Jump to content

Why don't school development days occur during school holidays?
One for the teachers


  • Please log in to reply
130 replies to this topic

#1 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

Genuine curiosity, why don't school development days occur during the school holidays when the students aren't attending anyway?

#2 toosenuf

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE (YodaTheWrinkledOne @ 13/02/2013, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Genuine curiosity, why don't school development days occur during the school holidays when the students aren't attending anyway?



i have wondered about this too original.gif

#3 PrincessPeach

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

Public or Private School?

Pupil Free Days always used to be used for this sort of thing.

#4 Feraldadathome

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

Because government's haven't offered sufficient incentive to encourage teachers to attend work on their days of non-attendance. In NSW, agreement to individual, designated shcool development days was a big cost saving.

(in NSW at least, teachers get 4 week's annual leave, with the rest of the school holidays covered by official non-attendance. The annual salary accounts for that period of non-attendance)

#5 Heather11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays.  Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.

#6 liveworkplay

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

They do as well in some schools. Teachers are contracted to do a certain number of days per year (as well as a certain number of face to face teaching time). How the school organises that is up to their relevant governing bodies.

#7 somila

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

And there are so many contract staff these days. A couple of teachers in my staff room were "sacked" a week before the end of school last year, and their contracts were renewed in January.

They have been at the school for 3 or 4 years at least, and are both working as co-ordinators as well as classroom teachers and have significant extra-curricular involvement.

I'm assuming it's all about the money that the government saves over the summer holidays, but ...

Seriously, just give these people permanent employment!!!

Rant over.

#8 Lyra

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Heather11 @ 13/02/2013, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays.  Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.



This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.

#9 FeralRebelWClaws

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

I teach in the ACT (I've taught both College and High School) and ours are all in stand down.

This year school went back Feb 4th and teachers were required to be at PD on Jan 30th to Feb 1st. On the odd occasion where there aren't enough days at the beginning of the year then they will do another one in the April stand down. Like the year that easter was the last weekend of term and then they put a PD day on the Tuesday, which is awesome if your partner isn't a teacher and you would have liked to have had a holiday using the 4 days of Easter. Mind you I rarely have time to have a "holiday."

Edited by PussyDids, 13 February 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#10 Bam1

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 13/02/2013, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't occur during holidays because teachers are people too and need time off  rant.gif Many teachers use the school holidays to spend time with their children as well as do normal school work, I am sure they'd love to do extra work as well during their time off  rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif


But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc

Fortunately other PPs have put more logical reasons why they can't be taken during the school holidays.

#11 Yogurtbliss

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

I knew eventually this would come down to the ten weeks holidays! In reality, teachers are paid for 6 hours work a day (in Queensland- yep that's on our pay slips!) despite being at work for about 8 hours to complete the school day. Work done at home, parent teacher evenings, camps etc do not attract any further pay. Oh and the holidays are at a fixed time every year which can be tough if you need to go away for a wedding etc, you can't take it out of your annual leave, you usually just can't go.

This said, it is a rewarding career, and the holidays certainly make it easier to catch up on planning and marking when required, as well as to reenergise for another great term!

From an administration point of view, there are limited providers of quality professional development, if we limited the times available, the development may not necessarily be quality.

Finally, teachers are required to do 30 hours professional development annually to maintain their accreditation (also Queensland) so it is reasonable that at least some of these hours occur during term time, or I think we would see even more teachers leaving the profession due to burn out!


#12 José

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

I find it hard to believe that this is a serious question. I used to work in retail where we had product training sessions but you werent expected to attend if you were on holidays.  I have also worked in tourism where we had training sessions but again those on leave were not expected to attend.  Not sure why teachers would be different?

#13 Yogurtbliss

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

Some the school will cover, some you end up paying for yourself, which can be claimed on tax.

Most (all I have ever been to!) are run during school hours, minus breaks, so you only end up with 5 hours per day, not sure if that is school or presenter preference though!



#14 KT1978

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE
And there are so many contract staff these days. A couple of teachers in my staff room were "sacked" a week before the end of school last year, and their contracts were renewed in January.

They have been at the school for 3 or 4 years at least, and are both working as co-ordinators as well as classroom teachers and have significant extra-curricular involvement.

I'm assuming it's all about the money that the government saves over the summer holidays, but ...


QUOTE
One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays. Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.


