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Julie Bishop: No we can't have it all.


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#1 Feral Becky

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/julie-bish...c-1226574610501

I am no fan of her, or her politics but I agree.

Trying to have everything is just too hard.

By that I mean full-time job, clean house, happy kids, home cooked meals..something has to suffer.

WDYT?

#2 RealityBites

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

I think she's an idiot  biggrin.gif

#3 Snot stew

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

Wasn't it Quentin Bryce who said something like, "Women can have it all, just not all at the same time."  I try to remember that original.gif



QUOTE (RealityBites @ 10/02/2013, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think she's an idiot  biggrin.gif


Well yeh, that's a given.


#4 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Babycino2 @ 10/02/2013, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/julie-bish...c-1226574610501

I am no fan of her, or her politics but I agree.

Trying to have everything is just too hard.

By that I mean full-time job, clean house, happy kids, home cooked meals..something has to suffer.

WDYT?

I think no matter who you are, it's hard to have everything you want, all at the same time. To manage that, people have priorities.  And priorities can change over time.  What you thought was important at one time may fade into the background at another time, or vice versa.

And it's the same for blokes too.

Edited by YodaTheWrinkledOne, 10 February 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#5 Feral_Pooks

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE
As Attorney-General Nicola Roxon announced she was resigning to spend more time with her daughter, Ms Bishop said she agreed with a US academic who argued it was impossible for women to have top careers and be mothers unless they were rich, self-employed or super-human.


Does the same go for men?

#6 mitty82

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

I do agree to an extent. I work full time hours with a shift working hubby and no my house isnt spotless but is relatively clean(is it that important as long as it is hygenic?), kids are happy(they do music and swimming, we do things on the wknds with them, read books before bed, do homework etc), home cooked meals -im not a great cook whether im working or not there is no difference(we dont do take away often, maybe once a month or fortnight depends on schedule), happy me? i have been sick so trying to get ontop of how I feel.

Mothers put to much pressure on themselves especially if they are working with mummys guilt etc.

You just have to learn what isnt as important and do the most important things first.

#7 FeralFemboside

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

A busted clock is correct twice a day too...

#8 halcyondays

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

Well, apparently men can have it all- full time job, clean house, happy kids, home cooked meals.
Just means you need to get yourself a suitable husband to keep the domestic side ticking over.



#9 RealityBites

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

OP - You mentioned clean house and home-cooked meals but not time spent with the children, or me-time. A tad 1950s.

Seriously, I think finding a balance you are happy with is a struggle for both women and right-thinking men! That is life. But thank god for the options we have these days, I wouldn't give my career up for anything. My husband does most of the shopping and cooking. And we hire a cleaner.  shrug.gif

fwiw, I think Nicola Roxon's departure was more to do with rats and a sinking ship than anything else ..

#10 4kidlets

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

I think 'having it all' is such a trite vague meaningless phrase anyway.
Everyone's idea of all they want is different, everyone has different priorities and different circumstances.
Such a pointless topic really.

#11 kadoodle

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:25 PM

It's always the way with working women though, you need to do twice as well to be thought of as half as good.

If I had someone at home to cook, clean, kid-wrangle, pay the bills and do the general gopha work, I'd have a much easier life and my career progression would be much smoother.

It bugs the heck out of me that I'm the one setting up a business, running another business, whilst looking after 4 kids. Then DH swans home from work for one week a month and the kids are all over him like a rash, telling him how wonderful he is.

Argh, I'm tired, I have a cold and I seriously CBF getting up at sparrowfart to pick him up from the airport in the morning.  I love him.  But right now I'm sick of FIFO.  I want to be able to work away for three weeks, to get paid a good wage, get a good night's sleep, have all my meals cooked for me and have someone keep the home fires burning for me while I'm away.

#12 Jane Jetson

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

Rubbish. It's easy to have it all. Just be born with a penis.

That way you can have kids *and* a career and hobbies and nobody will even think twice about you.

Or we could get it through our collective thick heads that limiting women's choices in this manner (while paying full homage to men's) is a societal construct that we have the ability to change if we want to, whether it be in the form of not making gender-based assumptions about which partner in a couple makes the sacrifices, or re-examining the capitalist paradigm as it currently stands.

#13 StopTheGoats

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

Nobody can have 'it all'. Not unless they have significant help. My husband couldn't balance full time work as a senior corporate type with appropriate child care, sound mental health, a sparkly house and a side business in muffin baking without assistance any better than me.

We aren't going back to the 50's, no matter how many times conservatives click their heels together and wish very hard. So, make with the assistance Jules. You're the only one here in a position to make it happen.

#14 Angelot

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

I think saying that women can't have it all, is a way of saying that women who are dissatisfied with what they do have, and are expressing criticism of the structural barriers in the way of doing better, are being unreasonable and should shut up.

I'm not impressed.

#15 Feral Becky

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

QUOTE (4kidlets @ 10/02/2013, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think 'having it all' is such a trite vague meaningless phrase anyway.
Everyone's idea of all they want is different, everyone has different priorities and different circumstances.
Such a pointless topic really.



