his behaviour at home is getting more and more unusual for him. He screams and yells when things aren't what he expects for the last 3 weeks.

When I print worksheets out he enjoys that and is most happy when learning and doing new things. Where in the past we could negotiate he is now just running away, throwing, hitting. It has really upset me. However this started 2 weeks before kinder so it could just be a developmental stage. We advocate for gentle discipline. I'm just feeling unsure how to do the best for my son. I feel that he is well ready for school and that being at home or even at 4 year old kinder is really to his detriment right now. However yes it does feel sad to send my baby away for so much time of the week; and then the question or where we can find a place.

This brings me to the final question in my rambling; as mentioned I have been advised that in order for him to start school this year he would need to have IQ testing. I'm scared to label him :/ I'm scared for them to say he has a behavioural issue when at heart I believe he is just bored. I have not been able to find support in Victoria as there doesn't appear to be the same support groups other states have, though we spoke to a psychologist some time ago I am a bit unsure about how to choose who does the testing. THIS IS THE MAIN AREA THAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME HELP.

I feel that getting support now will be helpful too in preparing for my DD who was crawling at 4 months, walking at 8, speaking full sentences by 18mths and now at 2 knows her alphabet, singing detailed songs and counting well.

I tried joining a Facebook group in SA but it was broadcast to my friends on FB which I hadn't really wanted. I really appreciate you getting to the end of this ramble and offering any support and advice for us. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Many thanks - LM.

#14 AnnoyingAnt

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

If he's a May baby and so close to the cut off I don't think it would hurt to have an assessment done for early entry into kinder.  I am just saying this because we won the birthday lottery with DD (born in April) and she did really well starting when she was four - in fact a lot of it was very easy for her so I could never imagine having to wait a whole extra year (she started reading at 3.5). Socially she has fitted in really well despite being almost a year younger than some other kids (including her best friend)
Check with your local education department just what tests they need to consider early entry.  They can't recommend people but may be able to give you a list of psychologists who can do this kind of testing in your area. The psychologists who do the testing will not be looking for behavioural problems - just carrying out a test.  If you have any concerns or would just like advice on handling your very bright child you can always do this after testing.  Remember IQ tests are not the be all and end all.  They are just a measure of the performance of your child on a test on one day/session (if your child has anxiety or other problems the results may not necessary be reflected in test scores).  I have not had any IQ testing done on DD yet (I don't think she is highly gifted and we don't need test scores to access extension at this stage) but given that you sound like you son may benefit from early school entry I wouldn't hesitate.

#15 mum850

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

QUOTE (eeb73 @ 21/02/2013, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
E.
Percentile Rank
Fluid Reasoning 135 99th
Knowledge 143 99.8th
Quantitative Reasoning 125 95th
Visual-Spatial Processing 126 96th
Working Memory 123 94th
DOMAIN
Nonverbal IQ                             132 98th
Verbal IQ                                   135 99th
Full Scale IQ                               135         99th



Nonverbal Tests Scaled score (1-19)               Verbal Tests Scaled score (1-19)
Fluid Reasoning (routing)           15               Fluid Reasoning                     17*
Knowledge                                19*             Knowledge (routing)               16*
Quantitative Reasoning              14               Quantitative Reasoning           15
Visual-Spatial Processing           13                Visual-Spatial Processing        16*
Working Memory                      14                 Working Memory                   14
NVFR (matrices ss15)
Verbal Knowledge (vocab ss 16).


I say, highly gifted and excellent grade skip candidate.
(note i ma a parent not an ed psych)
the important number is FSIQ with is 99th centile, i.e. top 1%.
I would ask the ed psych if it's worth doing a GAI which takes out the influence of the WM if I recall correctly.
Lovely high and pretty  even scores. Congratulations.

#16 mum850

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (lillemor @ 21/02/2013, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really appreciate you getting to the end of this ramble and offering any support and advice for us. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Many thanks - LM.


Hello :-)

You totally need to have your kids tested, they sound amazing.... I am sure you know in your heart that I am right!
It's hard to find people with similar issues. Your kids are probably pretty highly gifted. Getting tested will enable you to know where to look and find others.
I am in Vic so I can't help with recs but Gifted Minds from sydney do travelling.

If you are looking for reading, I suggest the Hoagies Gifted site. It's great. Its motto...."you are not alone"!
Also Davidson's gifted forums  , also american.

Good luck!!!!!

#17 AggyW72

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

Hello
i sometimes pop in to read and absorb the wisdom here  - just wondering if anyone could look at my son's WISC results and throw a little light our way? We got the results and a diagnosis of Aspergers all in the week my darling SIL died so 6 months later we are still getting our act together.
Really just wanting advice as to whether further assessment would be of benefit? What else should/could we be doing.
DS attends a good public school, Grade 2 this year, he is 7.5. We requested his teacher this year and he is going better than expected. Last year was not so good with a lot of anxiety, and poor classroom experience - noise etc...and a very young, inexperienced teacher.

VCI - 114 (82nd)
PRI - 129 (97th) - scored 99th on the Block design - he is a LEGO fiend!
WMI - 86 (18th)
PSI - 112 (79th)
Full Scale IQ - 116 (86th)

Obviously his working memory is well below his other scores and this is where a great teacher comes in with lots of visual instruction! He also has low muscle tone, is left handed and finds handwriting a struggle. New teacher is scribing for him for creative writing tasks - we love her!
And feedback or advice is much appreciated!

