Jump to content

Why don't school development days occur during school holidays?
One for the teachers


  • Please log in to reply
133 replies to this topic

#1 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

Genuine curiosity, why don't school development days occur during the school holidays when the students aren't attending anyway?

#2 toosenuf

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE (YodaTheWrinkledOne @ 13/02/2013, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Genuine curiosity, why don't school development days occur during the school holidays when the students aren't attending anyway?



i have wondered about this too original.gif

#3 PrincessPeach

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

Public or Private School?

Pupil Free Days always used to be used for this sort of thing.

#4 Feraldadathome

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

Because government's haven't offered sufficient incentive to encourage teachers to attend work on their days of non-attendance. In NSW, agreement to individual, designated shcool development days was a big cost saving.

(in NSW at least, teachers get 4 week's annual leave, with the rest of the school holidays covered by official non-attendance. The annual salary accounts for that period of non-attendance)

#5 Heather11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays.  Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.

#6 liveworkplay

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

They do as well in some schools. Teachers are contracted to do a certain number of days per year (as well as a certain number of face to face teaching time). How the school organises that is up to their relevant governing bodies.

#7 somila

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

And there are so many contract staff these days. A couple of teachers in my staff room were "sacked" a week before the end of school last year, and their contracts were renewed in January.

They have been at the school for 3 or 4 years at least, and are both working as co-ordinators as well as classroom teachers and have significant extra-curricular involvement.

I'm assuming it's all about the money that the government saves over the summer holidays, but ...

Seriously, just give these people permanent employment!!!

Rant over.

#8 Lyra

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Heather11 @ 13/02/2013, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays.  Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.



This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.

#9 FeralRebelWClaws

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

I teach in the ACT (I've taught both College and High School) and ours are all in stand down.

This year school went back Feb 4th and teachers were required to be at PD on Jan 30th to Feb 1st. On the odd occasion where there aren't enough days at the beginning of the year then they will do another one in the April stand down. Like the year that easter was the last weekend of term and then they put a PD day on the Tuesday, which is awesome if your partner isn't a teacher and you would have liked to have had a holiday using the 4 days of Easter. Mind you I rarely have time to have a "holiday."

Edited by PussyDids, 13 February 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#10 Bam1

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 13/02/2013, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't occur during holidays because teachers are people too and need time off  rant.gif Many teachers use the school holidays to spend time with their children as well as do normal school work, I am sure they'd love to do extra work as well during their time off  rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif


But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc

Fortunately other PPs have put more logical reasons why they can't be taken during the school holidays.

#11 Yogurtbliss

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

I knew eventually this would come down to the ten weeks holidays! In reality, teachers are paid for 6 hours work a day (in Queensland- yep that's on our pay slips!) despite being at work for about 8 hours to complete the school day. Work done at home, parent teacher evenings, camps etc do not attract any further pay. Oh and the holidays are at a fixed time every year which can be tough if you need to go away for a wedding etc, you can't take it out of your annual leave, you usually just can't go.

This said, it is a rewarding career, and the holidays certainly make it easier to catch up on planning and marking when required, as well as to reenergise for another great term!

From an administration point of view, there are limited providers of quality professional development, if we limited the times available, the development may not necessarily be quality.

Finally, teachers are required to do 30 hours professional development annually to maintain their accreditation (also Queensland) so it is reasonable that at least some of these hours occur during term time, or I think we would see even more teachers leaving the profession due to burn out!


#12 FluffyOscar

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Jbonnett @ 13/02/2013, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finally, teachers are required to do 30 hours professional development annually to maintain their accreditation (also Queensland) so it is reasonable that at least some of these hours occur during term time, or I think we would see even more teachers leaving the profession due to burn out!

That's 4.2 days.

Or 2.1 days in the Term 1 holidays, and 2.1 days in the Term 2 holidays, which are agreed as being non-attending work days.

So that's basically one day a week during the Term 2 and 3 breaks that could be spent doing your PD, given that you're working anyway  shrug.gif

Do you have to personally pay for your PD, or does the school cover it?