T'was just something to chat about  original.gif

#16 Jane Jetson

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE (Ange Vert @ 10/02/2013, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think saying that women can't have it all, is a way of saying that women who are dissatisfied with what they do have, and are expressing criticism of the structural barriers in the way of doing better, are being unreasonable and should shut up.


Yes, I agree. It's very much used as a way to shut down any hint of wanting to discuss the fact that things aren't perfect the way they are.

#17 Faradaye

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

I really don't like it when she says

QUOTE
"I was 40 when I went into politics and the window closes pretty quickly at 40. So politics is pretty much my life.

"I feel incredibly lucky that I've had the kind of career that is so consuming that I don't feel I have a void in my life."


I feel like she's saying if ladies who feel any sense of grief or are struggling with the emotional reality of being childless (when they wish otherwise) just need to get a better job and it would fix everything.

This seems a bit insulting.

#18 kadoodle

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

You said it much better than I could have, Ange.

#19 SplashingRainbows

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

I think that's a load of codswallop.
Although I do agree that in our current societal framework a woman does have to be rich, self employed or superhuman.

We should be fighting harder to change that, and breaking down the barriers of wealth and increasing flexibility in our workplaces - for all parents.

I also think we should make any child caring entitlements for women accessible to all parents - men and women. I'm completely convinced men waking a mile in our shoes will help the cause immeasurably.

#20 Ninja Lemur

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Pooks_fembo @ 10/02/2013, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does the same go for men?


No.  They are, as a group, batter at outsourcing the crap bits.

QUOTE
Trying to have everything is just too hard.

By that I mean full-time job, clean house, happy kids, home cooked meals..something has to suffer.


For me that sounds far from the "everything" I aspire to.  Many guys get that plus leisure time.

#21 lizzzard

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

FFS - noone can 'have it all'. Life is about prioritising often conflicting goals. However I'll play along...

This article annoyed me. At an individual level, obviously everyone (male and female) should strive to make their own choices about where their prioritises lie, and then own those choices with self-confidence.

However at a societal level, I suspect this constant message that 'women can't have it all' is far more insidious than we realise.

Moreover, I find comments by people like Bishop to be incredibly condescending to those of us to *do* strive to 'have it all' (whatever that is...but I suspect it involves being a mother with a career)- as if we'll somehow get to the end of our lives and realise we missed something that more enlightened women like her knew all along. Grrrr....



#22 liveworkplay

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

QUOTE
, "Women can have it all, just not all at the same time."


Totally agree.

#23 Canberra Chick

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

I think she is talking rubbish.
I think if you hae an unsupportive partner then yes, it can be impossible.
I also  think it depends on what you mean by 'having it all'.

I think I do have a great set up. I have made certain choices that allow me to work PT and be there when DS comes home from school. It means I earn less and do the same work as my male and female colleague who get a full time wage but somehow seem to only do the same load as me.  rolleyes.gif

I am able to climb the ladder and also have plans in place for being able to work FT if I went up a level (I wouldn't do that work load and only draw a PT wage). I work with my women who work FT and can fit in family commitments because of teleworking, flexible start and finish times etc. most people don't care if you have flexible arrangements so long as you still get the job done.

We eat home cooked meals, DH gardens and does woodwork, I sew, there is still time for the gym and for chilling out with the kids. It does involve careful planning and thinking ahead, skills that one should have to be in a professional job anyway...




#24 Julie3Girls

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

"Having it all" is going to vary so much in what people want for themselves. And also how much help they are able or willing to use to get it.

People saying men can have it all .., I actually think woman can have exactly what men have. You can have your high powered career. You can have kids. You can come home to a spotless house. And have evenings and weekends with your family.  You just have to work out how you want to get it ...  Work out how to share the housework equitably with your partner, hire a cleaner, put your children in childcare or hire a nanny.

I think the hard part for a lot of mothers is being torn between the career and wanting to be with their children.  Not wanting to let go of some of the things that are easy when you are sahm but so much harder when you are working full time.

So yes, it might come down to making a choice or what you want, maybe a compromise, change your standards,your expectations,

#25 busy_bee

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

The way I try and describe where I am at the moment (DS is 21 months) is that I can't have ALL of it ALL. But I can have a bit of it all.

I work 4-5 days a fortnight (thurs, fri, second sat) 12 hour shifts. That way DS is only in LDC 2 days a week. That way I get to still work, and am home with DS quite a bit.

BUT

Although I work in my career area, it still isn't what I really want to do, and I've had to stop specialty training and halt career advancement in this role and DS still is in LDC 2 days a week. When I work the thur/fri/sat week because of the long hours I essentially don't see him from bed time wednesday till wake up sunday. We then only get 1 family day DH,DS and me that week.

As for the housework - I was never domesticated in the first place. DH knew he was never getting a cooked meal out of me and we still have our cleaner.

So while I have managed to 'balance' the work - family things to some extent. Each of them have had an element of sacrifice to them.

So I have a bit of it all, but not all of it all




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