Jump to content

Annual leave in advance vs LWOP


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Lees75

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

Our company has always allowed leave without pay when requested, rather than annual leave in advance. Typical scenarios have been new staff with a holiday already booked, or more recently, an army wife whose husband was granted last minute leave from his overseas deployment, etc Noone has ever requested annual leave in advance and we have never really given it any thought, assuming that LWOP made better business sense.

But our new office manager has challenged my thinking, so my boss and I have some decisions to make before we go changing policies.  The office manager's thinking was...
1. You are paying the annual leave and loading at the current rate of pay, rather than at the rate of any pending pay-rises......makes sense.
2. You don't get staff away from the business for weeks at a time over multiple occasions during the year - I.e. 4 weeks unpaid leave plus 4 weeks annual leave.....makes sense.

How do other workplaces do it?

What would employees prefer?

What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?

Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems?

#2 msro82

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Our workplace does not offer leave in advance. We have a leave without pay option and we can also purchase additional leave (obviously advance thinking is needed here).

From a business perspective leave in advance is quite smart, what happens if that person leaves without paying it back? Does the business have a way to recoup this?

#3 Wigglemama

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

At my workplace, we have annual leave which is an entitlement, so earned and remaining in our balance after the starting date anniversary or "pro rata" annual leave, so leave currently being gained at each pay fortnight but not cleared as "entitled annual leave" until the starting date anniversary-this I guess would be "annual leave in advance". You can use it but only when you have  exhausted all your entitled annual leave.

I work for NSW Health as a midwife.

#4 SeaPrincess

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

The issue with annual leave in advance is that someone might leave the company owing money.

LWOP isn't an entitlement, so you don't have to authorise it (although under the circumstances stated, I would think that it probably would be bad form not to).  I would be more inclined to try to get LWOP viewed as something to be used in exceptional circumstances rather than being an option to access extra leave on a regular basis.

#5 -Emissary-

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

Our company offers both.

It depends on what the employee wants - whether they want to accrue the leave for another holiday down the track or whether they want to be paid so it doesn't disrupt their cash flow.

On your 2nd point - can't someone just still take 8 weeks - 4 weeks of their leave and 4 weeks of leave in advance? It's a matter of whether the boss will approve it, no?

Payroll? No idea. It's all done through the system and our payroll officers just reconcile it to ensure people did the right thing through their time sheets. The system calculates the entitlement based on whether the person used the Annual leave code or the Unpaid leave code.

I don't think my FC or my MD really cares how people accrue and request their leave. They only get concerned when people accrued too much leave and won't take it..


#6 Peppery

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

As previously stated, if an employee leaves with a negative leave balance it would be difficult to recover the money.

1. Staff are not allowed to accrue huge leave balances. We believe staff should take 4 weeks a year to recharge. Yes, pay rises increase the value but managing the amount of leave owing negates this.

2. Leave without pay is not an entitlement, if the business is not in a position to offer it then don't. We don't have blanket leave without pay rule, if a staff member asks we assess and if rejected then we explain why

#7 GoBack2Bed

Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

I've worked at places that allow you to accrue up to two weeks leave in advance on the basis that if you leave the money owing would be recouped with your two weeks notice.

Also important to note that your employer cannot force you to take lwop if the closure is enforced, ie Xmas leave because whole business closes for two weeks.

#8 au*lit

Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

I've never worked anywhere where LWOP was the norm. It's usually only been available when all other options are exhausted. For holidays, leave in advance has been preferred.

If the person leaves before earning the leave, it's taken out of their final pay.


#9 YodaTheWrinkledOne

Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

How do other workplaces do it?
In the wokrplaces I have been in, I could only access LWOP if I had exhausted all my available annual leave.  And there was/is not automatic approval for LWOP - person requesting has to make reasonable case.

DH has never been able to access annual leave in advance.  If he has no annual leave, he asks for LWOP.  He normally gets it.  (This hasn't really happened so much once he had access to long service leave)

What would employees prefer?
Probably LWOP.  Means employees are not in debt to their bosses.

What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?probably that staff just use the leave that they have an don't ask for extra.

Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems? Nope


In several workplaces I have been in, the leave loading was paid as a lump sum for all staff in a pay period each December.  You could request to have it paid in advance when taking your leave through the year, but I don't know anyone who did.  Most people liked the extra money just before Xmas.  And thus the liability of leave loading payments was discharged annually by the employer.

We are not allowed to accrue more than 8 weeks of annual leave at any one time.  They prefer it to not go past 4 week though. HR starts sending out warning letters when it hits 6 weeks and you must show how you will reduce your leave in the next 6 months.

#10 Julie3Girls

Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:00 AM

Our company recently stopped leave in advance. I'm assuming it was a bottom line on paper kind of thing ... We are part of a large organisation, lot of people. Lots of budgets, goals etc. 4 weeks leave is always budgetted in for the year and when budgets are tight, last thing they wanted to be doing was paying for people to go on holidays, getting paid when they haven't accrued the leave.

LWOP is an option when no leave is left.  But it's all at managers discretion, and excessive leave, even with your direct managers approval will be picked up on reports and will need to be justified. I think in general, the policy allows for 2 weeks of LWOP before you need to really start justifying.  Of course, that is going to depend on your position, how much work you have etc.

