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How would you have handled this?
Managing 4.5 year old behaviour


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#1 Molondy

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

I am at a genuine loss and as a result am after genuine advice.

My son is 4.5 and has a pretty shocking temper. He gets it from me so I don't help matters but this afternoon something happened that turned absolutely and utterly pear shaped and I don't really know what I should have done differently.

Anyway Tom gets himself really over excited and has difficulty listening and doing what he is told in these moments. It is a constant challenge however on this particular occasion he simply decided he wanted to play downstairs. Our front yard is not fenced, my husband wasn't home and I was trying to sort out dinner.

I asked him to come upstairs. He refused. I told him to come upstairs. He got angry and screamed at me, including a swear word (starting with F). I kept calm and told him that if he wasn't upstairs by the time I counted to 3 he would miss out on television that evening (night time ritual - 30 mins of tv before bed). He came upstairs but after he got to the top he rushed at me, grabbed at me and really hurt me (grabbed my boob). That was two really bad things - swearing and violence.

In our house violence towards others results in time out. So I took him to time out. As I often do I tell him if he comes out of time out he loses temporary possession of his favorite toy (Woody) He spends some time in his room looking for Woody then leaves his room to try and hide him. I remove Woody from his possession and put him back in his room.

He then decides to find Buzz so Buzz can rescue Woody. He leaves again. I put him back in. He starts screaming.

He then leaves his room again and I put him back in again.

He stays in his room and starts bashing and thumping things. I judge he can't hurt himself as he isn't bashing his glass wardrobe doors and doesn't seem to be hitting anything with solid objects and resolve to wait until he calms down and then, give him his bloody 4 minute time out. Just as I am about to go and tell him time out doesn't start until he calms down I hear him leave the room. As I go to get him and look in the room and he has yanked out the blind in his bedroom.

Until this point I have been calm. No yelling, No swearing - simply trying to reinforce the disiplinary action I have deemed appropriate.

Of course on seeing the blind I completely lose it and everything goes pear shaped and I end up feeling like a worthless mother who is the worst possible role model.

How would you have managed this situation? Not just the end but the whole thing? - Time out just does not seem to work with this child - it just seems to escalate the problem but how else would you have managed the swearing/violence.

We do use star charts but that only works when kids are rational. by the time the swearing and violence starts he isn't generally rational anymore... I should also point out that he generally gets the most angry/upset at the THOUGHT of consequences. So he can be being mildy naughty and If I tell him what the consequences are if he doesn't stop THEN he goes off his brain - before the consequence even sets in!

I should also say that when he really really loses it I forget about consequences and keep him safe which usually means firm cuddles and quiet talking but that really didn't seem an option to me this afternoon.

(by the way I should clarify he isn't like this ALL the time. But it has been a challenging weekend)...

Thanks.

Edited by Molondy, 10 February 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#2 No girls here

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

My angry child is also called Tom.  

I'm not sure if this will work for everyone, but this is what seems to work for us.  I've found with him that dealing with it when he is angry only escalates things, and it seems to work better if I tell him he is doing the wrong thing and let him know we will discuss punishment later.  Then when he has calmed down we talk about how he did the wrong thing and what an appropriate punishment might be.

#3 JamJah

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

I wouldn't use his bedroom as the timeout area.  Is there anywhere else you can use that is really boring and has nothing around that he can get into mischief with?  The other reason for this being that I prefer to keep the timeout area separate from the sleeping/play area.

I hope that makes sense, I've had an ordinary day with my not-even-2-yr-old too.

Good luck! original.gif

#4 cinderellainsydney

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:54 PM

When we visited a child psych they recommended:
* stating to the child what is not OK ie to say the f word
* letting the child know what is an appropriate alternative: what you should have said is "I am not happy about this"
* time out in the toilet until they calm down or another most boring place of all. You must stand there and hold the door if necessary but do not engage in conversation. Even if it's half an hour the first time. (bedroom not recommended as has too many distractions)
* when they come out you must compliment them on regaining control and must have them join you in family activity/game/dinner back to normal but with added positive attention, active participation etc. It is not a good idea to remove currency fav objects as an additional punishment. The idea is for the child to learn self control through repetition of time-outs, each instance of time-out should be shorter in duration.
* adults should also time out when they are angry

This system worked very well for 5.5DD, but we do still get an  occasional loss of control.

