Jump to content

Annual leave in advance vs LWOP


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Lees75

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

Our company has always allowed leave without pay when requested, rather than annual leave in advance. Typical scenarios have been new staff with a holiday already booked, or more recently, an army wife whose husband was granted last minute leave from his overseas deployment, etc Noone has ever requested annual leave in advance and we have never really given it any thought, assuming that LWOP made better business sense.

But our new office manager has challenged my thinking, so my boss and I have some decisions to make before we go changing policies.  The office manager's thinking was...
1. You are paying the annual leave and loading at the current rate of pay, rather than at the rate of any pending pay-rises......makes sense.
2. You don't get staff away from the business for weeks at a time over multiple occasions during the year - I.e. 4 weeks unpaid leave plus 4 weeks annual leave.....makes sense.

How do other workplaces do it?

What would employees prefer?

What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?

Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems?

#2 msro82

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Our workplace does not offer leave in advance. We have a leave without pay option and we can also purchase additional leave (obviously advance thinking is needed here).

From a business perspective leave in advance is quite smart, what happens if that person leaves without paying it back? Does the business have a way to recoup this?

#3 Wigglemama

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

At my workplace, we have annual leave which is an entitlement, so earned and remaining in our balance after the starting date anniversary or "pro rata" annual leave, so leave currently being gained at each pay fortnight but not cleared as "entitled annual leave" until the starting date anniversary-this I guess would be "annual leave in advance". You can use it but only when you have  exhausted all your entitled annual leave.

I work for NSW Health as a midwife.

#4 SeaPrincess

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

The issue with annual leave in advance is that someone might leave the company owing money.

LWOP isn't an entitlement, so you don't have to authorise it (although under the circumstances stated, I would think that it probably would be bad form not to).  I would be more inclined to try to get LWOP viewed as something to be used in exceptional circumstances rather than being an option to access extra leave on a regular basis.

#5 -Emissary-

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

Our company offers both.

It depends on what the employee wants - whether they want to accrue the leave for another holiday down the track or whether they want to be paid so it doesn't disrupt their cash flow.

On your 2nd point - can't someone just still take 8 weeks - 4 weeks of their leave and 4 weeks of leave in advance? It's a matter of whether the boss will approve it, no?

Payroll? No idea. It's all done through the system and our payroll officers just reconcile it to ensure people did the right thing through their time sheets. The system calculates the entitlement based on whether the person used the Annual leave code or the Unpaid leave code.

I don't think my FC or my MD really cares how people accrue and request their leave. They only get concerned when people accrued too much leave and won't take it..


#6 Peppery

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

As previously stated, if an employee leaves with a negative leave balance it would be difficult to recover the money.

1. Staff are not allowed to accrue huge leave balances. We believe staff should take 4 weeks a year to recharge. Yes, pay rises increase the value but managing the amount of leave owing negates this.

2. Leave without pay is not an entitlement, if the business is not in a position to offer it then don't. We don't have blanket leave without pay rule, if a staff member asks we assess and if rejected then we explain why

#7 GoBack2Bed

Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

I've worked at places that allow you to accrue up to two weeks leave in advance on the basis that if you leave the money owing would be recouped with your two weeks notice.

Also important to note that your employer cannot force you to take lwop if the closure is enforced, ie Xmas leave because whole business closes for two weeks.

#8 au*lit

Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

I've never worked anywhere where LWOP was the norm. It's usually only been available when all other options are exhausted. For holidays, leave in advance has been preferred.

If the person leaves before earning the leave, it's taken out of their final pay.


#9 Queen Yoda

Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

How do other workplaces do it?
In the wokrplaces I have been in, I could only access LWOP if I had exhausted all my available annual leave.  And there was/is not automatic approval for LWOP - person requesting has to make reasonable case.

DH has never been able to access annual leave in advance.  If he has no annual leave, he asks for LWOP.  He normally gets it.  (This hasn't really happened so much once he had access to long service leave)

What would employees prefer?
Probably LWOP.  Means employees are not in debt to their bosses.

What do managers/payroll/business owners prefer?probably that staff just use the leave that they have an don't ask for extra.

Does anyone have any links to info comparing the 2 systems? Nope


In several workplaces I have been in, the leave loading was paid as a lump sum for all staff in a pay period each December.  You could request to have it paid in advance when taking your leave through the year, but I don't know anyone who did.  Most people liked the extra money just before Xmas.  And thus the liability of leave loading payments was discharged annually by the employer.

We are not allowed to accrue more than 8 weeks of annual leave at any one time.  They prefer it to not go past 4 week though. HR starts sending out warning letters when it hits 6 weeks and you must show how you will reduce your leave in the next 6 months.

#10 Julie3Girls

Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:00 AM

Our company recently stopped leave in advance. I'm assuming it was a bottom line on paper kind of thing ... We are part of a large organisation, lot of people. Lots of budgets, goals etc. 4 weeks leave is always budgetted in for the year and when budgets are tight, last thing they wanted to be doing was paying for people to go on holidays, getting paid when they haven't accrued the leave.

LWOP is an option when no leave is left.  But it's all at managers discretion, and excessive leave, even with your direct managers approval will be picked up on reports and will need to be justified. I think in general, the policy allows for 2 weeks of LWOP before you need to really start justifying.  Of course, that is going to depend on your position, how much work you have etc.

#11 rocketsurgeon

Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

We have LWOP, leave in advance and purchased leave. They are only options when the leave balance is exhausted. The employee has the choice and subject to organisational needs, it is not usually a problem which option they choose. With leave in advance, if the employee leaves then their final pay is adjusted.

