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For those who have done control crying/settling
What about day sleeps?


20 replies to this topic

#1 Kay1

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

PLEASE I only want to hear from people who have used cc and do NOT want a debate about it.

After much soul searching, research and trying every other method I decided to use cc with DS3 the other night. He is 6 months old.

Basically what was needed to settle him was escalating and escalating to the point where I did not know where to go next and he was probably as confused as me. Bedtimes were taking upwards of an hour of me sitting with him, patting, rocking etc (feeding to sleep doesn't work) while my other kids were being ignored. He was also waking constantly all night long. However he was sleeping well during the day. Anyway so after completely running out of strategies the other night I bit the bullet and started cc which I hate doing but it worked really well and quickly to establish healthy sleeping patterns in my older kids.

The first night he was asleep within an hour (with me going in every 5-10 minutes to reassure him). This is about how long it takes him with me there anyway. Big difference being that he slept for 7 hours that night, whereas before he was waking every 45 mins til midnight then three hourly) so major yippee for me.

The next day I did the same for his day sleeps and he whinged softly for a minute and went to sleep. Second night same thing, a minor whinge for about 2 minutes and then he was asleep original.gif. He wouldn't go to sleep after his 3am feed however so I did it again and he was awake for about an hour and a half (not crying all the time though) and finally went back to sleep at about 6am.

Today he self settled for his nap this morning and all was good. This afternoon however he would not settle despite being obviously tired. I called it quits after 30 minutes as he was just getting more and more upset. I feel that I should be consistent with all sleeps to get through this stage as quickly as possible but Robin Barker (who's method I am loosely following) says not to bother doing it during the day. Won't it be confusing though if I rock/pat him during the day but not at night? As it is I feel like I set us back by getting him up after 30 minutes.

I can't remember what I did with my other two.

Edited by Kay1, 05 February 2013 - 03:43 PM.


#2 lady lady

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Kay1 @ 05/02/2013, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I feel that I should be consistent with all sleeps to get through this stage as quickly as possible but Robin Barker (who's method I am loosely following) says not to bother doing it during the day.



I'm just reading E.Pantley and her method suggests the same for dummy removal - focus on night sleeping/ removal rather than day naps, particularly if they are a bad day sleeper...

I think it's to maximise the amount of day sleep they get to help the night sleep (if that makes sense?)  rather than spend an extra 10-30 min settling them during the day let them settle ASAP during the day so they actually get some sleep during the day....

efs

Edited by lady lady, 05 February 2013 - 04:13 PM.


#3 katniss

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

I've also been told it's okay to focus on day or night because when they sleep better for one, it generally follows through - I guess the "sleep promotes sleep" theory.

Sometimes you do have to pull back if bub is getting too upset then try again next time. Also remember when they get overtired, it's harder for them to sleep.

#4 mandala

Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

The sleep school advice is to try for a while - e.g. 30 minutes, or whatever you can bear - then get up, have a quiet play, some cuddles, then try again. Similarly for night sleep, but the only interaction on offer is what you'd normally have at that time of night - so dim lighting, quiet sounds, no playing.

However, I found during the day that I would just tend to try for a while - maybe 10-20 minutes, and then get up, making sure I brought the next sleep closer to make sure awake time wasn't too long.  ETA: Occasionally I will try again 20 minutes later for a nap if he's really, really ratty or if there's a good reason like a late night coming up.

Also, even with a 'good' sleeper now, we have good days and bad days. At his best, DS would have at least one day a week where a nap just didn't happen;

Edited by KRT, 06 February 2013 - 02:32 PM.


#5 axiomae

Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

I did the responsive settling thing for day sleeps at the same time as night sleeps. I did it for all sleeps. Night sleeps she was self settling earlier than day sleeps, but now she just rolls over and goes to sleep (or chats to her teddy, so cute I can see her on the video monitor) for all sleeps without any issue. I never heard about not bothering for day sleeps, although they did take longer for them (about 2 weeks) instead of a few days for the night sleeps.

Well worth it though! Before that she was literally NOT sleeping at all during the day, no amount of rocking, bouncing, feeding, walking could settle her. Such a nice change. I wish you well original.gif

#6 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:21 PM

I never did CC as such so can't comment on that. I know you've had a really tough time with your little ones sleep.

My son has been a shocking sleeper and intense breastfeeder but has dramatically improved in the last month.

I started tackling his day sleep and then a few weeks later his night sleep improved, so personally I would be tackling both for consistency especially if he sleeps in the one place for all his sleeps.