#5 JamJah

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Rawr @ 10/02/2013, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My son went through that at that age. What helped:

- fish oil capsules. MAJOR help


Oh yes, I remember something about this years ago.  Can you please refresh my memory original.gif

#6 Mummy Em

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

I'd shift time out to a space where he can be easily contained and not much that he can damage. I hold the door too, if my dd won't stay put. I treat time out as a time to calm down, so I don't worry if dd is playing in there or if she has a toy. I'd probably drop the removal of Woody, as you have already give a consequence and taking Woody just seems to escalate the situation and give him a new thing to focus his anger on.

#7 Funwith3

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

Hands up who's buying fish oil tablets tomorrow??! (My hand is up).... I never knew this!

#8 RealityBites

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (Mummy Em @ 10/02/2013, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd shift time out to a space where he can be easily contained and not much that he can damage. I hold the door too, if my dd won't stay put. I treat time out as a time to calm down, so I don't worry if dd is playing in there or if she has a toy. I'd probably drop the removal of Woody, as you have already give a consequence and taking Woody just seems to escalate the situation and give him a new thing to focus his anger on.


+1

I have also found that not getting angry back seems to work with my DD almost-5. She can be a violent spitfire but seems to get over it quickly when met with calm firmness and then getting down to her level, talking nicely. My DH on the other hand gets exasperated with her behavior and she doesn't settle down.

#9 niggles

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

I'd cut out the chatter and cut straight to counting 1 2 3 when he didn't come upstairs. The more consistently you avoid explanation and bargaining at the time of the misbehaviour, the better it works. Also has the added bonus of helping you keep your cool if you don't engage in conversation. He's 4. He doesn't care how reasonable your request is but he'll care if he knows how swiftly, calmly and consistently you will reinforce your requests with counting and time out. And hopefully with time his tantrums about them will subside. In the meantime an alternative time out space sounds like a good idea.

Have you read 123 Magic recently? I re read bits and pieces regularly to keep fresh on the context that makes it work well and find it really helps my ability to be consistent about it. I keep it on my bedside table.

#10 Chocolate Addict

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

I agree with others, time out should not be in the bedroom or any other room with distractions.

I was wondering where he would pick up the swearing but by the sounds of it, he gets it from you. I don't think it is ever appropriate to swear in front of a child, never mind at them. It is not fair to tell a kid off for swearing by swearing. That is like smacking a child because they hit another child.





#11 Expelliarmus

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:21 PM

I too would choose a different time out spot.

I would cease removal of things - TV, toy etc. It usually serves only to reinforce the behaviour. I do this only when it is a logical consequence. ie. DD2 sent a nasty message to DD1 on her iPod the other day so I calmly informed her she was cyber bullying, told her to apologise and removed her iPod for the weekend - because if she's going to use it to cyber bully then she cannot have the device. TV time or a favourite toy is not related to what he's done wrong so it is not a logical consequence.

It would be logical if he spends so long following the instruction to come inside that dinner is delayed and now he doesn't have time to watch TV as you had to spend that time supervising him etc etc

Never ask.

Tell.

Stop saying please.

"Come inside now, thanks" isn't asking, the child can't answer no and you've already assumed they are doing it. They are usually more likely to comply. If you ask them "can you come inside please?" it's giving them the opportunity to refuse and then when you ask again or tell them they are going "What was the point of her bloody asking me, it's not a flipping question!!!"

So I would start with telling and cut out the asking. I would count down, instead of up. "I'm going to count to three and if you don't I'll (insert punishment here)" is not as effective as a countdown.

"When I get to zero, you need to be going upstairs so that we can get dinner started." I usually start from 5 - it gives enough time to let them think it's their idea.

Then the longer he spends not in time out becomes the amount of time he misses out on TV because you're going to have to hol doff on dinner. Bed time doesn't move, but he'll miss out on something else because he's holding up dinner.

