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What would you do ?
Very very long. **Mention of sexual abuse


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#1 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

My ex and his 'fiancee' are apparently getting married next month and DD tells me that they want her to attend. Under normal circumstances, this would be a no brainer, right ?

Well, these aren't at all 'normal circumstances'. Rather than go into a REALLY REALLY long, involved story
I'll attempt to give some of the backstory in point form, easier for all concerned.
It's still long though, sorry about that.


Ex & fiancee have been together for around 5 or so years. She has 2 kids, they have 1 together and DD. Fiancee and DD DO NOT get along at all, to the point where DD is purposely made to feel like an outcast. There is a lot of jealousy as far as DD is concerned as DD is very close to ex's parents, she has spent a significant amount of time with them since birth and they are rather wealthy. Fiancee percieves DD as 'The golden grandchild.'
Ex's parents do little to discourage this. DD is everything to them.
The child they have together is much, much younger than DD and hasn't yet had the same opportunities.
This has caused many issues in their relationship, lots of breaking up and getting back together, they are the couple that cried 'break up'. Each time, the blame is placed soley on DD by the fiancee an she isn't backward in telling DD it's 'her fault'.

Both Ex & Fiancee seem to enjoy banding together to create drama. They had 1 of many falling outs with ex's parents last year, they didn't get their way on some trivial matter so they thought they would ring me and advise me that they believed DD was being sexually abused by her grandfather. A complete, out of thin air fabrication.
I knew it was utter rubbish but it broke my heart.
This was an all new low, even for them. Their 'idea' of 'sexual abuse' was perfectly innocent things like holding hands at the shops, sleeping in the same bed as both grandparents, helping her get dressed, ect all twisted to sound sinister. I do all of the above with DD too and noone has ever questioned it.
Long story short, upon being accused and questioned, ex's dad commited suicide.
Before anyone says it was an admission of guilt, it wasn't. He was a wonderful man and grandad, what noone knew was that he was made redundant from his job and was at the centre of an ugly family dispute over an inhertiance. He was literally heartbroken.
DD was his pride and joy. His note simply said "Look after DD."
My only comfort is that i had the opportunity to tell him i didn't believe the lies and that i thought he was an amazing man & a wonderful grandad before he died.

Not only does DD lose her favorite person in the world because of an enormous lie, she suddenly has to deal with police, child protection and has undergone an internal examination. Her dad and his fiancee didn't bat an eyelid that they threw DD under the bus in some sort of sick, twisted power play in a family dispute.
It was left to DF and I to explain that grandad had died. It was up to us to pick up our broken child and attempt to put her back together.

Ex didn't even ask how DD was. He heard that I had DD's dog (it lives with her grandparents) Ex's mum was in no state to care for it so I did. I got a torrent of abuse for that and he sent relatives to collect the dog.
Didn't speak to DD at the funeral because she was flanked by my dad and DF.

Ex and fiancee came into a great deal of money from his fathers estate. Enough to buy a farm, new cars and enough for them to quit work for the foreseeable future.
They then start making noises about DD going to live with them !?
Promises of the horses and motorbikes she's always wanted were made.
They advised DD that she was old enough to choose where she wanted to live (she was 10) So naturally DD only saw promises of material things, the completely evil lies and trauma she endured seemed to have been forgotten.
In buying this fancy new farm, DD wasn't factored in at all. When she visited she didn't have her own room. She was told that if she moved in, they would buy a futon for the loungeroom. (Thankfully, since then she's abandoned the idea of moving in with them.)

DD advised her dad and fiancee that she wanted to stay here with us, at her current school.
Ex told her he would respect her choice but apparently that only applied if she chose him.
She called him to talk about it and he hung up on her. They then BOTH started texting DD and I messages of abuse. They would ring and re ring our phones over and over til our batteries went flat. 2 grown adults were doing this to an 10/11 year old child.
I took her phone (that they had purchased) apart piece by piece and threw it in the bin.
I changed my number again. I have 3 times in the past because of them.
(we would arrange access through his mother and it was through her that they kept obtaining my new numbers)

The farm is over 3 hours away from where we currently live. I was given 1 day notice that he was moving and was 'expected' to do 6 hour round trips to either pick up or drop off every weekend. I refused. I will do no such thing on 1 day notice. It wasn't my decision to move, not my problem.

