Jump to content
Annual leave in advance vs LWOP
10 replies to this topic
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:08 PM
Our company has always allowed leave without pay when requested, rather than annual leave in advance. Typical scenarios have been new staff with a holiday already booked, or more recently, an army wife whose husband was granted last minute leave from his overseas deployment, etc Noone has ever requested annual leave in advance and we have never really given it any thought, assuming that LWOP made better business sense.
But our new office manager has challenged my thinking, so my boss and I have some decisions to make before we go changing policies. The office manager's thinking was...
1. You are paying the annual leave and loading at the current rate of pay, rather than at the rate of any pending pay-rises......makes sense.
2. You don't get staff away from the business for weeks at a time over multiple occasions during the year - I.e. 4 weeks unpaid leave plus 4 weeks annual leave.....makes sense.
How do other workplaces do it?
What would employees prefer?
What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?
Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems?
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM
Our workplace does not offer leave in advance. We have a leave without pay option and we can also purchase additional leave (obviously advance thinking is needed here).
From a business perspective leave in advance is quite smart, what happens if that person leaves without paying it back? Does the business have a way to recoup this?
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:25 PM
At my workplace, we have annual leave which is an entitlement, so earned and remaining in our balance after the starting date anniversary or "pro rata" annual leave, so leave currently being gained at each pay fortnight but not cleared as "entitled annual leave" until the starting date anniversary-this I guess would be "annual leave in advance". You can use it but only when you have exhausted all your entitled annual leave.
I work for NSW Health as a midwife.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:57 PM
The issue with annual leave in advance is that someone might leave the company owing money.
LWOP isn't an entitlement, so you don't have to authorise it (although under the circumstances stated, I would think that it probably would be bad form not to). I would be more inclined to try to get LWOP viewed as something to be used in exceptional circumstances rather than being an option to access extra leave on a regular basis.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:45 PM
Our company offers both.
It depends on what the employee wants - whether they want to accrue the leave for another holiday down the track or whether they want to be paid so it doesn't disrupt their cash flow.
On your 2nd point - can't someone just still take 8 weeks - 4 weeks of their leave and 4 weeks of leave in advance? It's a matter of whether the boss will approve it, no?
Payroll? No idea. It's all done through the system and our payroll officers just reconcile it to ensure people did the right thing through their time sheets. The system calculates the entitlement based on whether the person used the Annual leave code or the Unpaid leave code.
I don't think my FC or my MD really cares how people accrue and request their leave. They only get concerned when people accrued too much leave and won't take it..
Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:49 PM
As previously stated, if an employee leaves with a negative leave balance it would be difficult to recover the money.
1. Staff are not allowed to accrue huge leave balances. We believe staff should take 4 weeks a year to recharge. Yes, pay rises increase the value but managing the amount of leave owing negates this.
2. Leave without pay is not an entitlement, if the business is not in a position to offer it then don't. We don't have blanket leave without pay rule, if a staff member asks we assess and if rejected then we explain why
Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:01 PM
I've worked at places that allow you to accrue up to two weeks leave in advance on the basis that if you leave the money owing would be recouped with your two weeks notice.
Also important to note that your employer cannot force you to take lwop if the closure is enforced, ie Xmas leave because whole business closes for two weeks.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:14 PM
I've never worked anywhere where LWOP was the norm. It's usually only been available when all other options are exhausted. For holidays, leave in advance has been preferred.
If the person leaves before earning the leave, it's taken out of their final pay.
Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06 PM
How do other workplaces do it?
In the wokrplaces I have been in, I could only access LWOP if I had exhausted all my available annual leave. And there was/is not automatic approval for LWOP - person requesting has to make reasonable case.
DH has never been able to access annual leave in advance. If he has no annual leave, he asks for LWOP. He normally gets it. (This hasn't really happened so much once he had access to long service leave)
What would employees prefer?
Probably LWOP. Means employees are not in debt to their bosses.
What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?probably that staff just use the leave that they have an don't ask for extra.
Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems? Nope
In several workplaces I have been in, the leave loading was paid as a lump sum for all staff in a pay period each December. You could request to have it paid in advance when taking your leave through the year, but I don't know anyone who did. Most people liked the extra money just before Xmas. And thus the liability of leave loading payments was discharged annually by the employer.
We are not allowed to accrue more than 8 weeks of annual leave at any one time. They prefer it to not go past 4 week though. HR starts sending out warning letters when it hits 6 weeks and you must show how you will reduce your leave in the next 6 months.
Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:00 AM
Our company recently stopped leave in advance. I'm assuming it was a bottom line on paper kind of thing ... We are part of a large organisation, lot of people. Lots of budgets, goals etc. 4 weeks leave is always budgetted in for the year and when budgets are tight, last thing they wanted to be doing was paying for people to go on holidays, getting paid when they haven't accrued the leave.