#11 rocketsurgeon

Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

We have LWOP, leave in advance and purchased leave. They are only options when the leave balance is exhausted. The employee has the choice and subject to organisational needs, it is not usually a problem which option they choose. With leave in advance, if the employee leaves then their final pay is adjusted.

The issue management is most concerned with is large accrual of leave. A former colleague had the dubious honour of having the highest leave balance in the organisation – 65 days. She kept ignoring HR’s recommendation to take leave, finally HR directed her to take 5 weeks in the middle of winter, to reduce it to 40. How anyone can have such a large annual leave balance is beyond me.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

WIN an exclusive performance from Sam Moran!

To celebrate the release of children?s musical series Play Along with Sam, out now on DVD, we?re giving one lucky parent the chance to have Sam perform at their child?s pre-school or day care!

Toddler freed after getting trapped in escalator

A shopping centre escalator needed to be pulled apart to free a toddler's trapped hand.

Why I'm kind of excited about my daughter's nits

Is it weird to say that I am secretly thrilled to find that my daughter Edie has nits?

Baby born at 10:11 on 12-13-14

Well, it's actually 13-12-14 to us over here. But still, Clare Elizabeth Keane's consecutive numerical birth time is pretty special.

On holding tightly and loving fiercely

We can't live in fear. This post is about Christmas and how at this time we should be celebrating life and grateful for what we have: our loved ones who we cherish fiercely.

Babies, relatives and coping with Christmas day

Everyone will love your baby but your baby may not be so happy to be passed around a lot of new people - nor may you want to feed with an audience.

Why I won't be posting pictures of my baby on Facebook

There are pros and cons to this policy.

The myths and truths of gender swaying

Here are a few popular methods hopeful parents-to-be use to try to get a baby of their preferred gender – and what an expert says about whether they really work.

10 easy DIY Christmas decoration ideas

It's officially time to get into the Christmas spirit. Why not branch out when you put up your tree this year and add a personal touch with a few DIY decorations? We've found the perfect easy-to-make ways to put more festive fever into your home.

The dangerous new trend of glucose challenge test refusal

A dangerous trend is seeing more mothers-to-be declining a relatively simple and painless test to check for gestational diabetes.

Office of Fair Trading reveals naughty toys ahead of Christmas

The Office of Fair Trading has pulled seven toys from shelves ahead of Christmas after they fail safety tests.

Video: Baby boy's trouble with twins

These twin girls will no doubt have fun fooling people in years to come, but nobody will be as confused as baby Landon.

Long-term reversible male contraceptive on its way

Men could soon have access to an injectable long-term contraceptive which works in a similar way to a vasectomy but promises to be easily reversed.

'I tried to kill my baby': one mum's story

After bathing and dressing her three-month-old son, Amanda had a rare moment alone with her baby.

Attack of the 'mummy brain'

I feel that almost every day, someone in my life - be they a friend, family member or complete stranger - feels the need to excuse my behaviour as I have other things on my mind.

Mum of baby who fell ill after drinking raw milk speaks out

A Melbourne mother has described how her son turned grey when he became seriously ill after drinking raw milk.

Australian divorce rate lowest since 1976

Modern newlyweds are now well into their 30s and marriage still offers something powerful a new book argues.

The aftermath of a traumatic birth experience

In Australia, 30 per cent of women find their birth experience traumatic, with 6 per cent going on to develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Young mum burns 'from inside-out'

A young mum is in intensive care after she took a friend's antibiotic and wound up with an ailment that is burning her body 'from the inside-out'.

The disagreement that can break a relationship

If he doesn't change his mind, all I can hope is that I will. It would be a waste to spend the rest of my marriage mourning a baby that never was.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Co-sleeping or no-sleeping? Mum videos worst nap ever

One mother's futile attempt to sleep in caught on camera in a hilarious - and very cute - video.

Why children misbehave during the festive season

While we all like to imagine the holiday season as being a fun, loving and bonding experience; often our reality is quiet different.

I was fat-shamed by my doctor

The fear of being weighed is the most significant factor in women cancelling medical appointments - and now weight-shaming has happened to me.

End of an era: no more childcare

As we reach the end of 2014, we're closing the book on many things for another year, most notably childcare. Our last child has attended childcare for the very last time.

WIN an exclusive performance from Sam Moran!

To celebrate the release of children?s musical series Play Along with Sam, out now on DVD, we?re giving one lucky parent the chance to have Sam perform at their child?s pre-school or day care!

The 7-year itch is more like the 10-year itch: study

Contrary to popular belief, making it past the seven-year mark doesn't mean your marriage will be smooth sailing from there on.

Should children be forced to sit on Santa's lap?

We teach kids it’s okay to say no if they don’t feel safe, so why do some parents force their children to climb in to Santa's lap?

Stop telling us that parenting gets harder

I’m sure that parenting will get harder. But life isn’t exactly smooth sailing for many of us right now, either.

Baby born weighing almost 14 pounds

Yes, the bouncing baby girl was born by caesarean section. And mum says no more kids.

The dummy debate

I'm the first to admit that when I used to see tiny babies with dummies in their mouths, I thought "Hmm, lazy parenting." And now I apologise.

'I thought I was an only child'

Imagine meeting your double at a school sports event, or regularly being mistaken for someone you haven't met. Separated twins Margaret and Joy tell their story.

Carers admit to force-feeding children

As Sydney grieves the loss of Sydney siege victims Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, reports have suggested that both died as heroes.

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.