#13 José

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

I find it hard to believe that this is a serious question. I used to work in retail where we had product training sessions but you werent expected to attend if you were on holidays.  I have also worked in tourism where we had training sessions but again those on leave were not expected to attend.  Not sure why teachers would be different?

#14 Yogurtbliss

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

Some the school will cover, some you end up paying for yourself, which can be claimed on tax.

Most (all I have ever been to!) are run during school hours, minus breaks, so you only end up with 5 hours per day, not sure if that is school or presenter preference though!



#15 KT1978

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE
And there are so many contract staff these days. A couple of teachers in my staff room were "sacked" a week before the end of school last year, and their contracts were renewed in January.

They have been at the school for 3 or 4 years at least, and are both working as co-ordinators as well as classroom teachers and have significant extra-curricular involvement.

I'm assuming it's all about the money that the government saves over the summer holidays, but ...


QUOTE
One of the reasons I can gather is that contract staff don't get paid for holidays. Therefore they will be not be getting paid while doing the PD.


I don't understand how they are saving money by "sacking" people when they aren't paid in holidays to start with anyway.

Shouldn't contract workers be on a higher rate to account for annual leave etc?



#16 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (PrincessPeach @ 13/02/2013, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Public or Private School?

Pupil Free Days always used to be used for this sort of thing.

Does it matter?

I figured it's called "Pupil Free Days" for the students and parents sake, but the teachers/staff realise it's for their own planning/development etc.

QUOTE (Lyra @ 13/02/2013, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.

that's bad planning.  sad.gif

QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 13/02/2013, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't occur during holidays because teachers are people too and need time off  rant.gif Many teachers use the school holidays to spend time with their children as well as do normal school work, I am sure they'd love to do extra work as well during their time off  rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif rant.gif

Okay, you don't have to rant.  I'm trying to understand this.  The average punter has no idea about the working arrangements for teachers.  I'm not trying to be deliberately inflammatory, I'm trying to understand why it is so.  

Other jobs/professions have 4 weeks of annual leave (usually) to have some time off and spend time with their family.  Given that there is around 10 weeks of school holidays when students do not attend, I presume that for most teacher, the 10 weeks of student non-attendance includes standard 4 weeks annual leave, leaving 6 weeks of school holidays where teachers/staff do not go into the "office", so to speak.  I was just wondering why staff development and training can't be done during this student non-attendence time.

And teachers are not the only profession to do longer hours than required contact/office hours.  My sympathy on that score is not high.  Yes, it's intense during school term, but for many teachers they get a good break every three months or so.

QUOTE (Bam1 @ 13/02/2013, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc

This is what I was trying to ask.  Thank you.

QUOTE
This year school went back Feb 4th and teachers were required to be at PD on Jan 30th to Feb 1st. On the odd occasion where there aren't enough days at the beginning of the year then they will do another one in the April stand down.

Genuinely curious, why wouldn't there be enough days in January?


QUOTE ( @ 13/02/2013, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find it hard to believe that this is a serious question. I used to work in retail where we had product training sessions but you werent expected to attend if you were on holidays.  I have also worked in tourism where we had training sessions but again those on leave were not expected to attend.  Not sure why teachers would be different?

I'm not expected to attend training on my holidays.  Mind you, I don't have 6 weeks a year when I have no client/office contact.

I'm confused - do permanent teachers get paid for 40 weeks of work, spread over 52 weeks?  Or do permanent teachers get paid for 48 weeks, spread over 52 weeks? (second option is what happens with most people - 48 weeks of work + 4 weeks of annual leave = 52 weeks).

I have been a contract teacher/lecturer (university), so I completely get that as a contract employee, you are only paid for the term of teaching, not for time outside of the teaching term. Higher rate of pay but the pay has to last for the periods of time when you are not teaching (which is painful over Xmas).  Mind you, even as a contract employee, if I was expected to undertake training, I was paid for this, and it occurred outside of my face-to-face teaching timetable.  They didn't expect me to not teach for a few days during semester when students were waiting, training usually occurred on a non-teaching day or during the evenings.