I don't understand how they are saving money by "sacking" people when they aren't paid in holidays to start with anyway.

Shouldn't contract workers be on a higher rate to account for annual leave etc?



#15 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (PrincessPeach @ 13/02/2013, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Public or Private School?

Pupil Free Days always used to be used for this sort of thing.

Does it matter?

I figured it's called "Pupil Free Days" for the students and parents sake, but the teachers/staff realise it's for their own planning/development etc.

QUOTE (Lyra @ 13/02/2013, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.

that's bad planning.  sad.gif

QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 13/02/2013, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't occur during holidays because teachers are people too and need time off  rant.gif Many teachers use the school holidays to spend time with their children as well as do normal school work, I am sure they'd love to do extra work as well during their time off  rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif

Okay, you don't have to rant.  I'm trying to understand this.  The average punter has no idea about the working arrangements for teachers.  I'm not trying to be deliberately inflammatory, I'm trying to understand why it is so.  

Other jobs/professions have 4 weeks of annual leave (usually) to have some time off and spend time with their family.  Given that there is around 10 weeks of school holidays when students do not attend, I presume that for most teacher, the 10 weeks of student non-attendance includes standard 4 weeks annual leave, leaving 6 weeks of school holidays where teachers/staff do not go into the "office", so to speak.  I was just wondering why staff development and training can't be done during this student non-attendence time.

And teachers are not the only profession to do longer hours than required contact/office hours.  My sympathy on that score is not high.  Yes, it's intense during school term, but for many teachers they get a good break every three months or so.

QUOTE (Bam1 @ 13/02/2013, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc

This is what I was trying to ask.  Thank you.

QUOTE
This year school went back Feb 4th and teachers were required to be at PD on Jan 30th to Feb 1st. On the odd occasion where there aren't enough days at the beginning of the year then they will do another one in the April stand down.

Genuinely curious, why wouldn't there be enough days in January?


QUOTE ( @ 13/02/2013, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find it hard to believe that this is a serious question. I used to work in retail where we had product training sessions but you werent expected to attend if you were on holidays.  I have also worked in tourism where we had training sessions but again those on leave were not expected to attend.  Not sure why teachers would be different?

I'm not expected to attend training on my holidays.  Mind you, I don't have 6 weeks a year when I have no client/office contact.

I'm confused - do permanent teachers get paid for 40 weeks of work, spread over 52 weeks?  Or do permanent teachers get paid for 48 weeks, spread over 52 weeks? (second option is what happens with most people - 48 weeks of work + 4 weeks of annual leave = 52 weeks).

I have been a contract teacher/lecturer (university), so I completely get that as a contract employee, you are only paid for the term of teaching, not for time outside of the teaching term. Higher rate of pay but the pay has to last for the periods of time when you are not teaching (which is painful over Xmas).  Mind you, even as a contract employee, if I was expected to undertake training, I was paid for this, and it occurred outside of my face-to-face teaching timetable.  They didn't expect me to not teach for a few days during semester when students were waiting, training usually occurred on a non-teaching day or during the evenings.

Sorry, my question was not meant to inflame.  But I don't really know what the work/pay arrangements are for teachers, hence my curiosity about why this happens.

Edited by YodaTheWrinkledOne, 13 February 2013 - 01:04 PM.


#16 FeralRebelWClaws

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (Bam1 @ 13/02/2013, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc


If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their leave periods.

The more that is asked of teachers, with no compensation, the lower quality of graduate teaching attracts.

Honestly, I tend to spend the first week of my stand down catching up on sleep. Teaching is incredibly draining and I teach fantastic mature kids who are 16-18 (I have 1 class with students with special needs). I would imagine it is worse for those teaching 5 year olds!

I get really tired of feeling as though I have to justify my salary, my holidays, my work hours etc to society. TBH it's the worse part of the job. No one feels compelled to have opinions on the conditions of doctors, or swimming teachers or dance coaches or any other person that comes in regular contact with children.

#17 Heather11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Lyra @ 13/02/2013, 11:00 AM)
This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.
that's bad planning.


This can be due also to a sudden influx of enrollments over the summer holidays.  At a public school you can rock up on the first day and enrol.  This may mean they have to add an extra class and employee another staff member.

#18 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I get really tired of feeling as though I have to justify my salary, my holidays, my work hours etc to society. TBH it's the worse part of the job. No one feels compelled to have opinions on the conditions of doctors, or swimming teachers or dance coaches or any other person that comes in regular contact with children.

