Jump to content
Annual leave in advance vs LWOP
10 replies to this topic
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:08 PM
Our company has always allowed leave without pay when requested, rather than annual leave in advance. Typical scenarios have been new staff with a holiday already booked, or more recently, an army wife whose husband was granted last minute leave from his overseas deployment, etc Noone has ever requested annual leave in advance and we have never really given it any thought, assuming that LWOP made better business sense.
But our new office manager has challenged my thinking, so my boss and I have some decisions to make before we go changing policies. The office manager's thinking was...
1. You are paying the annual leave and loading at the current rate of pay, rather than at the rate of any pending pay-rises......makes sense.
2. You don't get staff away from the business for weeks at a time over multiple occasions during the year - I.e. 4 weeks unpaid leave plus 4 weeks annual leave.....makes sense.
How do other workplaces do it?
What would employees prefer?
What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?
Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems?
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM
Our workplace does not offer leave in advance. We have a leave without pay option and we can also purchase additional leave (obviously advance thinking is needed here).
From a business perspective leave in advance is quite smart, what happens if that person leaves without paying it back? Does the business have a way to recoup this?
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:25 PM
At my workplace, we have annual leave which is an entitlement, so earned and remaining in our balance after the starting date anniversary or "pro rata" annual leave, so leave currently being gained at each pay fortnight but not cleared as "entitled annual leave" until the starting date anniversary-this I guess would be "annual leave in advance". You can use it but only when you have exhausted all your entitled annual leave.
I work for NSW Health as a midwife.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:57 PM
The issue with annual leave in advance is that someone might leave the company owing money.
LWOP isn't an entitlement, so you don't have to authorise it (although under the circumstances stated, I would think that it probably would be bad form not to). I would be more inclined to try to get LWOP viewed as something to be used in exceptional circumstances rather than being an option to access extra leave on a regular basis.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:45 PM
Our company offers both.
It depends on what the employee wants - whether they want to accrue the leave for another holiday down the track or whether they want to be paid so it doesn't disrupt their cash flow.
On your 2nd point - can't someone just still take 8 weeks - 4 weeks of their leave and 4 weeks of leave in advance? It's a matter of whether the boss will approve it, no?
Payroll? No idea. It's all done through the system and our payroll officers just reconcile it to ensure people did the right thing through their time sheets. The system calculates the entitlement based on whether the person used the Annual leave code or the Unpaid leave code.
I don't think my FC or my MD really cares how people accrue and request their leave. They only get concerned when people accrued too much leave and won't take it..
Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:49 PM
As previously stated, if an employee leaves with a negative leave balance it would be difficult to recover the money.
1. Staff are not allowed to accrue huge leave balances. We believe staff should take 4 weeks a year to recharge. Yes, pay rises increase the value but managing the amount of leave owing negates this.
2. Leave without pay is not an entitlement, if the business is not in a position to offer it then don't. We don't have blanket leave without pay rule, if a staff member asks we assess and if rejected then we explain why
Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:01 PM
I've worked at places that allow you to accrue up to two weeks leave in advance on the basis that if you leave the money owing would be recouped with your two weeks notice.
Also important to note that your employer cannot force you to take lwop if the closure is enforced, ie Xmas leave because whole business closes for two weeks.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:14 PM
I've never worked anywhere where LWOP was the norm. It's usually only been available when all other options are exhausted. For holidays, leave in advance has been preferred.
If the person leaves before earning the leave, it's taken out of their final pay.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06 PM
How do other workplaces do it?
In the wokrplaces I have been in, I could only access LWOP if I had exhausted all my available annual leave. And there was/is not automatic approval for LWOP - person requesting has to make reasonable case.
DH has never been able to access annual leave in advance. If he has no annual leave, he asks for LWOP. He normally gets it. (This hasn't really happened so much once he had access to long service leave)
What would employees prefer?
Probably LWOP. Means employees are not in debt to their bosses.
What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?probably that staff just use the leave that they have an don't ask for extra.
Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems? Nope
In several workplaces I have been in, the leave loading was paid as a lump sum for all staff in a pay period each December. You could request to have it paid in advance when taking your leave through the year, but I don't know anyone who did. Most people liked the extra money just before Xmas. And thus the liability of leave loading payments was discharged annually by the employer.
We are not allowed to accrue more than 8 weeks of annual leave at any one time. They prefer it to not go past 4 week though. HR starts sending out warning letters when it hits 6 weeks and you must show how you will reduce your leave in the next 6 months.
Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:00 AM
Our company recently stopped leave in advance. I'm assuming it was a bottom line on paper kind of thing ... We are part of a large organisation, lot of people. Lots of budgets, goals etc. 4 weeks leave is always budgetted in for the year and when budgets are tight, last thing they wanted to be doing was paying for people to go on holidays, getting paid when they haven't accrued the leave.