Sorry, my question was not meant to inflame.  But I don't really know what the work/pay arrangements are for teachers, hence my curiosity about why this happens.

Edited by YodaTheWrinkledOne, 13 February 2013 - 01:04 PM.


#17 FeralRebelWClaws

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (Bam1 @ 13/02/2013, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But aren't all employees people too and need time off? The question is raised because despite at least 10 weeks of school holidays, teachers still need to take school development days on teaching days. Most employees only have 4 weeks off and also love to spend time with children, with friends etc etc


If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their leave periods.

The more that is asked of teachers, with no compensation, the lower quality of graduate teaching attracts.

Honestly, I tend to spend the first week of my stand down catching up on sleep. Teaching is incredibly draining and I teach fantastic mature kids who are 16-18 (I have 1 class with students with special needs). I would imagine it is worse for those teaching 5 year olds!

I get really tired of feeling as though I have to justify my salary, my holidays, my work hours etc to society. TBH it's the worse part of the job. No one feels compelled to have opinions on the conditions of doctors, or swimming teachers or dance coaches or any other person that comes in regular contact with children.

#18 Heather11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Lyra @ 13/02/2013, 11:00 AM)
This is and also because some contract teachers might not even know what school they have been assigned to until the first day of term or even the first week.
that's bad planning.


This can be due also to a sudden influx of enrollments over the summer holidays.  At a public school you can rock up on the first day and enrol.  This may mean they have to add an extra class and employee another staff member.

#19 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I get really tired of feeling as though I have to justify my salary, my holidays, my work hours etc to society. TBH it's the worse part of the job. No one feels compelled to have opinions on the conditions of doctors, or swimming teachers or dance coaches or any other person that comes in regular contact with children.

Sorry.  It's DD's first year and so it's the first time I've had to grapple with the whole student-free day thing on top of school holidays.  When you only have 4 weeks of annual leave and no back-up family/support, it can be a big issue as to how to find care for your kids on these extra student-free days.

I think teachers are great.  All the teachers I know put a lot of effort into their teaching, care about their students and have more patience/stamina than I would have with a classroom of kids.  My question was not meant as a criticism, but more a genuine curiosity about how this came to pass.

Edited by YodaTheWrinkledOne, 13 February 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#20 niggles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

I work with teachers, and we often have them coming in on their school holidays to plan and arrange resources with us. Some also attend professional development sessions with us in their own holiday time.

Mandated professional development arranged by the school has to be done in term time because at other times the teachers are on holidays and their time is their own. Just like any other profession.

#21 farfaraway

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thank you PussyDids for articulating what my seething brain could not. Well said.  cclap.gif

#22 pitzinoodles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their


I really don't understand this. Can you spell it out for me please.

#23 Milly Molly Mandy

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

Seriously OP? Because it is their holidays! As to how many weeks holidays they have it doesn't really matter. The time you think they should be training is part of their agreed holidays.

I guess thd alternative is to not give them any training time at all. Let's see how that works.

Teachers you rock!!! You do a great job teaching our kids and helping them grow into the adults they will become. All of this done with a smile on your face despite the b**chy misinformed parents (not directed at anyone here) you have to deal with.

Enjoy your well deserved holidays.

#24 SarahBelle48

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (PussyDids @ 13/02/2013, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were a typical APS employee, for the hours I work I would end up with more than 12 weeks off due to time in lieu. I don't earn more... I am on the equivalent APS scale. APS employees would not be expected to do training in their leave periods.

But those 12 weeks would be covered by the "official non-attendance periods" that PPs mentioned, wouldn't they? As in over the 52 weeks, the total number of hours worked would probably balance out. This is a genuine question btw, I'm not having a go at you or anything.

Also rather than starting another thread, can I just use this thread to clarify something in regards to teachers and leave. When its said that they have 4 weeks annual leave, is this leave absorbed by the school holiday periods or in addition to? As incould you use that 4 weeks leave during school terms? Its just that I had a family member who is a teacher and she was always going off on 2-3 week long holidays during school terms and we always wondered how she got the leave to do that.

