Jump to content

20 yr anniversary of a horrible event...


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 123Babies4Me

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:28 AM

James Bulger

I was only 10 when this happened, so I have heard of it but had no idea of the details. I just read this story on news.com.

My son is just about to turn 3. There are just no words.....



#2 LambChop

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

It was a horrific event, RIP little man.  That poor poor family.

#3 Kay1

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

Gosh I remember it so well. So horrific.


#4 MarigoldMadge

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

There was a fascinating article about this case in the Good Weekend yesterday...

Warning : there are some very confronting details about how this poor boy died that I wasn't previously aware of...

http://m.theage.com.au/lifestyle/the-bad-s...0204-2dt7k.html

Interesting to read about how the parents of James behaved / how they were perceived, for years after the death of their son, the way the two killers were managed in jail and the contrast to other young killers in Norway and Britain.

#5 Jessie_T

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

RIP. those kids should have been locked up for life!!!!!

#6 ComradeBob

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:16 AM

I remember that case well. There were no winners, bar the slimy scum bucket politicians who used the moral outrage  to bolster their own pathetic agendas.

And no one ever asked at the time, or later to my knowledge, what it was that caused two tend year old boys to do such a horrific thing to another child. How did they end up so ****ed up that they couldn't relate to James Bulger as another human being? What had happened in their own short lives that made them capable of this?

Of course, it was far easier to just call them evil, which puts the blame solely back on them and meant that we as a society didn't have to confront our own failings. And there were a lot of failing in Liverpool in 1993, it was a pretty grim place with intergenerational unemployment, still living in the shadow of the Toxteth riots and the Hillsborough disaster, not to mention 15 years of Tory cuts and Maggie Thatcher's sustained class warfare.

#7 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember that case well. There were no winners, bar the slimy scum bucket politicians who used the moral outrage  to bolster their own pathetic agendas.

And no one ever asked at the time, or later to my knowledge, what it was that caused two tend year old boys to do such a horrific thing to another child. How did they end up so ****ed up that they couldn't relate to James Bulger as another human being? What had happened in their own short lives that made them capable of this?

Of course, it was far easier to just call them evil, which puts the blame solely back on them and meant that we as a society didn't have to confront our own failings. And there were a lot of failing in Liverpool in 1993, it was a pretty grim place with intergenerational unemployment, still living in the shadow of the Toxteth riots and the Hillsborough disaster, not to mention 15 years of Tory cuts and Maggie Thatcher's sustained class warfare.

Well said WingBob...much easier (read: intellectually lazy) to just fob them off as "bad seeds" than it is to explore the social factors which made this terrible thing happen....


#8 Freddie'sMum

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:42 AM

Well said WingBob.

I too remember this case like it was from yesterday - and the thought that crossed my mind at the time was "what the hell kind of homes have these two boys come from / what kind of parenting have they been exposed to / how can a 10 year old end up as a psychopath ??"

I remember seeing the TV footage of Jamie being lead away by the two boys and just crying my eyes out.



#9 ~Nodnol~

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:52 AM

Well said Wingbob.

I can't help but wonder what those two boys witnessed or experienced in their lives to make them capable of what they did.

sad.gif



#10 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

QUOTE (~Nodnol~ @ 10/02/2013, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't help but wonder what those two boys witnessed or experienced in their lives to make them capable of what they did.


I cannot either, but many children have an appalling home life and don't go on to become a murdering psychopath at 10 years old.  And clearly, whilst they weren't BORN evil, they are now, as one of them is back in jail for child pornography.  

My friends husband was a police officer on the case.  What he has said about it is horrific.  There is even worse stuff not reported.  He had to leave his job.  He said, if you'd seen, if you'd been there, you would have no doubt that the 2 boys were evil incarnate, and devoid of anything remotely human anymore.  

I'm sure their formative years caused them to become who they now are, but for the good of society, it is probably better they are being kept a close eye on.

As for the other cases mentioned - where the Swedish girl aged 5 was murdered, and her murderers were home with their families and back in school within a month:  nno.gif  where is the justice.  Her poor family and friends - how could you feel like justice was done?

#11 kadoodle

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

After 20 years, it still feels surreal.

What vile conditions must little children grow up in to enable them to be capable of doing that to another child?  My DH worked a little in Bootle and said it was frightening, as rough as guts.  He comes from Frankston and we lived in Warrington, so he's no toff.

James' mother though, the poor woman.  How could you heal after that happened to you?  One second you were holding your toddler's hand, the next he's gone forever.