There's no need to remove other currency - it's not related to the actions he's doing.

If swearing is something he's doing I would look at a system whereby there is some sort of accumulating reward for using alternative, agreed upon 'frustration words' and penalties for using a swear word. Then just employ that strategy after a calm reminder - don't add it to the current violence and make longer time out or take something else away, keep it separate.

Enact whatever consequence comes of something broken. Broken blind? No window coverings, he'll have to have a bedsheet or newspaper taped up there until you are 'able' to buy a new one. Anything he's messed up, he cleans up. That'll eat into his TV time too. And if it's not done it'll eat into tomorrow's time as well.

HTH

#12 Spa Gonk

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:36 PM

I like time out in bedrooms, but I would not leave him in there alone if I thought he was likely to hurt himself or his environment.  Ignoring this behaviour to me feels like I am condoning it, when I want to send a clear message hurting others or destroying property/ kicking walls, trashing bedrooms is not on.  I would take him to the backyard and hold him gently but firmly until his rage stops, to ensure he does not hurt himself or his environment.  I would tell him that I am worried about him hurting himself and that I will hold him until he calms down.  I mention too that we are outside so he can make as much protest noises as he likes, but we will be staying like this until he is calm, and then he can finish the timeout in his room.  And I make sure I keep a calm voice.  Once he finishes raging, you may find he is fine to comply.

How I would have intervened earlier depends.  I may have tried to avoid it,  by thinking of some sort of distraction for him inside or letting him know if he comes in now we would go out after tea.  Or I would try and use a natural consequence, such as you must come now, if you don't it is taking away from the time I need for cooking tea and then we won't have enough time for you to watch tv.  Or I would count to 3 and he would go to time out if he wasn't in by 3.

Different kids respond to different kids and as a parent you feel more comfortable with some types of discipline over others.

ETA, with the whole where to do time out thing, I really started thinking about what I wanted time out to achieve.  For me, doing time out somewhere like the laundry served no other purpose other than to punish.  Where I liked the idea that time out could in the future hopefully help them to take themselves off to their bedroom to get away from the situation or away from too much stimulation.  I really don't care if they have a nice play when in time out.  I want to diffuse the situation and for it to stop.  I will apply appropriate consequences other than time out if warranted.  The child also needs to be apologetic to come out at the end.  I have actually had my son choose to stay in his room after time out, for sometimes as long as 30 minutes.  I think this has helped to show me that he also realises that he needed a bit of quiet time on his own.  And I certainly enjoy the peace after he had misbehaved too original.gif. So basically, I do hope that in the future instead of going to his room when he is naughty, he might actually skip the naughty part and go there when things get too much.

Edited by Spotted Giraffe, 11 February 2013 - 04:28 AM.


#13 *Finn*

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (Funwith3 @ 10/02/2013, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hands up who's buying fish oil tablets tomorrow??! (My hand is up).... I never knew this!


Yep I will be. That is the fifth time in less than one week I have read a comment or reccommendation on fish oil tablets for children's behaviour.

Op I think you handled the situation really well. You were calm and rational but also still loved and cared for the angry screaming child. I really think this is where my DH struggles when DS is losing the plot, he lets anger take over and loses his behaviour techniques.

On the odd occasion something like this has happend with  DS who has just turned 3 I have pulled the pin on all discipline and just hugged him to calm him down. By that stage he is so mentally and physically exhausted it is like he is on a different planet.

#14 Mis-Placed

Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:18 AM

I have found that you need to make the "time-out" area somewhere incredibly boring like the laundry. He's bedroom has way too many things to distract or focus on. Instead he should be standing in a boring room with nothing to play with and will then naturally start "thinking" about he's behaviour and what he's done wrong....

#15 monkeys mum

Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Molondy @ 10/02/2013, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am at a genuine loss and as a result am after genuine advice.

My son is 4.5 and has a pretty shocking temper. He gets it from me so I don't help matters but this afternoon something happened that turned absolutely and utterly pear shaped and I don't really know what I should have done differently.