Court orders dictate that he is to have DD for half the school holidays. DF and i went interstate together at this time as DD was with her dad. He lasted 6 days.
He rang my old number demanding that i collect DD, I spoke to DD who was sobbing on the phone, she was sick. He refused to pay for her to see a Dr (no bulk billing up there)
He knew very well that i was interstate, apparently that wasn't his problem and refused for anyone else (like my parents an hour away) to collect her on my behalf.
DF and a friend on holidays with us, drove SEVEN hours to collect her. We were given a false address.
Ex's now widowed mother REFUSED to supply me with the real address despite DD being in distress. Ex and fiancee spent that day playing the same old abusive text games on my old number.
DF enlisted the help of a police officer in the town and thankfully, he was kind enough to help and DD was eventually handed over to DF.

What DF saw nearly reduced him to tears. DD was a mess. she was dressed in a tracksuit on a 45 degree day, DF suggested she take a few layers off, she couldn't. it was literally a jumper and pants belonging to one of the other kids. No bra, no knickers, no tee shirt.
She hadn't bathed at all in the time she was gone. DF drove her straight to the public pool, got her some toiletries and paid for her to have a shower and get cleaned up before the long trip back. He binned the clothes and bought her a fresh set. Upon DF brushing her hair, he saw her head was crawling with lice. No eggs, just adult lice. (ex's kids are the ones always being sent home from school for sharing their lice around the school)
No eggs made me think that she's shared a bed with a sibling since not having one of her own.

THEN, it was straight to a Dr. DD was COVERED head to toe in prickly heat rash and flea bites. She's allergic to flea bites so they were nasty, itchy, red welts that lasted for around 2 weeks. She couldn't talk or swallow without pain, she had tonsilitis and a chest infection.

That was it, court orders be damned. I stopped access, they didn't want to disclose their real address for whatever reason and I was not putting DD through a repeat performance of any of that. I told DD unless she specifically asks to go, I'm not forcing her.
She hasn't asked, It's been a few months now.
They can't contact me or DD directly at all, not even ex's mother has my number but they have DF's. They just aren't brave enough to try their BS with him.

Last night ex's mother asked to take DD for tea at McDonalds close by. I allowed her to go and she was returned shortly afterwards with no fuss. However, i learned that his mother orchastrated a phone call while they were there to ex and made DD talk to him.
Ex told DD about the wedding and asked for her dress measurements ect assuming that she'll be there.

If you made it this far, congratulations and thank you. But here lies my issue, Ex has made it out to sound like some wonderful day fit for a princess so typically, she wants to go.
I don't trust any of them as far as i could throw them and have no desire for her to witness that unholy union. The biggest issue of all is that i won't know exactly where she is.
I flatly refuse to place her in such a position and i no longer trust ex's mother to do what is right for DD. (previously, i would have trusted her accompany/care for DD)

What would you do ?

#2 unicorn

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

There is no way I would let her go unaccompanied by someone you trust. That would be the last time ex Mil seen her too. I was the bad guy on many occasions for not letting the kids go to their fathers due to his instability. They now understand and accept I was acting in their best interests.

#3 lamarque

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

OP, how utterly awful for you.   sad.gif

Did your ex-FIL commit suicide over this?  I'm gobsmacked at your ex's treatment of his family.

There is no way I would let her attend.  If she really wanted to go I would insist on going too and bring her home afterwards.   I would be reminding them of the state she was found in on her last visit.  No pretty dress can make that better.

Goodluck.

#4 Le-a

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

I would do my utmost to ensure my child NEVER has contact with these people again.

I don't now anything about the legalities etc. but surely with all youve said in your OP you would have a case in court to cease XH and Fiancés visitation? Or is it more complicated then that?