Good luck op.

#7 Genabee

Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

DD was a shocker for sleep. And by 7 months I was climbing the walls so we did cc - not before doing sleep school twice. And what do you know, it worked!

Because I was beyond sleep deprived at the time, I concentrated on days first. Once I got her days sort of happening, then we tackled the nights. I found also, that I needed to be really ready to deal with the nights. It was intense for a good week, but then afterwards she seemed to get it.

I was feeding every 2 hours through the night, so I started by settling what was every second feed - so stretching her out to 4 hours between feeds, then eventually it was one feed, then none.

I would let her call out for up to 20 minutes (often it would be less because I would cave before then), then go in and pat her in the cot until she calmed, then leave again - never staying in there longer than 10 minutes. Rinse, wash, repeat. Sometimes she would settle herself before it got to 20 minutes, so I wouldn't have to go in to her.

Even now at 20 months, she occasionally calls out. I always give her the opportunity to settle herself (find her dummy probably), before going in. When she does get really bad, we have tried having her sleep in our bed or rocking to sleep etc. but it seems to make her worse. She definitely settles faster on her own.

Good luck OP. It is hard.

#8 littlemissmessy

Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

I did the CC at 9 months and still breastfed DS to sleep for his day sleeps because I also found the CC wasn't working in the day. When I finally weaned him at 14 months, for his day sleep I laid down with him and read a book to him until he dropped off, unfortunately this is really no help with your 6mo.

#9 fun_fairz

Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

I think the suggestion to focus on one or the other is for your own benefit. It can get very tiring working on it multiple times a day.

As for my experience, I would leave for up to a period of time or intensity of crying. If this did not work I would go in and try and settle in cot, patting worked wonders with my first, rocking the cot with second. If baby still will not sleep and I felt they were still really tired I would pop in pram and go for a walk so they at least got some sleep.

I think babies recognise the difference between naps and night sleep so I would not worry too much about it. Especially if it only happens occasionally.

#10 Phoenix Blue

Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

We recently did it with DD at 7 months. We started with first day sleep and were consistent from that moment on. I did have a sleep consultant come to help for 3 hours the first time.

Her advice is Calm and Consistent.

First sleep it took almost an hour for her to go to sleep, and then she slept for about an hour. 2nd sleep was a bit shorter. Couldn't get her down for the 3rd sleep - tried for about 40 mins I think.

Work out your own limits. I tend to go through our cycle (we do then 2min, 4min, 6 min, 8min, 10min) and if no sleep then I get her up if a day sleep, and try again either at next sleep time, or in an hour. If it's night time, I usually BF or cuddle or whatever after that time.

It took us about 3 days before she was settling pretty easily (only a returning to the room once to put and settle) but it took about 2 weeks before she would put herself to sleep.

The best advice I got was to do 3 sleep until they are almost 9 months. I thought this was too many, but DD thrives having the third sleep (only a catnap) at around 5pm - then goes to bed around 7:30-8pm. She sleeps so much more solidly then if she misses the 3rd nap. So my best advise would be to do the 3rd nap. It's a pain settling for 3 naps a day, but the night sleep makes up for it!!

Good luck.



#11 Ice Queen

Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:11 AM

QUOTE (Sunnycat @ 06/02/2013, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I started tackling his day sleep and then a few weeks later his night sleep improved, so personally I would be tackling both for consistency especially if he sleeps in the one place for all his sleeps.


I did is with DS too.  I found that when I had established a better routine with his day sleeps and self settling, the night sleep improved dramatically on its own.

I did RB's method with my DD and it worked a treat but she was pretty easy to begin with.  I really liked RB's approach.

#12 Kay1

Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

Thanks everyone. He's been doing so well.

Yesterday he settled for both day naps and night time without a peep! Such a change I was in shock. He also slept for long blocks for his naps. Because of that I couldn't get a third nap in but he settled perfectly at bed time.

He woke twice for a feed but settled again after so that's fine.

Today he again settled perfectly this morning for his nap and slept a long time. I think I need to wake him earlier as I'm trying to get him down for a nap before school pick up now and its not happening. sad.gif Such a juggle. I have always been of the 'never wake a baby' school but I think I need to with him to get him to sleep in the afternoon in time for pick ups.

#13 axiomae

Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

That's great to hear Kay1 - I hope that it continues!

