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20 yr anniversary of a horrible event...


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#1 SusieBlue

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:28 AM

James Bulger

I was only 10 when this happened, so I have heard of it but had no idea of the details. I just read this story on news.com.

My son is just about to turn 3. There are just no words.....



#2 LambChop

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

It was a horrific event, RIP little man.  That poor poor family.

#3 Kay1

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

Gosh I remember it so well. So horrific.


#4 haras1972

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

There was a fascinating article about this case in the Good Weekend yesterday...

Warning : there are some very confronting details about how this poor boy died that I wasn't previously aware of...

http://m.theage.com.au/lifestyle/the-bad-s...0204-2dt7k.html

Interesting to read about how the parents of James behaved / how they were perceived, for years after the death of their son, the way the two killers were managed in jail and the contrast to other young killers in Norway and Britain.

#5 Jessie_T

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

RIP. those kids should have been locked up for life!!!!!

#6 FeralBob!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:16 AM

I remember that case well. There were no winners, bar the slimy scum bucket politicians who used the moral outrage  to bolster their own pathetic agendas.

And no one ever asked at the time, or later to my knowledge, what it was that caused two tend year old boys to do such a horrific thing to another child. How did they end up so ****ed up that they couldn't relate to James Bulger as another human being? What had happened in their own short lives that made them capable of this?

Of course, it was far easier to just call them evil, which puts the blame solely back on them and meant that we as a society didn't have to confront our own failings. And there were a lot of failing in Liverpool in 1993, it was a pretty grim place with intergenerational unemployment, still living in the shadow of the Toxteth riots and the Hillsborough disaster, not to mention 15 years of Tory cuts and Maggie Thatcher's sustained class warfare.

#7 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember that case well. There were no winners, bar the slimy scum bucket politicians who used the moral outrage  to bolster their own pathetic agendas.

And no one ever asked at the time, or later to my knowledge, what it was that caused two tend year old boys to do such a horrific thing to another child. How did they end up so ****ed up that they couldn't relate to James Bulger as another human being? What had happened in their own short lives that made them capable of this?

Of course, it was far easier to just call them evil, which puts the blame solely back on them and meant that we as a society didn't have to confront our own failings. And there were a lot of failing in Liverpool in 1993, it was a pretty grim place with intergenerational unemployment, still living in the shadow of the Toxteth riots and the Hillsborough disaster, not to mention 15 years of Tory cuts and Maggie Thatcher's sustained class warfare.

Well said WingBob...much easier (read: intellectually lazy) to just fob them off as "bad seeds" than it is to explore the social factors which made this terrible thing happen....


#8 Freddie'sMum

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:42 AM

Well said WingBob.

I too remember this case like it was from yesterday - and the thought that crossed my mind at the time was "what the hell kind of homes have these two boys come from / what kind of parenting have they been exposed to / how can a 10 year old end up as a psychopath ??"

I remember seeing the TV footage of Jamie being lead away by the two boys and just crying my eyes out.



#9 ~Nodnol~

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:52 AM

Well said Wingbob.

I can't help but wonder what those two boys witnessed or experienced in their lives to make them capable of what they did.

sad.gif



#10 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

QUOTE (~Nodnol~ @ 10/02/2013, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't help but wonder what those two boys witnessed or experienced in their lives to make them capable of what they did.


I cannot either, but many children have an appalling home life and don't go on to become a murdering psychopath at 10 years old.  And clearly, whilst they weren't BORN evil, they are now, as one of them is back in jail for child pornography.  

My friends husband was a police officer on the case.  What he has said about it is horrific.  There is even worse stuff not reported.  He had to leave his job.  He said, if you'd seen, if you'd been there, you would have no doubt that the 2 boys were evil incarnate, and devoid of anything remotely human anymore.  

I'm sure their formative years caused them to become who they now are, but for the good of society, it is probably better they are being kept a close eye on.

As for the other cases mentioned - where the Swedish girl aged 5 was murdered, and her murderers were home with their families and back in school within a month:  nno.gif  where is the justice.  Her poor family and friends - how could you feel like justice was done?

#11 kadoodle

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

After 20 years, it still feels surreal.

What vile conditions must little children grow up in to enable them to be capable of doing that to another child?  My DH worked a little in Bootle and said it was frightening, as rough as guts.  He comes from Frankston and we lived in Warrington, so he's no toff.

James' mother though, the poor woman.  How could you heal after that happened to you?  One second you were holding your toddler's hand, the next he's gone forever.

#12 Akeyo

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:34 AM

It does affect you more now, having become a parent in the years since. My youngest son is 2 and I just shudder to think of him being taken like that. It makes me feel physically sick. How on earth do you ever process something like that? It's one thing to lose your child but to lose them in such a horrific manner. The grief would simply be overwhelming. Bless that dear little soul and his family.

#13 FeralBob!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:38 AM

Lynnemine, the parents of that Norwegian girl DID feel that justice had been done. In every interview I have ever read, and there have been a few, the mother of that child was not out for revenge, she wanted those children to get the help they so obviously needed.

ETA Here is a link to just one of the articles I have read about it.

Edited by WingBob, 10 February 2013 - 08:44 AM.


#14 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lynnemine, the parents of that Norwegian girl DID feel that justice had been done. In every interview I have ever read, and there have been a few, the mother of that child was not out for revenge, she wanted those children to get the help they so obviously needed.