I'm sorry for the loss of your ExFIL. What a terrible, horrible thing to happen.

What a mess. Poor, poor girl.

#5 ~Jam~

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:40 AM

QUOTE (Rawr @ 13/02/2013, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OP, that is all really sad and so dreadful:(

In those circumstances, I wouldn't allow my child to go to the wedding. I'd also look into what I could do legally to prevent her from having anything to do with them, something which I rarely suggest to anyone.



Totally agree with Rawr.  Find out now what your legal options are for keeping her away.  

As for explaining to her why she can't (shouldn't?) go,  that is a lot harder.  A gentle talk about what happened last time,  and you are really worried the same thing will happen.  Would it be out of line to suggest to her that her Dad might not let her come home to you?  ( I ask because I have never been in this situation, and not sure where the line is in that type of conversation.)

I really hope you and your DD can get some peace from them.  So sorry about your poor Ex-FIL too sad.gif

#6 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE
Did your ex-FIL commit suicide over this? I'm gobsmacked at your ex's treatment of his family.
Yes, this and other things that have nothing to do with me & DD.
It makes me feel ill that he essentially killed his father and his mother treats him like he's the second coming of christ. It's strange but i suppose grief can make one do strange things.
His poor dad would be horrified to know that his hard earned assets went straight to the person he despises the most, the fiancee.

QUOTE
No pretty dress can make that better.
Precisely the point i tried to make when we briefly discussed it this morning. Part of me feels bad for my hand in making her the outcast yet again if i refuse to let her go. She doesn't see that i'm not being 'mean' i'm doing it because i care !


In the past 10+ years, i've never questioned the level of care ExMil has provided for DD. But since ExFil has died, i cant trust her mental health. I was nervous enough last night when she was gone for an hour for tea with Exmil, a few streets from home.
She's indulged in strange behaviour since ExFil has been gone. He hated tattoos, she now has tattoos, He hated smoking, she's recently started smoking..Aged in her late 50's Silly things that are really out of character.
I did explain before they left that ExMil is on very, very thin ice with me. One false move and i'll cancel her access to DD too.
Weekends and sleepovers are a thing of the past and she's been removed as a emergency contact at the school.
She got dinner with DD last night because DD absolutely begged to be allowed to go. sad.gif

If ExFil was alive, none of this would have even happened.
ExMil would have been the one urging me to stop the access between Ex and DD.
She also despised the fiancee and often claimed that she was 'in it for the money'. Now they are BFF's.

#7 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

QUOTE
Also, OP, I'd be very careful, because if they can do that to your ex's father, what could they accuse you and your partner of? I'd get in first, get the law on my side

They have accused me of plenty. I'm on a first name basis with child protection, It's all completely unfounded and very well documented to be utter bollocks. Even the police said it was all BS and i quote "This is not what an abused child looks like" when DD was happily singing and dancing at a police interview, charming the officers.
The police were not impressed at having their time wasted.

QUOTE
surely with all youve said in your OP you would have a case in court to cease XH and Fiancés visitation? Or is it more complicated then that?
I am DD's primary carer. I have full custody, he has minimal access (1/2 holidays, ect) If he saw he on weekends it was because i allowed it.
I'm not instigaing another sh*t fight in court. I'm simply keeping her at home. If he wants to go the legal route (which he won't) This will ALL come out and not work in his favour at all.

QUOTE
Is she still 10, OP, or is she older now?
she'll be 12 on her next birthday in a few months.



#8 PrincessPeach

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

Can you let her go to the ceremony so long as you attend as well?

That way she still gets to go, but you are supervising.

#9 JustBeige

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

There is No way in hell that I would let my child go and I have to agree with PP, there is no way I would let her go with her GM unsupervised any longer.

She is older now, so you can remind her of what happened last time and talk to her about her feelings last time (and ongoing).  Argh, she's 12 though.  Love that age *snort*   I would still say no though.