Anyway Tom gets himself really over excited and has difficulty listening and doing what he is told in these moments. It is a constant challenge however on this particular occasion he simply decided he wanted to play downstairs. Our front yard is not fenced, my husband wasn't home and I was trying to sort out dinner.

I asked him to come upstairs. He refused. I told him to come upstairs. He got angry and screamed at me, including a swear word (starting with F). I kept calm and told him that if he wasn't upstairs by the time I counted to 3 he would miss out on television that evening (night time ritual - 30 mins of tv before bed). He came upstairs but after he got to the top he rushed at me, grabbed at me and really hurt me (grabbed my boob). That was two really bad things - swearing and violence.

In our house violence towards others results in time out. So I took him to time out. As I often do I tell him if he comes out of time out he loses temporary possession of his favorite toy (Woody) He spends some time in his room looking for Woody then leaves his room to try and hide him. I remove Woody from his possession and put him back in his room.

He then decides to find Buzz so Buzz can rescue Woody. He leaves again. I put him back in. He starts screaming.

He then leaves his room again and I put him back in again.

He stays in his room and starts bashing and thumping things. I judge he can't hurt himself as he isn't bashing his glass wardrobe doors and doesn't seem to be hitting anything with solid objects and resolve to wait until he calms down and then, give him his bloody 4 minute time out. Just as I am about to go and tell him time out doesn't start until he calms down I hear him leave the room. As I go to get him and look in the room and he has yanked out the blind in his bedroom.

Until this point I have been calm. No yelling, No swearing - simply trying to reinforce the disiplinary action I have deemed appropriate.

Of course on seeing the blind I completely lose it and everything goes pear shaped and I end up feeling like a worthless mother who is the worst possible role model.

How would you have managed this situation? Not just the end but the whole thing? - Time out just does not seem to work with this child - it just seems to escalate the problem but how else would you have managed the swearing/violence.

We do use star charts but that only works when kids are rational. by the time the swearing and violence starts he isn't generally rational anymore... I should also point out that he generally gets the most angry/upset at the THOUGHT of consequences. So he can be being mildy naughty and If I tell him what the consequences are if he doesn't stop THEN he goes off his brain - before the consequence even sets in!

I should also say that when he really really loses it I forget about consequences and keep him safe which usually means firm cuddles and quiet talking but that really didn't seem an option to me this afternoon.

(by the way I should clarify he isn't like this ALL the time. But it has been a challenging weekend)...

Thanks.


Some great advice given so far, but there's a few things I wanted to add.

When outside time was finished was it simply a 'Can you please come inside so I can start dinner' type of thing? Or was there warning for him that what he was enjoying doing was about to come to an end? my 6yo is really into using the tablet, now we don't mind as he's doing things on it that are educational or helpful for him, not to mention its his obsession lately. When it is almost time for him to finish I give him a five minute warning, 'H five minutes till the tablet needs put away so you can wash your hands for dinner', then he gets a three minute and one minute warning. Sometimes he has put it away before the five minutes is fully up, other times I will offer him a consequence. 'H five minutes is up so the tablet needs put away, if this isn't done by 5 there will be no tablet tomorrow' '1- 2- 3 and he's scrambling to put it away.

Another thing might be getting him involved and keeping his hands busy, get him to grate carrots, pour water into the pot, bash the steak, help with this or that, my kids all love helping in the kitchen. Yes it may add five minutes to the time it takes but it acts as a distraction, gives him something to do so diverts his attention, and gives him Mummy time. This might add as an incentive to get him inside easier, 'Hey Tom can you come and help Mummy make dinner?'

My kids get sent to their rooms for chill out time, they don't get time out as such, but they get sent there to have a breather, calm themselves down and think about their actions. Once they are visibly calmer dp or i will go in and chat to them about their actions, how they felt, and what they could have done differently. Then if they need to apologise to a sibling, clean something, whatever they then do that. Our consequences reflect what they did, some times if its behaviour related chill out time is enough, if say the 3yo drew on the wall then he has to get a wipe and clean it- yeah happened this week after a year of nothing I think he forgot how boring wiping a wall was. We use chill out time because like us adults sometimes they just need to chill out, calm down and regroup their emotions.