Sorry.  It's DD's first year and so it's the first time I've had to grapple with the whole student-free day thing on top of school holidays.  When you only have 4 weeks of annual leave and no back-up family/support, it can be a big issue as to how to find care for your kids on these extra student-free days.

I think teachers are great.  All the teachers I know put a lot of effort into their teaching, care about their students and have more patience/stamina than I would have with a classroom of kids.  My question was not meant as a criticism, but more a genuine curiosity about how this came to pass.

Edited by YodaTheWrinkledOne, 13 February 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#19 niggles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

I work with teachers, and we often have them coming in on their school holidays to plan and arrange resources with us. Some also attend professional development sessions with us in their own holiday time.

Mandated professional development arranged by the school has to be done in term time because at other times the teachers are on holidays and their time is their own. Just like any other profession.

#20 farfaraway

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thank you PussyDids for articulating what my seething brain could not. Well said.  cclap.gif

#21 pitzinoodles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their


I really don't understand this. Can you spell it out for me please.

#22 Milly Molly Mandy

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

Seriously OP? Because it is their holidays! As to how many weeks holidays they have it doesn't really matter. The time you think they should be training is part of their agreed holidays.

I guess thd alternative is to not give them any training time at all. Let's see how that works.

Teachers you rock!!! You do a great job teaching our kids and helping them grow into the adults they will become. All of this done with a smile on your face despite the b**chy misinformed parents (not directed at anyone here) you have to deal with.

Enjoy your well deserved holidays.

#23 SarahBelle48

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their leave periods.

But those 12 weeks would be covered by the "official non-attendance periods" that PPs mentioned, wouldn't they? As in over the 52 weeks, the total number of hours worked would probably balance out. This is a genuine question btw, I'm not having a go at you or anything.

Also rather than starting another thread, can I just use this thread to clarify something in regards to teachers and leave. When its said that they have 4 weeks annual leave, is this leave absorbed by the school holiday periods or in addition to? As incould you use that 4 weeks leave during school terms? Its just that I had a family member who is a teacher and she was always going off on 2-3 week long holidays during school terms and we always wondered how she got the leave to do that.

#24 pitzinoodles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Milly Molly Mandy @ 13/02/2013, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seriously OP? Because it is their holidays! As to how many weeks holidays they have it doesn't really matter. The time you think they should be training is part of their agreed holidays.


So are teachers only paid for 42weeks/yr?

I am genuinely trying to get my head around the whole thing.

Edited to fix up number of weeks.

Edited by pitzinoodles, 13 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.


#25 Blossom73

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

As I understand it - (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) teachers are paid an annual salary for the year. They get 4 weeks paid annual leave as part of that salary.

The additional weeks of school holiday beyond this are not paid.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

5 workplace lessons for new parents

Take heart in these principles that will transfer seamlessly from the workplace into your new life as a parent.

Review: The Volvo 2015 XC90 SUV has all the safety features your family needs

The new Volvo XC90 SUV's focus on keeping you safe does not come at the expense of comfort in the XC90.

Kim Kardashian reveals she may have hysterectomy

Kim Kardashian has revealed complications during pregnancy means she might have to have a hysterectomy after the birth of her second child.

Why late night snacks wreak havoc on weight loss

 Loath as you may be to admit it, chances are that at some point you have found yourself in the kitchen late at night, devouring food.

Toddler twins pretend to be asleep to fool mum

They say twins have a unique connection. If this cute clip is anything to go by, these toddler sisters like to use their special bond to try to fool their mother.

Dads who do their share have more sex: study

For women trying to encourage their partners to take more interest in fatherhood, it could be the ultimate incentive.

Think you might have IBS, coeliac disease or Crohn's? Here's what you need to know

Conditions affecting the gastrointestinal tract are common in modern humans, and many are on the rise - including irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and coeliac disease.

Couple poses for newborn shoot with adorable puppy

Tired of being asked about their baby-making plans, Australian couple Matt and Abby decided to give a creative answer.

Win a Mountain Buggy Swift

To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.

When your toddler disagrees

There comes a time when your child starts having different views to you. I didn't realise that time would come so soon.

The exercises you know you should be doing (but probably aren't)

I bet your to-do list today is long. But somewhere on that massive list, are you making time for your pelvic floor?