She does need lots and lots of reassurance that its absolutely not her, its them.  Lots of examples of other people they have hurt and lots of examples of other people who love her for who she is.  

Its unfortunate, but at this age they do need to know some people are self absorbed muntweasels and learn how to deal with that.

I would also (carefully) explain how grief can cause people to change a lifetime of habits and that we can still care about them, but its heathier for us to not see them very much at all.  ie: the grandmother.

I would also either be fully documenting and keeping copies of everything he says and does, so that if he ever decides to challenge for visitation you have a reason to show why you ahve refused  OR I would going back to get the orders changed to minimum supervised visitations.  

tbh, I would probably just keep refusing access until he gets bored and goes away, because once its not all about him anymore, he sounds like he will.


i'm so sorry this has happened to you and your DD


ETA; I realised I advised what you are already doing.

Edited by JustBeige, 13 February 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#10 Banana Pancakes

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

Im sorry but I think you are crazy to be even considering it. Tell your dd that you had a surprise weekend away planned and whisk her away and have the best weekend ever.

You are her Mother and at 12 you still need to protect her from crazies like your ex. You know deep down that she would have a crap time so dont let her be in that situation.

You really need to cut all contact with the whole family and try and give your dd has much security as you can.

#11 amabanana

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

How sad.  I wouldn't let her go without a chaperone, chosen by you.  Better still, I would do something special in lieu of that fact that she won't be going.  Buy a new dress and pretties and play ladies or something.  Your poor DD.

#12 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE
Can you let her go to the ceremony so long as you attend as well?

That way she still gets to go, but you are supervising.


OH HELL NO. I didn't even attend ExFil's funeral. DF took DD for me.
DF is an absolute champion and would do anything for DD and I, he's proved that countless times but this is too much to ask of him so I wont.



QUOTE
Im sorry but I think you are crazy to be even considering it. Tell your dd that you had a surprise weekend away planned and whisk her away and have the best weekend ever.

You are her Mother and at 12 you still need to protect her from crazies like your ex. You know deep down that she would have a crap time so dont let her be in that situation.

You really need to cut all contact with the whole family and try and give your dd has much security as you can.


I'm not considering allowing her to go, Sorry, should have made that a bit clearer. I am firmly in the OH HELL NO camp. Just wanted some outside perspective.
Apart from that, i agree with you completely, thanks for your reply original.gif We have cut *most* contact, apart from tea last night which was the first time DD has seen Exmil in over 6 weeks. ExMil used to have DD most weekends and 1 night during the week (to put it in perspective) Now it's 1 hour in 6 weeks.


ETA: And yes, we've decided to head interstate that weekend (just need to find out which weekend it is exactly, just incase any of them decide to stop past our house looking for DD)

Edited by Tea-Rex, 13 February 2013 - 10:33 AM.


#13 charlie-lori

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

What an awful, awful situation. These are the types of games that can be played after family break ups and I am so sorry to hear about you, your DD and DF having to endure this. I have been through a very similar type of game with my children. Not the suicide part, but the moving away, nastiness and wedding plans part sound eerily familiar. Plus jealousy on the part of the new fiance.

The best thing you can do is remove your daughter from the situation. She is a pawn in their game and this drama is binding them together. It sounds like your daughter is the common enemy and is being used by fiance as part of some sick drama against her partner.

Some people feed off this self created emotional turmoil. Please shield your poor daughter from this garbage otherwise it will really create future issues within herself. Equip her with the self esteem she deserves. Tell her what they have done when she is sick is not okay and that you want her to go talk to a helpul person ie. a psych about what she is feeling.

Edited by Omega_particle, 13 February 2013 - 10:35 AM.


#14 Banana Pancakes

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for clearing that up Op. I definitely think you are in the right and kudos to you for standing up for your dd's rights.