LWOP is an option when no leave is left. But it's all at managers discretion, and excessive leave, even with your direct managers approval will be picked up on reports and will need to be justified. I think in general, the policy allows for 2 weeks of LWOP before you need to really start justifying. Of course, that is going to depend on your position, how much work you have etc.
Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:46 AM
We have LWOP, leave in advance and purchased leave. They are only options when the leave balance is exhausted. The employee has the choice and subject to organisational needs, it is not usually a problem which option they choose. With leave in advance, if the employee leaves then their final pay is adjusted.
The issue management is most concerned with is large accrual of leave. A former colleague had the dubious honour of having the highest leave balance in the organisation – 65 days. She kept ignoring HR’s recommendation to take leave, finally HR directed her to take 5 weeks in the middle of winter, to reduce it to 40. How anyone can have such a large annual leave balance is beyond me.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
Kelly Clarkson has shown off the first photos of her son, Remington Alexander Blackstock.
Birth is an unpredictable, mysterious process that intrigues us all, and there is a lot of misinformation out there.
A US mother has been shot by her toddler while driving on a highway in Wisconsin.
The seven-minute-work out is old news. Research shows the effectiveness of going hell-for-leather for just one minute.
Pregnant woman in country Australia will help Adelaide researchers figure out why cases of type 1 diabetes have doubled over the past two decades.
It's the perfect solution to combat those toddler meltdowns when they no longer want to be in a pram but can't walk long distances.
A pit bull mix that fatally bit a 3-day-old infant last week has been euthanised, authorities said.
While meeting with a lactation consultant can make an enormous difference to a new mother, it's not a service that is available through the public health system.
Members of a popular forum are fiercely debating whether it is acceptable to dislike a friend's child.
A pregnant woman who unexpectedly gave birth on a flight has named her new baby after the airline, Jetstar.
Children living in foster care can feel like their future is less than clear. But that uncertainty disappears the day they are adopted by their "forever family"
When the cramps started to kick in, Klara Dollan just assumed a painful period was starting.
Kerryn has a unusual present planned for daughter Imi's 13th birthday celebrations - she hopes to be able to be able to give the soon-to-be the teenager her first ever photo of her dad.
Our houses are cleaner than ever before. But how clean is too clean? Could a sterile home be putting your family's health at risk?
Here's a puzzle that grows with them; the Puzzle Grow Pack by Millions of Monkeys.
If you grew up in the 90s you might want to look to the genre of Britpop music for baby name inspiration.
When you catch a bug that causes acute infectious gastroenteritis (gastro), your stomach and intestinal tract become inflamed, causing diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramping and pain. The last thing you probably feel like doing is eating.
Would I have survived if I hadn't crossed that street?
Caitlin is a firm believer in the importance of immunisation to protect children from harmful and deadly diseases.
There is no make-up or special outfits and hairdos, but the five-year-old boy who took this picture captured the essence of motherhood as well as any professional photographer.
Studies have shown that infants in the first months of life try to avoid dealing with social wrongdoers - for example, sharing less with them and helping them less - and they expect others to, too.
Top 5 Articles
Bethani Webb was excited to find out she was pregnant, but the first time mum did not realise she was carrying four babies not one.
A Sydney cafe is offering breastfeeding mums free cups of tea in a bid to show support for the right of women to nurse their babies wherever they choose.
Jamie Oliver, who considered a vasectomy, is to be a father again. A fellow dad reflects on his own decision 11 years ago
To everyone's surprise, Kristen Miller "kept doing better each day", keeping her second baby safe.
Before my son was born I was given a lovely baby book full of blank pages waiting to be filled with weights and heights and first words.
There is no doubt seeing their child smile for the first time is an unforgettable moment for parents everywhere.
When Alison Johnson put her 18-month-old Caleb down for a nap, she had no reason to believe her son was in any danger.
All my panic and tears aside, my biggest question looking back is about the kind of security measures used in the maternity ward.
Everyone who visits a mum in hospital in the days following childbirth wants to get a photo with the new baby.
Finally, there's a way to keep warm while breastfeeding through winter.
What to do with this information? My advice would be to try not to think about it during the throes of passion.
From niplash to tight boobs, biting to milk supply issues, Pinky McKay looks at common breastfeeding issues and how to solve them.
Six months on we're all still alive, and the more we get to know each other the easier the days become.
Kirsty Carrington thought nothing of giving her newborn son a kiss, little did she know it would leave the baby fighting for life.
After children, 'me time' looks a little different.
A stroller can make or break travelling with a baby or toddler. Here are 15 great single travel stroller options.
It always pays to remind yourself of how terrific toddlers can be - they're little like this for such a short time
This is the comp for you! We have $800 worth of Myer gift cards and boxes of Australian Bananas to be won. Entry is simple: just post a pic of your little one enjoying a banana in the comments of the FB post to enter.