Also what worked for DS1 when he was going through a hard hard year was labelling his feelings, 'yes i know you are sad/angry/frustrated you have to come inside but we have to use our words'

If he's messed his room up did he help clean it? Or help sort out the blind?

Seriously though we can all offer suggestions or share what we do but you have to find what works best for Tom and you. What works for my ds1 doesn't work for my dd for some things, also if dd doesn't get 10hrs of sleep a night i can guarantee the next evening i will be wanting to bash my head against the wall multiple times over, DS1 needs at least 8-9hrs and he gets set off it there is a change to his routine. So finding out their triggers also helps to stop the behaviour before it begins.


#16 Feralishous

Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:26 AM

nothing to add to the advice above, but I can relate, our DD can be very angry too sad.gif

#17 beabea

Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

I've had days like these!

I'm not sure if you can avoid them entirely for your whole parenting journey, but we have managed to minimise them by, basically, completely rethinking our approach to discipline. I put this forward because you said in your OP that it's not an isolated incident - it's something that happens all the time. So it may be worth a radical re-think. Here's my take, for what it's worth:

I have a bit of a head start here, as I was another child who didn't really respond to punishments or rewards, so I was kind of sympathetic to DS's point of view when he acted the same way as I used to. I would go out of my way to misbehave if someone tried to threaten or bribe me. My mother had parent-teacher interviews over it, because the more people tried to "persuade" me to behave (by using threats or bribes), the more I misbehaved. Sometimes someone would try to patiently explain why they wanted me to behave (ie, do as I was told), but this wasn't particularly effective, either.

I remember all I really wanted was for people to stop treating me like a freaking kid and act towards me like they acted towards other adults. And yes, this even applied in preschool.

So when you want another adult to do something, generally you start by explaining what your problem is. You don't tend to start by delivering a solution. So you explain the problem, then you find out what their side of the equation is, too. So (I'm repeating here, but it's worth it) you explain the problem from both angles, and you acknowledge that both sides of the equation are worthy of attention. All this before anyone proposes any sort of solution.

Then you might suggest a solution or you might ask them to propose a solution first, even if you already have one in mind. The solution is either mutually agreeable or, if a mutual solution is not possible, some sort of compensation is usually offered (an apology, promises to rethink things for the future, etc - although in this case I don't see it going well without an agreeable alternative to playing downstairs).

Now, of course, you wouldn't expect a 4.5 year old to come up with sensible solutions like you would expect an adult to - the adult will have to do the heavy lifting in the conversation (although a 4.5yo should be able to think of an alternative to playing downstairs, with a little guidance). The main thing is the child feels as if their point of view matters as much as anyone else's, and that it's not just a case of oh there goes mum bossing me around again just because she thinks she has a right to.

It can be a big help here to make sure he knows that you're not cooking dinner for fun - this is really not obvious to a 4.5yo, and it's important to convey the problem and your viewpoint on it accurately, so that you can get the best solution. So it's not like you "want" to cook dinner and he wants to play downstairs, it's more like you want to lie down and read a book and drink wine but you are putting yourself out for his benefit because you are mature enough to know what is right, but you need his cooperation too, and because you realise this is hard for him you are giving him the chance to think of a way to cooperate that is relatively pleasant for him. Or he can wash vegetables with you in the kitchen sink, if that sounds like fun to him (he might surprise you...). There is an underlying assumption (or perhaps it is more accurate to say that you put across the expectation) that, like you, he is mature enough to be responsible enough to rise to his obligations, just like you. Expectations are wildly powerful. Seriously, expecting things like this is almost like a Jedi mind trick sometimes.

In fact, I would say that, speaking personally, I would behave like an angel towards anyone who simply expected maturity and responsibility and an inbuilt sense of right and wrong. I behaved like an absolute sh*t to anyone who expected that I didn't know right from wrong and therefore needed to be coerced into doing what I was told with some sort of consequence. I mean seriously, it just made me think well, **** you, you obviously think I'm some amoral animal or some piece of dirt you stepped in, and frankly you deserve for me to prove you right. Any time you want to start thinking of me as a basically well-intentioned person who just happens to be under seven, we can start getting along.