The issue management is most concerned with is large accrual of leave. A former colleague had the dubious honour of having the highest leave balance in the organisation – 65 days. She kept ignoring HR’s recommendation to take leave, finally HR directed her to take 5 weeks in the middle of winter, to reduce it to 40. How anyone can have such a large annual leave balance is beyond me.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Ada Nicodemou: 'I can never be completely happy again'

Home and Away actress Ada Nicodemou has opened up about the loss of her stillborn baby.

10 things to consider when you're thinking about trying for a baby

Before you start tracking your menstrual cycle and reading up on the best positions to get pregnant, there are a few other things you may want to consider.

Baby Gammy's dad tries to claim charity money

The biological father of baby Gammy has reportedly tried to access charity money raised for the little boy's medical costs.

How special surgery and IVF can create a post-vasectomy baby

Cricket legend Glenn McGrath and his second wife Sara are expecting their first child together, thanks to IVF and a delicate surgical sperm retrieval process that helped the couple to conceive.

Belle Gibson's mother 'disgusted and embarrassed'

The mother of disgraced wellness blogger Belle Gibson has accused her daughter of lying about her childhood in an attempt to garner public sympathy.

Life On Mars

It's men who need 'retraining', not women

We are all responsible for our own behaviour. Telling victims to harden up is wrong.

Doctor's mobile phone 'left inside c-section mum'

A new mum claims a doctor left his mobile phone inside her after delivering her baby via caesarean section.

I'm a mum and I'm following my dreams

I want my kids to know that no matter what happens in life, you can still be who it is that you've always wanted to be.

Those first daycare days

I had this innate 'mum' moment the other day.

'If one person had listened, my life would have been so different'

Katherine's father will die in prison for the horrifying sexual abuse of his daughter. Yet she is the one with the true life sentence.

Couple to celebrate terminally ill baby's birthday in unique way

Baby Jai Bishop has lived at Starship Hospital for the past seven months, with his parents flying back and forth from Hokitika, 1100km away, to be by his side.

This new plan undermines breastfeeding and baby health at everyone's expense

Mothers, babies, the health system and the wider society are going to pay the price of this new budget.

Trying to understand why your baby is upset

Working out what?s underlying your baby's fussiness can be a case of trial and error. Here are a few common causes and how you can remedy each one.

When those you love judge your parenting

In today's society, never has it been harder to parent without judgment. But what about when judgment is coming from closer to home?

Don't play the victim blame game with family violence

It's not a woman's job to teach violent men how to behave.

11 truths about having two under two

When I told my mothers? group that my husband and I had started trying for our second baby they told me I was crazy. Now I can see why.

'How do you say goodbye to someone you've only just started to get to know?'

New mum Sarah Sutton was faced with a shattering scenario no person should have to endure.

It's a ... boy! Couple welcomes son number 13

"It's a boy!" That's the phrase Kateri Schwandt has heard in labour delivery ward for the 13th time in her life.

Six reasons to go for a walk

Can't find time to get to the gym? It could be just as beneficial to put your baby in the stroller and go for a walk.

Seven questions you should be asking about your health cover

If the last time you assessed your health cover was five years ago, there?s a chance it may no longer suit your needs. To ensure it?s still right for your family, click here for seven questions to ask.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Where are the childcare places?

It?s all very well to encourage women to work if they choose to, but how can the measures lead to increased workforce participation when women are once again left holding the baby?

The pain of not having babies and not knowing why

After seven years of wishing, hoping, crying, punching pillows and shouting "why me?!", the end result is more than I ever thought possible.

Getting your family finances in order

Whether you're after a new car for a growing family, a bigger house, or are just fixing up your finances, here are the basics on borrowing.

Mum shares graphic selfie to warn against tanning

A mum has shared a graphic photo of her skin cancer treatment as a warning to others.

Does parenthood make us happier?

We can certainly gain higher levels of happiness when we become parents, but the trick is to not get overwhelmed by the pressures of raising our kids.

No, having a dog is not like having a human child

It's obvious these people dote on their pets, but they're barking up the wrong tree.

Toddler styling

Seven things my toddler taught me about my home

My standards at home were never that high but having a two-year-old has taught me to be cool with chaos.

Australia's top baby names of 2014

The numbers have been crunched and it's official: Australian parents are having a bit of an 'O' moment.

How to set up the perfect nursery for your baby

You'll soon be meeting your baby, but you've got one big task to get done first: setting up a comfy, calming nursery you'll both be able to enjoy.

Childcare rebate: tougher rules for stay-at-home mums

A new form of activity testing will be introduced to ensure the highest subsidies go to parents who contribute the most to the workforce.

The women who desperately need more support in pregnancy

For women suffering from chronic morning sickness or hyperemesis gravidarum, pregnancy can be the roller coaster from hell.

When labour doesn't happen and you're induced

I never actually went into labour - so by 42 weeks I was booked in for induction.

Mum's grief for triplets inspires change

The death of Sophie Smith's triplet baby boys has motivated the half-marathon mother and her team to raise $1.25 million for charity.

The best advice for treating head lice

Just like a horror movie ... THEY'RE BAAAAAACK. So what works in treating and avoiding head lice and nits?

Overdue and over it

A watched womb never labours ... or at least mine didn't.

Parenting an early walker

Watching your child take their first wobbly steps is one of the best parenting highs you'll ever experience. But with that high comes a new reality.

Baby-led weaning worked for us

My baby wasn't interested in food - until we tried something new. Now she's eating it all, and it often comes from my plate.

'Paralysed bride' becomes a mum

Rachelle Friedman Chapman was preparing to marry the man of her dreams when tragedy struck four years ago.

 

Top baby names

Baby Names

The numbers are in and we can now bring you the 2014 top baby name list for Australia.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.