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cut the age pension?


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#1 Feralishous

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

a comment on social media got me thinking.
in response to cutting parenting payments and family tax, since having children is a choice, a person posted : 'by the same logic we should cut the age pension (not disability or carers) as its a choice to retire, people should save enough money before they chose to retire, so that they aren't a drain on society'
I thought that it was a really good point. If having children is a choice, and something that shouldn't be supported by our tax dollars, is retirement also a choice that should be self funded?
after all, children are future tax payers, whereas retirees won't be contributing to govt funds again.

(disclaimer: I'm a commie and don't support any cuts to social welfare)

#2 cira

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

Has the magical elixir of youth been found?

Aged people will always reach a point when they are unable to work.

#3 Starrydawn

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:41 PM

Ridiculous and anyone who thinks it is a good idea is a halfwit.

#4 TurtleTamer

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

No, it's not always a choice. Sometimes you just can't manage anymore when you get older without necessarily being 'disabled'.

And the reality is that as people get older it is increasingly difficult to find work.  If you're going to have a huge portion of older people on the dole you are going to face huge issues with housing and various other things.  As it is the pension is low, and they expect you to own a house by pension age.  Not everyone does and this is also going to get worse as the cost of living is forcing so many out of the housing market.  It would cost the government more to deal with the consequences of cutting it than it would to leave it there.

And I don't think it's fair that someone who was lucky enough to land a cushy high paying job can retire at 55 while the person who slaved it day in and day out has to work until he dies at 85.  Yeah this still happens but to a much smaller degree.

#5 Wigglemama

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

It's an awful idea. And if you came to visit any geriatric, medical or orthopaedic ward of any hospital, you would see why retiring as you get older is not always "a choice". We will get old too one day.

#6 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

I think it should just morph in to the disability pension.

To old and infirm to work?

Well it's a disability then.

However I know many fit and healthy 65 year old plus people who are very capable of working.

So why shouldn't they?

#7 Starrydawn

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it should just morph in to the disability pension.

To old and infirm to work?

Well it's a disability then.

However I know many fit and healthy 65 year old plus people who are very capable of working.

So why shouldn't they?



They can if they want. But  seriously you think all the elderly should be forced to keep working till they what die?

You are obviously young.



#8 FeralEsme

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

What a stupid idea.

Everyone gets to a point where they can no longer work.
People in low paid jobs can't simply 'save for their future.' All their money is tied up in, you know, living day to day.
These days the aged pension is often a supplement to people's compulsory superannuation, and there are many self-funded retirees out there already, but I would never, ever want to see the aged pension go. It is a safety net. It is also a freaking pittance and people struggle to survive on it, but if they didn't have that where would they be? Living on the street?

Short sighted and narrow minded and totally lacking in compassion.

It is a far cry from deciding to bring another life into the world and then expect someone else to pay for it, as opposed to getting to the end of your life and needing help (probably for most people after being a productive member of society).

#9 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:00 PM

I am 36, hardly young lol.

No modern medicine and technology has evolved so that many people can work to some capacity way pass the tradtional age of retirement.

So why shoudint they?

Age is not a disability! It's only a number.

If you have an age related illness then you will go on disability.
Simple as that.

#10 jojonbeanie

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it should just morph in to the disability pension.

To old and infirm to work?

Well it's a disability then.

However I know many fit and healthy 65 year old plus people who are very capable of working.

So why shouldn't they?


Too old and infirm for what kind of work? Digging ditches like my father did or sitting in an air-conditioned office at home talking to students via email like myself?

#11 jojonbeanie

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it should just morph in to the disability pension.

To old and infirm to work?

Well it's a disability then.

However I know many fit and healthy 65 year old plus people who are very capable of working.

So why shouldn't they?


Too old and infirm for what kind of work? Digging ditches like my father did or sitting in an air-conditioned office at home talking to students via email like myself?

#12 BadCat

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

My father didn't choose to retire.  He lost his livelihood when some moron ran a stop sign and totalled his truck leaving him with a half dozen broken ribs along with sundry other injuries.  He took long months to heal during which most of his customers were forced through necessity to seek someone else to fill the void.  As a consequence, not only did he lose his livelihood, his business lost most of it's value and sold for a pittance purely for the goodwill of the name.

He was able to work again after 8 months but would not have been able to do his old job.  And who was going to employ an unskilled guy in his mid 60s?  Nobody, that's who.

He worked long and hard in ordinary jobs to put food on our table but there was never much money to spare for savings.  There was no such thing as compulsory superannuation when he was young enough fo it to make a difference either.