#25 pitzinoodles

Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Milly Molly Mandy @ 13/02/2013, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seriously OP? Because it is their holidays! As to how many weeks holidays they have it doesn't really matter. The time you think they should be training is part of their agreed holidays.


So are teachers only paid for 42weeks/yr?

I am genuinely trying to get my head around the whole thing.

Edited to fix up number of weeks.

Edited by pitzinoodles, 13 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Why Tracey Spicer has given up make-up

"After 30 years on television, I had become what I despised: a painted doll who spent an hour a day and close to $200 a week putting on a mask."

Empowering bikini photo of 46-year-old mum goes viral

When a group of teenagers made rude remarks about her body as she walked past them in a bikini at the local beach, Julie Cross refused to cover up.

Devastated widow discovers she's pregnant the day before husband's funeral

They had been trying to conceive a baby for seven years. Tragically Kristy Kirchner found out she was pregnant the day before her husband Royce's funeral.

Gabriella Goat sues Peppa Pig

Every toddler's favourite television pig is being sued by an Italian woman who shares a name with a Peppa Pig character.

Meet the Mpregs, the male pregnancy enthusiasts

"Men can't have babies - that's something only women can do! But our community is full of like-minded people who wish otherwise."

Your new motherhood survival kit

Forget about the bright, pretty baby things - while you're in survival mode, all you'll need are the essentials.

More than 100,000 cars recalled globally after death of pregnant woman

The announcement of a mass recall comes as Malaysian police investigate the death of pregnant woman in July.

Win a family pass to Disney Live!

We have 4 family passes to give away to see Disney Live! presents Three Classic Fairy Tales, touring Australia this December/January.

I had a 'good baby' but still suffered from postnatal depression

I had a much wanted precious baby girl, a 'good baby' who slept well, self settled and was mostly content. It just seemed implausible to think I could succumb to depression.

There's no need to eclipse a babymoon

As long as pregnant women do their research, travelling during pregnancy can be done safely.

Mum and daughter have babies on same day

"It's not really something you ever want or think could happen. To have my mum going through it with me is probably the most special, amazing thing ever.”

Our baby's reflux caused the longest endurance test of our lives

I'm glad she wasn't my first child, or I would have thought that this was normal.

Win one of 5 Little Tikes Cozy Coupe Sport

Australia?s No 1 selling car is now available in a Sports model and we have 5 to give away to some lucky Essential Baby families.

The podcast that reminds mums they are not alone

A mum's complicated, gruelling labour gave birth to two lovely beings: her daughter and her delightful podcast, The Longest Shortest Time.

Is it too late to change my midwife?

My wife is nine months pregnant and we are planning a home birth - but we've had late problems with our midwife team.

The Very Hungover Caterpillar: a parody many can relate to

A new book released this month will be sure to have parents nodding and giggling in recognition the world over.

Babywearers unite against misinformation

Everyone has heard of people power, but what about passionate babywearing power?

Reliving the birth experience

When people ask about how my labour went, I usually respond: "Good, I think? Four hours long, and yeah it hurt, but I dunno, it's labour, it's giving birth, it's painful... but I guess it was good? As good as good gets?"

Literary baby name inspiration

From Harry Potter to Shakespeare and everything in between, we've scoured the library shelves for literary baby name inspiration.

Preparing your child to attend a sibling's birth

Thinking about having your kids at the birth of your baby? Here are some things to consider.

Counselling helps mum deal with triplets' early birth

When Kimberlee King's waters broke nine weeks before her triplets were due, she went into autopilot as she packed her hospital bag.

The women balancing babies with new businesses

Motherhood teaches us that we can be more tolerant, patient, and loving than we ever thought possible - and can also show us that we're innovative, creative and entrepreneurial, too.

It's true, kids grow up overnight

A dad ponders how his toddler daughter can change so much in just one 24 hour period.