#18 eeb73

Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE (mum850 @ 21/02/2013, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I say, highly gifted and excellent grade skip candidate.
(note i ma a parent not an ed psych)
the important number is FSIQ with is 99th centile, i.e. top 1%.
I would ask the ed psych if it's worth doing a GAI which takes out the influence of the WM if I recall correctly.
Lovely high and pretty  even scores. Congratulations.

Thank you for your response. I am new to all this and i find it hard to know what the reliable information is. I think with the SBV you can calculate a number which excludes the working memory - when i do the iq from this is 140.
I guess i am really trying to convince myself that we are doing the right thing for him.
Thanks again.
E


#19 katrina24

Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:23 PM

Hi eeb23, my DD has similar overall scores to your son.  We grade skipped (1-3) and I have doubts every day.  There is no real reason for my doubts though, she seems to be going very well. I've found it really hard to make the decision to grade skip and I think I'll continue to doubt myself for a while yet. dD is happy though and that's all that matters to me at the end of the day.

#20 kh79

Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

Lillemor - I agree that your little ones sound very bright. I can't give you any advice regarding testing as we are not in your state, however, I wanted to ask if there is an option to find a different 4 year old kinder whilst you sort early entry etc out?

We have our DS (who is also 4 (5 in November) in an early learning that is connected to the school he will go to.  We were very worried that he would not be challenged as we didn't advocate for extension (because he has Aspergers and we are dealing with the delays at the moment). Anyway he is LOVING it and his teacher is wonderful at extending him.

I think it's about finding the right place.

After much stress I am starting to realize that for our son he'll never be able to skip to the correct academic level (he's probably sitting at an 8-9 year olds level in reading and maths now) so the biggest key is finding the right learning environment for him.

One thing that we did last year and need to start doing again is Topic of the Week.  Where we explore a topic each week.  This extends him and challenges him in many ways, not just academic and we can pitch it to his level.

I wish you the best of luck and keep us updated:)



#21 mum850

Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

Update re early entry!
My dd4 has just been early entered this year to FYOS  after testing at 99.9th.
I cannot in any way find out from her any details of whether they are doing anything academic! She can read early readers but she denies that she has done any reading at all so far.
There is no problem at all with her confidence  - she has been getting into trouble for leaving the prep yard and having fights with grade 5 boys!   rolleyes.gif
But so far it seems to be going pretty well.
SHe often goes to before school care  due to my work commitments, and she is also doing swimming, martial arts twice a week, and after school care twice a week. BUt she is not tired! She is an energiser bunny.

#22 baddmammajamma

Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:05 PM

mum850: Maybe you need to stick a mini-cam on her uniform! wink.gif One of the reasons I love my daughter's shadow is that I get so much information!

nellymac: I have some Brisbane/QLD recs for you, thanks to the parents & psychs who are part of my 2e group. I will send them later today.

aggyw72, I am a fellow parent of a child with Aspergers. Sounds like your son's teacher is really on the ball. In terms of additional assessments, it might be handy to have some achievement testing done so you can discern just how his spiky profile impacts his learning (also a good way to get formal recognition of the areas where he should be accelerated).

You are in Melbourne, right? If so, I STRONGLY recommend that you catch Tony Attwood (Aspergers guru) presenting when he comes back this winter. You will walk away feeling empowered and much better able to appreciate the beautifully unusual wiring of kids with AS. He's co-presenting with Sue Larkey, who is an educational expert who specialized in kids with ASD. I'm going next month here in NSW -- having been to a presentation last year in Brisbane -- and I can't wait!

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php?op...&Itemid=741

http://www.suelarkey.com/

#23 hoohoobump

Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

Hi all,

Just popped in to let Brisbanites know that the QAGTC - Brisbane North (Stafford) has a 'Gifted Children with Learning Disability' info session 2/3/2013, 2.30-4.30pm.

Details on their site - www.qagtc.org.au


#24 ednaboo

Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

lillemor: my post 2 posts above yours outlines how we did it.  You mention the social difficulties your brother had, and that your son is similar.  Do you think it is worth having your DS clinically assessed, as well as IQ tested?  I strongly feel that in any case where there is apossiblity of more than 'just gifted' going on, a really thorough assessment is priceless.  Then you know right from the beginning just what you are dealing with and how best to help your child.  The paediatric neuropsych we used is in Melbourne and I can give you the details by PM if you want.  Or, there is also neuropsych testing offered by Monash Uni PHD students which would be cheaper.  Otherwise, if you want to go with IQ testing alone, there are many educational psychs around, some who specialise in gifted kids, (but TBH I don't think this is essential as we got our 'labels' without seeing someone who specialised in gifted kids).  There is a list here:
Gifted Resources click on Service Locator, then Psychologists and Education Consultants

I was apprehensive about getting DS labelled but in retrospect I have no regrets and it is much better IMHO to know exactly what your childs strengths and weaknesses are.



#25 AggyW72

Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

Thanks for your response BMJ, our Tony Atwood book is much esteemed here!! I will get onto DH to see if he can free me up so I can attend the June workshop. One of the reasons we pushed our GP for help was because of reading your informative post! We actually went to the GP when DS was about 4 with concerns but he wasn't convinced. But we have a good psych now and last week saw a new paediatrician who told us just to keep doing what we are doing, as we seem to be managing DS very well - phew!!

Anxiety is his greatest symptom and can really have an impact on his life. He has a birthday party to attend next weekend and I know he will be in tears for a lot of it and angry for the remainder because everything is beyond his control - but he really wants to go!! Its so hard to see him like that. He has relaxed a bit over the last 6 months so hopefully it will not be too bad for him.
Last night he cried for about half an hour because the dog ripped his favourite cushion so who knows?





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Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.