The last time I sent DS 4.5yo to his room because all of the above failed and things were in a downward spiral I tasked him with a) completing a calming exercise and then b) figuring out what he was going to do with himself which wasn't a pita to everyone else, given certain constraints (namely, everyone else being busy with specific tasks) before he emerged from his room again. So no time limits. And it wasn't a punishment so much as an opportunity to be the kind of cooperative family member we knew he could be - I was merely noting that he needed to spend some time away in order to gather himself together first. After two minutes he asked to come out of his room in order to complete some work on his sticker book. I happily agreed and the rest of the evening was pleasant (well... mostly... the next forty-five minutes were fine and at least everybody held it together until bedtime, by the skin of their teeth).

So we also teach calming techniques which we try to use prior to any discipline being enacted because otherwise there's no point - nothing goes in.

We use other techniques such as requiring DS to try again (eg if saying something impolite we don't move on until he tries again - it's not enough to just tell him we don't like his tone, and again this is like insisting that, "I know you want to do this right you just don't seem to know how," instead of, "Stop doing it wrong on purpose!") and trying to align his interests with ours by (in the short term) giving him a role to play in things that need to be done (eg he has spent a lot of time helping with the cooking or doing other chores) and in the long term promoting values like teamwork and community etc.

Edited by beabea, 11 February 2013 - 02:04 AM.


#18 Molondy

Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:09 AM

Thank you to all those who replied. To give a little bit more clarity:

1. playing downstairs really isn't an option where we live. Playing out the back is but downstairs just isn't safe for a little guy who runs on the road.
2. he did comply with my 1-2-3 which is by far the most effective parenting tool I have come up with however it was after the "compliance" that he became violent.
3. Chocolate Addict I am aware that his swearing comes from his parents but It is an extremely rare occasion that I swear at my children. When I was completely and utterly at the end of my rope last night I swore but before that I did not.
4. I have been trying to use time out as a "calming down" period rather than a punishment but its not really working. Will have to try harder.
5. The biggest mistake is piling "punishment" on top of "punishment" but when  kid is screaming and hitting you sometimes you don't think that clearly

I suppose in hindsight I should have just ignored the violence and swearing and let him calm down before doing something. I'm not sure what. Back to the star chart I guess!

Thanks a lot you have all given me heaps to consider (one of which is a star chart for mummy - a star every time I can go a day without yelling perhaps?)

#19 brindle

Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:24 AM

SOrry, haven't read all the responses... but my angry kid just turned 4. I too feel I handle it for so long... and then when I end up losing my temper feel like I a bad example.

I have actually taken him to a child psychologist. It has been great, as we discuss different parenting techniques, and ways of handling situations.

My major break through though is FOOD. Colours, preservatives, additives. We now have a diet that consists of food nearly all made by me. He is MUCH HAPPIER kid... and while we still have some tantrums, they are easier to handle. It is simple as a ham sandwich or a small fruit based cordial (200 numbers) or meal with stock cube in it (600 numbers) that will send him into irrational anger.

Have a look at www.fedup.com.au

#20 Country (deci)Mel

Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (howdo @ 10/02/2013, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Enact whatever consequence comes of something broken. Broken blind? No window coverings, he'll have to have a bedsheet or newspaper taped up there until you are 'able' to buy a new one.


My sister is a very volatile person.

I remember her having an icecream bucket lid taped over the hole in her window (caused by throwing a hairbrush through it in the midst of a tantrum) for what seemed like months - in the depths of winter, in a very cold, wet part of the world - when my parents stuck to this reasoning!


As a parent now she is aware that her volatility was NOT good modelling:
QUOTE (Molondy @ 11/02/2013, 08:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks a lot you have all given me heaps to consider (one of which is a star chart for mummy - a star every time I can go a day without yelling perhaps?)


She has been known to after sending the offending child away until they can "Be a nice gentle boy again.." and when a little knock on the door happens: "Mummy I is a nice gentle boy now, can I come back?" to answer - truthfully - "I am not a nice gentle Mummy yet, how about you stay there and I stay here for a bit longer?"