Father sings to dying son days after losing wife

A heartbreaking video shows a new dad singing 'Blackbird' to his dying son just days after losing his wife.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Win one of 5 Little Tikes Cozy Coupe Sport

Australia?s No 1 selling car is now available in a Sports model and we have 5 to give away to some lucky Essential Baby families.

Join PADDINGTON on the red carpet!

To celebrate the release of PADDINGTON, we are giving five lucky winners the chance to win a family pass to the exclusive Australian Premiere in Sydney on December 7!

Knowing you are one of the lucky ones

I am secure, confident and strong, but the responsibility of protecting my children can almost bring me undone.

Why I am so emotional now I have kids?

There are so many ways in which parenthood changes us as women, but one of the most noticeable, for me, has been the changing state of my emotions.

Baby survives despite sharing womb with 'foreign body'

Baby Maia was conceived against the odds, only to find she was sharing a womb with an ominous "foreign body".

Video: Baby shows dog how to jump - or vice versa

They say dog is man's best friend, but this playful pooch seems to have chosen a jumping baby as her number one buddy.

10 ways to soothe a crying baby

New paernts can get frustrated when their newborn gets fussy and can't settle down. When you're feeling overwhelmed, try some of these simple tips to help soothe your baby.

20 baby names that are becoming more popular every year

The data-lovers at nameberry.com have been at it again – this time, they’ve discovered the names that are continually rising up the ranks, ready to take out some top spots in the next few years.

10 great meals to make for new parents

Ideally, you want to give food that isn’t expensive to make, isn't too difficult to create, and freezes well; stews, bakes, soups and pasta sauces are perfect.

'It's not you, it's me': Boston bombing survivor mum to have leg amputated

Rebekah DiMartino is going through a break-up. She even wrote a farewell love letter. But it's not to her husband.

What it's like to go through early menopause

In a cruel twist, Carla had been breastfeeding and perimenopausal at the same time. But she's far from the only one to go through menopause early.

Restaurant served alcohol to two-year-old

Busy restaurants can be forgiven for getting food and drink orders mixed up from time to time, but not when the confusion leads to a two-year-old being served an alcoholic cocktail instead of the child-friendly beverage they ordered.

Julia Morris tells of miscarriage on a flight

Julia Morris has spoken about the devastation of suffering a miscarriage while on an international flight.

Woman's survival after birth 'a story of two miracles'

A US mother is home and tending to her new baby less than a month after surviving without a pulse for 45 minutes.

Eating ice may give mental boost to the iron deficient: study

A new study proposes that, like a strong cup of coffee, ice may give those with insufficient iron a much-needed mental boost.

Tiny lives in caring hands: Thank U NICU Day

Each year in Australia, over 40,000 newborns need the help of a special care nursery or neonatal intensive care unit. One day a year, the staff are honoured by the parents they help through those dark days.

I paid $50,000 to have a girl

This time my husband and I hadn't taken any chances. We had paid $50,000 and travelled 13,000 kilometres to make sure the baby growing inside me was female.

Weird pregnancy products

Some pregnancy products come to market and are just awesome. Others just leave you scratching your head.

Dear firstborn, I'm sorry

Being a first-time mum is tough for so many reasons – particularly because you really have no idea what you're doing.

A trace of sesame could kill my son

Helen Richardson son's had two anaphylactic reactions in a month. It's traumatic for everyone.

When you know before the test says yes

It wasn't a pregnancy test or missed period that told me I was pregnant with my second baby; it was too early for those things. A doner kebab told me I was going to be a mum again.

What not to do when your partner is in labour

Robbie Williams stole the show during his wife Ayda's labour, pretty much demonstrating everything on the "what not to do when your partner is in labour" list.

Best maternity swimwear and beach cover-ups

Thinking about a tropical babymoon but have nothing to wear? Here are some great swimwear and beach cover-up options for mums-to-be.

Mark Latham, you have no idea

Parents who treat their depression are "cowardly", feminists are baby haters with a "psychoneurotic disorder". Really, Mark?

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.