#12 Akeyo

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:34 AM

It does affect you more now, having become a parent in the years since. My youngest son is 2 and I just shudder to think of him being taken like that. It makes me feel physically sick. How on earth do you ever process something like that? It's one thing to lose your child but to lose them in such a horrific manner. The grief would simply be overwhelming. Bless that dear little soul and his family.

#13 ComradeBob

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:38 AM

Lynnemine, the parents of that Norwegian girl DID feel that justice had been done. In every interview I have ever read, and there have been a few, the mother of that child was not out for revenge, she wanted those children to get the help they so obviously needed.

ETA Here is a link to just one of the articles I have read about it.

Edited by WingBob, 10 February 2013 - 08:44 AM.


#14 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lynnemine, the parents of that Norwegian girl DID feel that justice had been done. In every interview I have ever read, and there have been a few, the mother of that child was not out for revenge, she wanted those children to get the help they so obviously needed.

ETA Here is a link to just one of the articles I have read about it.


huh.gif  Oh OK - I wasn't aware of that.  I don't think I would be so forgiving.   sad.gif
Since the children are a product of their home, did she think that they were going to get that help in the same environment that created them in the first place?  As you've read about it - have they gone on to commit other crimes, or indeed been rehabilitated?  
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable as a mother of a Prep/Kinder for example, knowing there were 2 kids at my child's school who had callously murdered a 5 yr old.

ETA: Ok will go read the article now.

Edited by lynnemine, 10 February 2013 - 08:49 AM.


#15 ComradeBob

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

From what I understand, they did, because the community thinking was that they as a community had failed those two boys, therefore it was up to them to fix it.

Which is a pretty far cry from the way the two boys in the James Bulger case were treated. Those two boys should have been given every possible bit of help they possibly could, even if for no other reason than that if we  can understand how they got that way, then maybe we can stop it happening to some one else.



#16 RCTP

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

My heart just breaks for little Jamie and his parents.

I read an article last week in which his dad Ralph gave his first ever interview about it (I think that is correct) and I didn't realise they had already lost a little girl who was stillborn before Jamie was born - such sadness and tragedy in one family.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...l#axzz2KRhf3i4a

You can get into the nature vs nurture all day long on this one...my reading on a very basic level was that one was undoubtedly a psychopath, expressed no remorse and lied to the police from the start and the other was his easily led sidekick who caved easily and spilled his guts.

Every time my hubby or friends smart mouth about kids on "leashes" I always remind them of Jamie Bolger - his poor mother turned around for a matter of seconds and he was gone.

Edited by RCTP, 10 February 2013 - 09:06 AM.


#17 FiveAus

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

I remember the James Bulger case well. My own daughter was the same age as James, and I followed it on the news. A few years later I read a book about it. I have never forgotten the horror of those events, and the depths of grief I felt for James parents.

#18 Copper and May

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

I just cannot read these stories, but I remember it being on the news at the time. Anything about kids or dogs, I can't read. cry1.gif

#19 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I understand, they did, because the community thinking was that they as a community had failed those two boys, therefore it was up to them to fix it.

Which is a pretty far cry from the way the two boys in the James Bulger case were treated. Those two boys should have been given every possible bit of help they possibly could, even if for no other reason than that if we  can understand how they got that way, then maybe we can stop it happening to some one else.


Hmm, not sure about the bold.  Yes, the James Bolger murderers had to stand trial, but after that, they still went to school, got professional help etc.

From the article you linked to, I don't think all was forgiven and forgotten, more - they HAD to deal with it as that was the legal system they had.  

It was also a VERY different case:  
1. Two 10-year olds  'taking' a 2yr old beating, torturing with a sexual angle, and murdering a stranger, and then covering it up and lying about it.
2. Three children aged 5-6 playing together that got out-of-hand and they admitted it immediately.

I don't really think the two are similar at all, except for they are both by children.  One sounds impulsive and more-likely an accident.  The other was planned and intentional - they'd already tried to lure another toddler away from his mother.

The article also states:
Stepfather: "We've forgiven them for being children," he says, "but we'll never forgive them for what they did, if that makes sense ..."

And: "Redergard's sympathy for her daughter's killers has lessened over the years."  sad.gif





#20 Fright bat

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (lynnemine @ 10/02/2013, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
how could you feel like justice was done?



What would you need to feel 'justice' had been done? Lets remember that our ideas of what constitutes 'justice' are culturally based and have changed substantially over the years. It wasn't so long ago that public execution was the normal mode of 'justice'.