There are many people out there with their own stories of bad luck, ill health, unfortunate investment, etc who rely on the age pension to keep them going.  To cut that pension would be a crime.

#13 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

Well the aging process is not just physical. Mental faculties will decline as well.
So if you can not physically work then a sedatary job is still an option.

Everyone ages differently and has different skills. Assessments done similar to getting the disability pension now would be needed to asses if a person is suitable for retirement on to a pension.

I really don't understand why it's such a shocking idea to everyone!

More than 50 percent of my parents friends are still working. Some in there 70s.

Edited by Oriental lily, 11 February 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#14 Feral Mozzie

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

Regardless of whether I agree with it or not, I think the reality is that the age pension won't exist in its current form when Gen X and Y hit retirement. Anyone not planning for that eventuality is going to struggle IMO.

#15 PrincessPeach

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE (Mozzie1 @ 11/02/2013, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Regardless of whether I agree with it or not, I think the reality is that the age pension won't exist in its current form when Gen X and Y hit retirement. Anyone not planning for that eventuality is going to struggle IMO.


I second this.

I've also heard this statement from a few too many people who work in various parts of the finance industry.

#16 Julie3Girls

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE
If you have an age related illness then you will go on disability.
Simple as that.

Old age doesn't mean you have to have an illness. The conditions to get onto disability are pretty strict these days, I doubt "old age" would get you on it.  

I'd much rather have the elderly get a pension, and free up jobs for younger unemployed people.

As it is, the age of retirement has increased in recent years. You have to older now to get access to your super than what you used to be.

#17 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

O huge manatee my dad has a very similar story to yours.

Difference however that the work accident happened when he was in his early 40s.

He has never worked again due to horrific spinal injuries and been on a disability pension since.

He thought it was little bit funny when last year he got a letter from centerlink saying if he wanted to swap to the age pension.

Which is basically identical.

Edited by Oriental lily, 11 February 2013 - 03:14 PM.


#18 FiveAus

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

The retirement age is no longer 65, and anyone born after about 1958 will find they have to be over 65 (depending on the year of birth) to qualify for the age pension.

No, the pension shouldn't be cut. It's an awful idea. But then maybe the person who suggested it would be happy to support their parents or grandparents (or in laws), when they are no longer capable of supporting themselves due to old age.
And have them move into their home, seeing as they'll no longer be able to afford the maintenance and upkeep of their own home.

#19 **BOOM**

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

what a load of.....

Some people have absolutely no idea.

#20 jojonbeanie

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well the aging process is not just physical. Mental faculties will decline as well.
So if you can not physically work then a sedatary job is still an option.

Everyone ages differently and has different skills. Assessments done similar to getting the disability pension now would be needed to asses if a person is suitable for retirement on to a pension.

I really don't understand why it's such a shocking idea to everyone!

More than 50 percent of my parents friends are still working. Some in there 70s.

It's not shocking to think that some people will work after the retirement age of 68. It's just impractical to think that all people will be able to. There is a whole world of things to consider like the availability of work, transport, housing and retraining.

The government is trying to encourage more people to work longer by having raised the retirement age and encouraging older people to manage their superannuation so that they work part time at the end of their career. But you are not going to get most people being able to work full time forever.



#21 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

Fiveaus then they will go on the disability pension!

No one suggested cutting pensions for anyone who could not physically or mentally work!

#22 FiveAus

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
O huge manatee my dad has a very similar story to yours.

Difference however that the work accident happened when he was in his early 40s.

He has never worked again due to horrific spinal injuries and been on a disability pension since.

He thought it was little bit funny when last year he got a letter from centerlink saying if he wanted to swap to the age pension.

Which is basically identical.



It's an identical amount of money per fortnight, but it's not an identical payment, and the eligibility criteria is very different. The aged pension has very different rules for assets, and if he has any investments, savings or super, he'd be silly not to explore moving onto the aged pension.

#23 Raisinette

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Ok so all these people continues working until they no longer can physically or mentally.

Where are all these jobs coming from?  Do we then just increase the amount of people on unemployment benefits.

Wow your idea sounds great.

#24 jojonbeanie

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 11/02/2013, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
O huge manatee my dad has a very similar story to yours.

Difference however that the work accident happened when he was in his early 40s.

He has never worked again due to horrific spinal injuries and been on a disability pension since.

He thought it was little bit funny when last year he got a letter from centerlink saying if he wanted to swap to the age pension.

Which is basically identical.

Why didn't your Dad get one of these sedentary jobs you seem to think are going to be the answer?

#25 Oriental lily

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Nah he has not been able to work for over 25 years.

All that went along time ago. As did my mums.




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