How did we have babies before apps came along?

Three months ago, my wife, Chrysta, and I were driving along Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles when she let out a harrowing cry.

This baby really loves the family cat

Some babies get excited when mum or dad come to get them from their cot after a nap.

Woman gives birth after having her own mother's uterus transplanted

In a world first, a healthy baby has been born from the same womb that nurtured his own mother.

Home brand foods contain less salt than pricier rivals

Supermarket home brand foods, long derided as cheap and inferior, contain far lower levels of salt than pricier, branded rivals, new research shows.

Early exposure to peanuts recommended for allergy prevention

A paediatricians' group is recommending that infants at high risk of peanut allergies be given foods containing peanuts before they turn one.

Nannies for hire, wherever you're flying

Ever dreaded the prospect of a long flight, dreaming about how wonderful it would be for a nanny to entertain the kids?

Is it okay to name your baby with a sense of humour?

My husband was sure that Danger was a good option for a boy. And as the pregnancy progressed, it actually started to sound really good.

So hot right now: double-barrelled baby names on the rise

It's one way to make your baby stand out from the pack – giving them not one, but two first names.

Second time around: is it really better the devil you know?

When I fell pregnant with my second child I was, naturally, very excited. Then it all started to come back to me - and I freaked.

Shopping with kids: breaking the pester-power cycle

You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

The worst 20 minutes of my life

Thirty seconds was all it took to turn a shopping trip into my worst nightmare.

Top baby names for England and Wales in 2014

George has overtaken William in the official rankings of most popular British baby names - and Game of Thrones is still having an impact on parents.

Baseball or baby? Dad's tough choice

What's more important, a baby or a baseball? That's a question this dad seems to struggle with.

Childbirth choices: five star or free?

It's not often you hear the words labour and luxury in the same sentence but for some, a 5-star start to parenthood is exactly what they seek. And with a number of private hospitals now offering packages which include a post-birth stay at a sumptuous first class resort, many mums are choosing to recover in style.

'Where did your boobies go, Mummy?' and other soul-destroying comments from kids

Most women carry a smidge of baby weight after giving birth. If you're lucky enough to have an older child in the house, they can keep you on track with your weight loss goals.

Do you read me, baby?

Is it too soon to be reading to my two-month-old son? If not, what should I read?

Minimising sibling rivalry when you've got a baby

Sibling rivalry is an act of competition, but if your children feel involved and special, this type of jealousy will be minimised.

Will studying on maternity leave take you away from your most important job?

I remember when I was trying to decide if I could combine motherhood and furthering my university education.

Win a Pacapod this Father's Day

To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW

Preschooler hit by car shortly after baby brother's death

A mother has had a frantic race to the hospital after her daughter was hit by a car, just four weeks after her infant son died.

Gay couple and Thai surrogate in custody tug-of-war

A six-month-old baby girl is trapped in the Thai capital in a bitter custody wrangle between her Thai surrogate mother and her biological father.

Couple denied IVF over parenting concerns

A mother of six has been denied access to IVF treatment in order to have another child over concerns about her parenting skills.

The book that promises to put your children to sleep

Exhausted parents from around the world are singing the praises of a "miracle" book which promises to put even the most restless child to sleep in just minutes.

5 things every parent who feels guilty needs to know

Parenthood can make you feel bad, but you're not alone.

Royals criticise 'dangerous' attempts to photograph Prince George

The British royal family criticized paparazzi on Friday for what it called their increasingly dangerous attempts to photograph young Prince George.

'No jab, no play' rule to cover Victorian kindergartens and childcare centres

"Anti-vaxxers" face not being able to send their children to childcare centres or kindergarten if they refuse to have them immunised.

15,000 birthing kits on their way to developing countries

Giving birth in a hospital surrounded by medical experts is tough enough, but some women deliver babies without a clean sheet to lie on.

Photo of premmie 'too graphic', fundraising site says

When their son Jacob was born at just 27 weeks, Christina and Jeff Hinks were thrown into an uncertain world.

The latest Bugaboo collections: cool chevron and runner prams

Bugaboo sure likes to keep things fresh, and with the Australian spring/summer season coming up, there are two new Bugaboo pram releases.

Making room for two in the bed

Mum's room or their own room? Cot or bassinets? Deciding where twins will sleep can be tricky.

 

FREE TICKET

See Hi-5 LIVE in Sydney!

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.