#21 Missy Shelby

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

What I think we need to remember that a little boy was tortured and killed, yes tortured and killed...I am not sure what happened to these two boys that led them down this path but they are still alive and James is dead sad.gif

In some ways I think it is really disrespectful to this little boys memory, on the 20th year anniversary on his death, to start to throw around the "what must have happened to the two boys to lead them down this path".

I think if any of us where in James' mums shoes our perspective would be very different.

RIP James

#22 Chelli

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

I was horrified the first time I read the details of what happened to that poor little boy sad.gif I also wonder what happened to his killers to commit such an unimaginable horror at such a young age.

#23 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:45 AM

I don't think it is necessarily disrespectful to search for reasons why this happened, perhaps if we did some more soul searching in this area we might stop it ever happening again.

I don't think anyone is ignoring the suffering that that poor little boy went through ...and indeed the suffering his family would still be going through.

I also think that justice is not the same as vengeance, and the two should never be confused.
EFS

Edited by Lucretia Borgia, 10 February 2013 - 09:45 AM.


#24 BadCat

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

What concerns me with that article is that the mother doesn't seem to have gotten the help she needs.  The way she clings to her 19yo son is not at all normal.  She needs help and I dare say now, so does he. Very sad situation.



#25 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Such a terrible, tragic event. sad.gif

Everything about this is tragic. What those boys must have gone through to make them capable of doing that to a baby is tragic. What James went through was horrific. What his family went through is awful. The fact that the boys were publically named and shamed and there was no attempt to understand what could possibly lead 2 children to do something like this still baffles me. The way the politicians used the public outrage for their own agendas and to win votes is despicable. It appears the boys never got the help they needed while locked up, hence the reoffending. And perhaps one of the saddest things of all is the way the family are still dealing with it. To still be holding on to that much anger and hatred, to keep your 19yo in such a bubble, is tragic. It seems that she was never given the help she needed to move on from this. How exactly a parent moves on from the brutal murder of her toddler, I don't know, but living with that much anger can't be helpful or healthy.

Everything about this is just terrible and tragic sad.gif

Edited due to auto correct

Edited by ~Karla~, 10 February 2013 - 10:03 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Funny Father's Day cards

A little fun never goes astray when celebrating special occasions and Father's Day is no different. We've rounded up some funny Father's day cards for your husbands, fathers and other important men in your lives.

Electronic tags may keep newborns safe

The possibility of using electronic bracelets for mothers and their newborn babies is being investigated by Adelaide's Women's and Children's Hospital. 

Baby steps: when your little one starts walking

As a parent there are so many milestones to look forward to. That first smile, first word - and, of course, that first step.

Julia Watson's new book 'Breakfast, School Run, Chemo'

Tomorrow my friend Julia launches her first book. And while we're all overjoyed, the success is tinged with sadness. You see, Julia has stage 4 bowel cancer.

How not to name twins

Call me boring, but I don't think that when it comes to choosing my twins' names is the right time to use a good pun.

Fun Sunny Life pool inflatables just for babies

The babies of 2015 will thus be thrilled to paddle their happy baby legs in these brand new flamingo and swan baby inflatables.

Baby and bulldog born on the same day are best friends

When Chicago mum Ivette Ivens saw a French bulldog puppy who had the same birthdate as her son Dilan, she "just knew it?s meant to be" and took him home. Five months later, puppy Farley and Dilan are the best of friends - as Ivens says, "I?m pretty sure Dilan thinks they?re both the same species, as they walk at the same level and are both going through the stage of chewing on everything.?

Breastfeeding basics for beginners

Here are 10 tips to help make breastfeeding successful and stress free for both you and your baby as quickly as possible.

Girl smothers baby brother with peanut butter

This mum had a big clean up job on her hands.

How to hide those under eye shadows

Pandas are the only ones who benefit from under-eye shadows. If you're not fluffy and cute, you'll just look tired.

Young mum dies after being denied pap smear

A mother has died after she was denied a pap smear because she was deemed "too young" to need it.

Birthday cakes banned at childcare centre

A childcare centre in Sydney has banned birthday cakes after parent complaints about excessive sugar and children with allergies being left out.

Triplet surprise for newlyweds

As the radiographer moved the wand over her abdomen, Shelley King got the surprise of her life.

3 yummy Thermomix baby and toddler recipes

Louise Fulton Keats shares her recipes for babies and toddlers, including corn and sweet pikelets, pumpkin and pea risotto, and cheesy bunny biscuits.