LWOP is an option when no leave is left. But it's all at managers discretion, and excessive leave, even with your direct managers approval will be picked up on reports and will need to be justified. I think in general, the policy allows for 2 weeks of LWOP before you need to really start justifying. Of course, that is going to depend on your position, how much work you have etc.
Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:46 AM
We have LWOP, leave in advance and purchased leave. They are only options when the leave balance is exhausted. The employee has the choice and subject to organisational needs, it is not usually a problem which option they choose. With leave in advance, if the employee leaves then their final pay is adjusted.
The issue management is most concerned with is large accrual of leave. A former colleague had the dubious honour of having the highest leave balance in the organisation – 65 days. She kept ignoring HR’s recommendation to take leave, finally HR directed her to take 5 weeks in the middle of winter, to reduce it to 40. How anyone can have such a large annual leave balance is beyond me.
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.
You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.
A jacket similar to the one found with the remains of a brutally murdered little girl in South Australia has been identified on eBay.
Shelley Parker had to keep driving buses until the date her baby was due and will have to rush back to work at the end of this week after being denied paid parental leave on a "technicality".
It has to be the most original way ever of promoting a children's book donation day.
Some parents who conceived through a sperm donor will be wary of telling the child, while others prefer to deal with it early on. But recent research suggests it makes little difference either way.
We've probably all seen a passed-out bridesmaid at one wedding or another, but it usually happens towards the end of the night.
Pregnant TV meteorologist Katie Fehlinger has hit back at haters who called her a "sausage in casing".
I didn't want to say anything negative to my pregnant friend, but I wish I'd been more honest.
Harper had seen rain from the comfort of indoors before, but had never had the pleasure of being outside and experiencing it first hand.
Many people suppose that it must be much more tiring to have a baby in middle age, but all the mothers in the playground look exhausted, whatever their age.
An American reality TV star has been busted with a cheating website account, according to US media.
A little girl is more alert and starting to talk after being hit by a car a week ago, but still faces a long recovery.
Q: My almost-3-year-old is starting to figure out that he can lie when asked if he ripped the book, threw the food, hit his brother, etc. Totally normal, I know. How do we respond?
A mum-to-be experiences the frustration of dealing with Centrelink, myGov and everything in between.
Singer Kelly Clarkson has announced she is pregnant with her second child during a concert in Los Angeles.
At least three sites are republishing Ashley Madison's user data on the public-facing internet.
There are a fair few ways to distract yourself and beat pains while in labour, but it's probably a rare woman who chooses her dance her way through it.
Baby Jacob, whose photo of him born at just 27 weeks was deemed 'too graphic' for a fundraising site, has died.
Niall Pilkington's death last summer apparently raised little alarm in Bellefontaine, Ohio. Tragic accidents happen, after all.
When a group of researchers studied nearly 3500 mothers and their babies, they noticed a curious pattern.
Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.
Top 5 Articles
Thirty seconds was all it took to turn a shopping trip into my worst nightmare.
George has overtaken William in the official rankings of most popular British baby names - and Game of Thrones is still having an impact on parents.
What's more important, a baby or a baseball? That's a question this dad seems to struggle with.
It's not often you hear the words labour and luxury in the same sentence but for some, a 5-star start to parenthood is exactly what they seek. And with a number of private hospitals now offering packages which include a post-birth stay at a sumptuous first class resort, many mums are choosing to recover in style.
Most women carry a smidge of baby weight after giving birth. If you're lucky enough to have an older child in the house, they can keep you on track with your weight loss goals.
Is it too soon to be reading to my two-month-old son? If not, what should I read?
Sibling rivalry is an act of competition, but if your children feel involved and special, this type of jealousy will be minimised.
I remember when I was trying to decide if I could combine motherhood and furthering my university education.
To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW
A mother has had a frantic race to the hospital after her daughter was hit by a car, just four weeks after her infant son died.
A six-month-old baby girl is trapped in the Thai capital in a bitter custody wrangle between her Thai surrogate mother and her biological father.
A mother of six has been denied access to IVF treatment in order to have another child over concerns about her parenting skills.
Exhausted parents from around the world are singing the praises of a "miracle" book which promises to put even the most restless child to sleep in just minutes.
Parenthood can make you feel bad, but you're not alone.
The British royal family criticized paparazzi on Friday for what it called their increasingly dangerous attempts to photograph young Prince George.
"Anti-vaxxers" face not being able to send their children to childcare centres or kindergarten if they refuse to have them immunised.
Giving birth in a hospital surrounded by medical experts is tough enough, but some women deliver babies without a clean sheet to lie on.
When their son Jacob was born at just 27 weeks, Christina and Jeff Hinks were thrown into an uncertain world.
Bugaboo sure likes to keep things fresh, and with the Australian spring/summer season coming up, there are two new Bugaboo pram releases.
Mum's room or their own room? Cot or bassinets? Deciding where twins will sleep can be tricky.
Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!