Off topic, but please dont forget to look after yourself as well. You sound as though you really miss the relationship you and your dd had with your in-laws. It must of broken your heart to say goodbye to your fil, Im really sorry for your loss  sad.gif

#15 Cirrus

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

Hi There,
What a horrible situation. How lucky she is to have you as a mum protecting her from manipulation.
Just a small idea - to reduce any feeling she has of letting them down/being caught between them - could you give her a small amount of money and encourage her to hand-make a card to send to them on their wedding day?
It might be nice to allow her, within your relationship with her, to acknowledge her positive feelings towards them through some small token of a task like this.
Even if they have a childish response to her absence, she will be able to reflect on it in future years without blaming herself for snubbing them.

C

#16 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE
Some people feed off this self created emotional turmoil. Please shield your poor daughter from this garbage. Equip her with the self esteem she deserves. Tell her what they have done when she is sick is not okay and that you want her to go talk to a helpul person ie. a psych about what she is feeling.

DD has special needs (didn't mention it earlier because i didn't feel it was relevant) And she does see a psych for behavioural issues.
The psych is well versed in the Ex, fiancee and their drama.
Her school is also very understanding, she has a welfare coordinator that she trusts and they often chat about DD's headspace.

In the time she hasn't seen her dad she has turned a bit of a corner on her own. For example she says things like "Thanks DF, you do such nice things for me like fix my bike and help me with my home work.. the things proper dads are supposed to do,"
"Thanks for paying my school fees DF, my dad probably wouldn't have"... i *think* she's making these connections on her own
but was lured in by the promise of a pretty dress last night.

Her behaviour and health issues have been on the improve since we've kept her at home. We are really impressed by her new found, more positive and more responsible attitude. Sure, things are still pretty grim and plenty of 'i miss grandad' emotional outbursts, but there has been improvement.

#17 For Fox Sake

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE
Off topic, but please dont forget to look after yourself as well. You sound as though you really miss the relationship you and your dd had with your in-laws. It must of broken your heart to say goodbye to your fil, Im really sorry for your loss


I do miss the relationship. In all those years we never had a cross word to say to each other. They were so very good to me and DD when we were alone, prior to DF. They were accepting and lovely to him when he eventually came along. They attended our engagement party and had a brilliant time and insisted that my DS call them 'nanna' and 'grandad' too, they included him in xmas gifts, remembered his birthday ect. Sweet, kind gestures that they didn't have to do. They insisted on helping financially when they knew ex was mucking me around with child support, paid for DD's extra curricular activities just because they wanted the best for her.
Best of all, ExFil always apologized for his son when he was making my life a misery.


QUOTE
Just a small idea - to reduce any feeling she has of letting them down/being caught between them - could you give her a small amount of money and encourage her to hand-make a card to send to them on their wedding day?
It might be nice to allow her, within your relationship with her, to acknowledge her positive feelings towards them through some small token of a task like this.
Even if they have a childish response to her absence, she will be able to reflect on it in future years without blaming herself for snubbing them.


What an awesome idea. Thank you original.gif I won't put money in it as they are recreational drug users but a small nomination store specific gift card will do the trick, I'll run the idea by DD, i'm sure she'll go for it and ExMil can deliver it.



#18 Cirrus

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

Great! I have done similar with my step-daughter as a way of sharing something when participating IRL would be too logistically(or emotionally) complicated.
I meant money for materials to make the card, but it sounds like she'll be happy to be sending a gift if you're offering to fund it original.gif
Have a great interstate break, whenever that may be original.gif

#19 cattivo lupo

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

I felt so sad reading all that OP, such a huge burden for a young girl, and utterly gut wrenching for you to have to deal with.  I just wanted to cry for you. My own daughter is a similar age and the thought of her going through all that breaks my heart, and that's just in the thinking of it  sad.gif .

The interstate trip sounds awesome, and the card is a great idea.  Glad your DF sounds like a great bloke, you both deserve someone who cares for you.

Take care.

#20 *Lib*

Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:08 PM

Poor kid sad.gif I'd not let her go. I'd have a heart to heart with her, no viciousness, but an understanding conversation. No he said she said, she's old enough at 12 to understand reasoning.




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