Man arrested over toddler Nikki's death

A 31-year-old man has been arrested over the death of two-year-old Nikki Francis-Coslovich in Mildura.

Adoption ban on pregnant women to be lifted

Pregnant women will no longer be barred from adoption waiting lists in NSW, after the Baird Government decided the practice was discriminatory.

Are you getting enough magnesium?

Magnesium is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body, but we don't talk enough about it and the vital role it plays in great health and energy, as well as disease prevention.

5 workplace lessons for new parents

Take heart in these principles that will transfer seamlessly from the workplace into your new life as a parent.

Mums to follow on Instagram

A creative outlet for many, there are some savvy women complementing their blogs and businesses with riveting Instagrams feeds. We've chosen a few which have bucketloads of appeal; there are some big time players and some smaller local ones, and they each bring their special brand of magic to the Instagram experience.

Review: The Volvo 2015 XC90 SUV has all the safety features your family needs

The new Volvo XC90 SUV's focus on keeping you safe does not come at the expense of comfort in the XC90.

Kim Kardashian reveals she may have hysterectomy

Kim Kardashian has revealed complications during pregnancy means she might have to have a hysterectomy after the birth of her second child.

Why late night snacks wreak havoc on weight loss

 Loath as you may be to admit it, chances are that at some point you have found yourself in the kitchen late at night, devouring food.

Toddler twins pretend to be asleep to fool mum

They say twins have a unique connection. If this cute clip is anything to go by, these toddler sisters like to use their special bond to try to fool their mother.

Dad bags: 10 picks for out and about

Getting out of the house is a big priority in the early years of parenthood and you need to take a well-stocked kit with you. We've chosen 10 of the best nappy bags sure to appeal to dads in style and function.

Win a Mountain Buggy Swift

To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Dads who do their share have more sex: study

For women trying to encourage their partners to take more interest in fatherhood, it could be the ultimate incentive.

Think you might have IBS, coeliac disease or Crohn's?

Conditions affecting the gastrointestinal tract are common in modern humans, and many are on the rise - including irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and coeliac disease.

Couple poses for newborn shoot with adorable puppy

Tired of being asked about their baby-making plans, Australian couple Matt and Abby decided to give a creative answer.

The exercises you know you should be doing (but probably aren't)

I bet your to-do list today is long. But somewhere on that massive list, are you making time for your pelvic floor?

This baby really loves the family cat

Some babies get excited when mum or dad come to get them from their cot after a nap.

Designer kids clothing good enough to eat by Oeuf

Even if you aren't heading to the Northern hemisphere in the next six months, you can't help but love the amazing food-themed knits for babies and kids by cult kids brand Oeuf.

Early exposure to peanuts recommended for allergy prevention

A paediatricians' group is recommending that infants at high risk of peanut allergies be given foods containing peanuts before they turn one.

Home brand foods contain less salt than pricier rivals

Supermarket home brand foods, long derided as cheap and inferior, contain far lower levels of salt than pricier, branded rivals, new research shows.

Nannies for hire, wherever you're flying

Ever dreaded the prospect of a long flight, dreaming about how wonderful it would be for a nanny to entertain the kids?

Couple poses for newborn shoot with adorable puppy

Tired of being asked about their baby-making plans, Australian couple Matt and Abby decided to give a creative answer: with an unusual photo shoot with their 'baby', a groodle (poodle/golden retriever cross) named Humphrey. The talented Elisha from Elisha Minnette Photography caught all the precious shots.

Is it okay to name your baby with a sense of humour?

My husband was sure that Danger was a good option for a boy. And as the pregnancy progressed, it actually started to sound really good.

Woman gives birth after having her own mother's uterus transplanted

In a world first, a healthy baby has been born from the same womb that nurtured his own mother.

So hot right now: double-barrelled baby names on the rise

It's one way to make your baby stand out from the pack – giving them not one, but two first names.

Second time around: is it really better the devil you know?

When I fell pregnant with my second child I was, naturally, very excited. Then it all started to come back to me - and I freaked.

Shopping with kids: breaking the pester-power cycle

You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.

How did we have babies before apps came along?

Three months ago, my wife, Chrysta, and I were driving along Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles when she let out a harrowing cry.

When your toddler disagrees

There comes a time when your child starts having different views to you. I didn't realise that time would come so soon.

Win a Pacapod this Father's Day

To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW

 

FREE TICKET

Discover the magic of the LEGOŽ DUPLOŽ Play Area in Sydney

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.