ETA Here is a link to just one of the articles I have read about it.


huh.gif  Oh OK - I wasn't aware of that.  I don't think I would be so forgiving.   sad.gif
Since the children are a product of their home, did she think that they were going to get that help in the same environment that created them in the first place?  As you've read about it - have they gone on to commit other crimes, or indeed been rehabilitated?  
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable as a mother of a Prep/Kinder for example, knowing there were 2 kids at my child's school who had callously murdered a 5 yr old.

ETA: Ok will go read the article now.

Edited by lynnemine, 10 February 2013 - 08:49 AM.


#15 FeralBob!

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

From what I understand, they did, because the community thinking was that they as a community had failed those two boys, therefore it was up to them to fix it.

Which is a pretty far cry from the way the two boys in the James Bulger case were treated. Those two boys should have been given every possible bit of help they possibly could, even if for no other reason than that if we  can understand how they got that way, then maybe we can stop it happening to some one else.



#16 RCTP

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

My heart just breaks for little Jamie and his parents.

I read an article last week in which his dad Ralph gave his first ever interview about it (I think that is correct) and I didn't realise they had already lost a little girl who was stillborn before Jamie was born - such sadness and tragedy in one family.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...l#axzz2KRhf3i4a

You can get into the nature vs nurture all day long on this one...my reading on a very basic level was that one was undoubtedly a psychopath, expressed no remorse and lied to the police from the start and the other was his easily led sidekick who caved easily and spilled his guts.

Every time my hubby or friends smart mouth about kids on "leashes" I always remind them of Jamie Bolger - his poor mother turned around for a matter of seconds and he was gone.

Edited by RCTP, 10 February 2013 - 09:06 AM.


#17 FiveAus

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

I remember the James Bulger case well. My own daughter was the same age as James, and I followed it on the news. A few years later I read a book about it. I have never forgotten the horror of those events, and the depths of grief I felt for James parents.

#18 CharliMarley

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

I just cannot read these stories, but I remember it being on the news at the time. Anything about kids or dogs, I can't read. cry1.gif

#19 lynneyours

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE (WingBob @ 10/02/2013, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I understand, they did, because the community thinking was that they as a community had failed those two boys, therefore it was up to them to fix it.

Which is a pretty far cry from the way the two boys in the James Bulger case were treated. Those two boys should have been given every possible bit of help they possibly could, even if for no other reason than that if we  can understand how they got that way, then maybe we can stop it happening to some one else.


Hmm, not sure about the bold.  Yes, the James Bolger murderers had to stand trial, but after that, they still went to school, got professional help etc.

From the article you linked to, I don't think all was forgiven and forgotten, more - they HAD to deal with it as that was the legal system they had.  

It was also a VERY different case:  
1. Two 10-year olds  'taking' a 2yr old beating, torturing with a sexual angle, and murdering a stranger, and then covering it up and lying about it.
2. Three children aged 5-6 playing together that got out-of-hand and they admitted it immediately.

I don't really think the two are similar at all, except for they are both by children.  One sounds impulsive and more-likely an accident.  The other was planned and intentional - they'd already tried to lure another toddler away from his mother.

The article also states:
Stepfather: "We've forgiven them for being children," he says, "but we'll never forgive them for what they did, if that makes sense ..."

And: "Redergard's sympathy for her daughter's killers has lessened over the years."  sad.gif





#20 Agnodice the Feral

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (lynnemine @ 10/02/2013, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
how could you feel like justice was done?



What would you need to feel 'justice' had been done? Lets remember that our ideas of what constitutes 'justice' are culturally based and have changed substantially over the years. It wasn't so long ago that public execution was the normal mode of 'justice'.

#21 Missy Shelby

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

What I think we need to remember that a little boy was tortured and killed, yes tortured and killed...I am not sure what happened to these two boys that led them down this path but they are still alive and James is dead sad.gif

In some ways I think it is really disrespectful to this little boys memory, on the 20th year anniversary on his death, to start to throw around the "what must have happened to the two boys to lead them down this path".

I think if any of us where in James' mums shoes our perspective would be very different.

RIP James

#22 Chelli

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

I was horrified the first time I read the details of what happened to that poor little boy sad.gif I also wonder what happened to his killers to commit such an unimaginable horror at such a young age.

#23 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:45 AM

I don't think it is necessarily disrespectful to search for reasons why this happened, perhaps if we did some more soul searching in this area we might stop it ever happening again.

I don't think anyone is ignoring the suffering that that poor little boy went through ...and indeed the suffering his family would still be going through.

I also think that justice is not the same as vengeance, and the two should never be confused.
EFS

Edited by Lucretia Borgia, 10 February 2013 - 09:45 AM.


#24 BadCat

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

What concerns me with that article is that the mother doesn't seem to have gotten the help she needs.  The way she clings to her 19yo son is not at all normal.  She needs help and I dare say now, so does he. Very sad situation.



#25 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Such a terrible, tragic event. sad.gif

Everything about this is tragic. What those boys must have gone through to make them capable of doing that to a baby is tragic. What James went through was horrific. What his family went through is awful. The fact that the boys were publically named and shamed and there was no attempt to understand what could possibly lead 2 children to do something like this still baffles me. The way the politicians used the public outrage for their own agendas and to win votes is despicable. It appears the boys never got the help they needed while locked up, hence the reoffending. And perhaps one of the saddest things of all is the way the family are still dealing with it. To still be holding on to that much anger and hatred, to keep your 19yo in such a bubble, is tragic. It seems that she was never given the help she needed to move on from this. How exactly a parent moves on from the brutal murder of her toddler, I don't know, but living with that much anger can't be helpful or healthy.

Everything about this is just terrible and tragic sad.gif

Edited due to auto correct

Edited by ~Karla~, 10 February 2013 - 10:03 AM.





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