The children understand - and I think it helps them to acknowledge that EVERYONE (well except Auntie Countrymel of course!) gets angry, and the best way to deal with anger is to remove yourself from the situation.


#21 Steggles

Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

Maybe try Time in http://positiveparentingconnection.net/tim...the-difference/
original.gif

#22 SizzleNix

Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Steggles that Time In article is fascinating and we are absolutely going to give it a try as opposed to time out. Our 4.5 yr old ds does not handle time out well and is always coming out of the corner or continually screaming sorry mummy at the top if his lungs instead of  sitting there quietly. I think the time in theory could really be a good alternative for him.

#23 fillesetjumeaux

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:05 AM

This has been a very helpful thread for me - I have a volatile 4yo and a volatile 8yo, and some of the tips I will be trying with both of them.

But I have to confess, my children take fish oil already - everyone saying how much difference they make is scaring me into wondering how psychotic the 4yo and 8yo would be if they didn't take it!!!

#24 Mandy12

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

I'm sorry but it sounds to me as though he knows you are going to lose it and he is pushing until you do. That is his payoff.

I don't understand how you think he can control his temper at the age of 4 when you can't control yours.

'Losing it', all hell breaking loose, these are rather violent and extreme terms. We, as a society seem to expect our children to be better than us. They can only learn from what we do.

Dispassionate, consistent, calm discipline will give you a relatively calm child. Losing it, all hell breaking loose, stressed angry reactive discipline isn't really discipline.

Sorry, have to be honest.

#25 Peppery

Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (Funwith3 @ 10/02/2013, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hands up who's buying fish oil tablets tomorrow??! (My hand is up).... I never knew this!


  waves.gif




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Today, on White Ribbon Day - and every other day - we're teaching our son to say no to violence against women.

Mothers told to breastfeed in 'spacious' toilet

If there is one thing the owners of Tillings Cafe can be certain of, it is that the eatery won't win the award for Britain's best baby-friendly coffee shop any time soon.

Mother gives name to son dumped down drain

A woman who admitted to dumping her newborn baby down a Sydney drain has reportedly been allowed to give him a name.

Taking small steps to reduce stress

Are you feeling used up by life's stress, family problems and a demanding job you can't turn off? Many people are way beyond work-life exhaustion. They are functioning as robots.

Bad news: we're running out of chocolate

The world's biggest chocolate-maker says we're running out of chocolate.

Born at 23 weeks, 'Chopstick Baby' survives first week

A baby who was born at 23 weeks has survived her first week of life outside the womb.

Manic stations: the nesting instinct in pregnancy

It might sound like temporary insanity, but almost obsessive nesting as you near your due date isn’t uncommon – even if you’re not usually a particularly clean person.

How a baby can survive alone for days on end

The baby found abandoned in a Sydney drain may have been alone for up to six days without being fed, leaving many asking how he could have survived.

When it begins to look a lot like Christmas

A child's excitement at Christmas time is a beautiful thing, but one dad ponders whether his toddler daughter is getting into the festive mood a bit too soon.

Hospital lets dads the experience some of the pain of childbirth

A new experience is radically altering men's views of childbirth.

Italian doctors questioned over formula bribes

Italian police have placed 12 doctors under house arrest on suspicion of promoting baby milk formula over breastfeeding.

Heartwarming prank gives single mum the house she was hired to clean

Cara Simmons arrived at work to clean a large and beautiful house in time for a party planned for that evening. It was soon hers.

Those special moments of sibling bonding

Every now and then your child does or says something that is truly memorable.

Why we should stop telling new parents to 'enjoy every moment'

A few weeks ago, some dear friends of mine had their first baby. As the proud dad texted me a picture I had to fight the natural instinct to say “Enjoy every moment!”

Baby monitor footage posted online

Footage of Australian babies and children sleeping in their bedrooms are among the images on a Russian site showing live feeds from thousands of homes and businesses around the world.

Did this new dad really hit on his wife's midwife?

Was there really a man who was actually there by his wife’s side as she laboured and gave birth to his child, all while he was making what he perceived to be meaningful eye contact with a midwife?

Keep calm and ignore the Tantrum Trolls

Tantrum Trolls are a small but growing species of predatory bottom-feeders who delight in picking on parents at their most vulnerable.

It's okay to never 'get over' the death of a loved one

The death of children, siblings, and parents has long term impacts on the rest of our lives.

What Mark Latham needs to know about depression and motherhood

Love has nothing to do with mental illness. But love may drive a mother to do something about it.

'We're just trying to keep our child alive': life with FPIES

We have a beautiful seven-month-old son, and his allergy rules our life.

Transgender dad breastfeeds his babies

A transgender man who breastfed his first baby - despite having his breasts removed as part of his transformation from female to male - has now had a second child.

Couple face $1 million medical bill and bankruptcy after babymoon birth

A Canadian couple were slammed with a million dollar medical bill after their daughter was prematurely during their babymoon.

Cigarettes, junk food dominate supermarket sales growth

One in every five dollars spent at supermarkets goes on cigarettes or junk food, according to industry data.

Teacher under fire for breastfeeding in class

There is no doubt mums have a right to continue breastfeeding after they have returned to work, but one teacher in the US has taken it to the extreme.

Win a family pass to Disney Live!

We have 4 family passes to give away to see Disney Live! presents Three Classic Fairy Tales, touring Australia this December/January.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
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What's hot on EB

Join PADDINGTON on the red carpet!

To celebrate the release of PADDINGTON, we are giving five lucky winners the chance to win a family pass to the exclusive Australian Premiere in Sydney on December 7!

The tragedy of losing a favourite teddy bear

We were green and uninitiated, perhaps a little naïve when it came to the favourite toy responsibility.

Video: Baby sniffs beardless dad to make sure it's him

She looks him up and down and then touches his chin, but baby Lindsey still isn't sure this clean-shaven man is her dad.

It's possible to workout while pregnant

Medical experts say intense fitness routines can be done safely during pregnancy - if the mums-to-be follow some guidelines.

What parents really want for their kids

Are our hopes, dreams and expectations for our children what they really need?

'I had a feeling something was seriously wrong'

Before even giving birth, Katie Myers' maternal instincts warned her something was wrong with her baby.

When your pregnancy causes a relationship rift

Some dads-to-be don't miss a beat when their partner is pregnant; others struggle with a range of issues and can become withdrawn, right when their support is needed most.

Couple uses group photo trick to announce pregnancy to loved ones

Katharine and Kris Camilli devised a clever trick to immortalise their family and friends' reactions to their exciting pregnancy news.

Why Tracey Spicer has given up make-up

"After 30 years on television, I had become what I despised: a painted doll who spent an hour a day and close to $200 a week putting on a mask."

Knowing you are one of the lucky ones

I am secure, confident and strong, but the responsibility of protecting my children can almost bring me undone.

Why I am so emotional now I have kids?

There are so many ways in which parenthood changes us as women, but one of the most noticeable, for me, has been the changing state of my emotions.

Baby survives despite sharing womb with 'foreign body'

Baby Maia was conceived against the odds, only to find she was sharing a womb with an ominous "foreign body".

Video: Baby shows dog how to jump - or vice versa

They say dog is man's best friend, but this playful pooch seems to have chosen a jumping baby as her number one buddy.

10 ways to soothe a crying baby

New paernts can get frustrated when their newborn gets fussy and can't settle down. When you're feeling overwhelmed, try some of these simple tips to help soothe your baby.

20 baby names that are becoming more popular every year

The data-lovers at nameberry.com have been at it again – this time, they’ve discovered the names that are continually rising up the ranks, ready to take out some top spots in the next few years.

10 great meals to make for new parents

Ideally, you want to give food that isn’t expensive to make, isn't too difficult to create, and freezes well; stews, bakes, soups and pasta sauces are perfect.

Weird pregnancy products

Some pregnancy products come to market and are just awesome. Others just leave you scratching your head.

Carers admit to force-feeding children

Twin brothers have become dads on the same day ? with their partners giving birth in the same hospital, and even the same birthing pool.

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
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