I found that once DD was going to sleep on her own consistently I could wake her from naps if need be. It became easy to juggle my days based on the family's needs because I knew that she would go to sleep after a certain amount of awake time.

Some days if I wake her in the morning after a catnap she will have a long midday sleep then another arvo catnap. Otherwise she will have a long sleep morning and afternoon. I prefer the two naps, but will juggle if I absolutley HAVE to.

#14 Kay1

Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

Another question about controlled crying. I really only did it to get him settling well which so far is going really well. I am not hell bent on getting him to sleep through the night or anything. My other two didn't til after 12 months and I'm happy to keep feeding at night....as long as its one or two not four or five like before.

So obviously I feed him if he wakes after 5-7 hours (like he has been since we started cc) but what if he wakes earlier? Tonight he woke after 2.5 hours. I am pretty sure he wasn't hungry but I fed him as its the quickest way back to sleep.

Will this confuse matters do you think? My thinking is that once he is self settling the sleeping through will develop naturally when he's ready but I'm a little concerned that I'll be causing a night waking problem by feeding him so readily. Did anyone else do it this way with success?

(He doesn't respond to patting or anything else when he wakes at night and he won't take a dummy.)

Edited by Kay1, 08 February 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#15 bubsamullion

Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

I recently had a fairly similar problem with my DS waking frequently through the night and ended up calling a parent helpline for some advice. The lady told me that at this age (he's same age as well) he should be able to last to just either side of midnight so if he wakes first try and resettle, then try giving him some cooled boiled water and resettle. If either of these don't work then he probably is hungry. I tried this the first night with water and since then he hasn't woken for a feed before midnight. I was actually quite shocked at how well it worked. It may just have been a coincidence, who knows but you could always give it a go and hopefully it will work for you too!  original.gif

#16 Kay1

Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:56 AM

Thanks that's a good idea. It was pretty hot last night so he may well have just been thirsty.

#17 premmie_29weeks

Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

I've done cc for both my kids. Ds1 was a bit of a shocker as a sleeper, I fed him overnight till he was 8 months. Generally he would sleep soundly from 7 till midnight, then I'd settle with a water bottle and feed him a formula bottle at 4ish most mornings, then it would be hit and miss whether he went back to sleep at all...I'd often be up from 3.30am....not good. I finally just got sick of it, he was over 10kgs at 6 months and there was no need to feed over night.

With him it took a single night of cc, same intervals as you have done. He has slept thru I'd say 99% of nights since, unless there was teething, or sickness to contend with. I also found that sleeping thru meant his day sleeps improved on their own steam ( he is nearly two and half). He was always a catnapped, and once he slept all night I found he did two solid day sleeps. I can't tell you how much it changed our lives...

My younger one was alway more settled, feeding overnight took minimal time and he always went back to sleep without fuss from very young. I also started teaching some limited self settling when he was only a few months old during day sleeps, so experience made some difference. I did cc to get rid of the night feeding and with him the results were mixed. It took a few weeks to get the sleep thru consistent, mostly because I was a bit inconsistent with what I did.  it also happend to coincide with daylight savings, so once the time moved he slept thru the 5am wakings.

I'd focus on nights or days first...personally I'd do the nights first, day sleeps are harder, and ultimately I felt I needed the night sleep over the breaks during the day if your happy to keep feeding set a time after which you will feed, and settle using cc before that. If you genuinely feel he is hungry it's unlikely he will settle....


#18 MissM86

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

Havent read all the replies but when I used this method on my 15 month old I only used it for the night time sleeps. It worked in two nights. I still rock and pat her to sleep for the day sleeps and pat her to sleep at night but once asleep she now stays asleep. I did CC to stop the constant night waking and co-sleeping and did the CC from the first night wake up (not to teach her to self settle). Anyway, it hasn't confused her and means she sleeps through the night now.

ETA: Sorry, just read that you are not fussed about sleeping through and your child is a lot younger than mine was so not sure if that was helpful!

Edited by MissM86, 10 February 2013 - 06:58 AM.


#19 leisamd

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

I think (it's been a while since I read it) that Ms Barker recommends a time limit within which it will work if it's going to.  So if it hasn't worked then you need a new strategy for that time.  In your situation (and I've been there) I'd take a break from trying to settle the child for a little while and do something calming instead - since both of you are probably a little anxious/upset, re-set the environment to calm.  Something like a bath/shower or walk, then if time permits I might try the feed-settle routine again.

#20 Kay1

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:20 AM

Thank you everyone. I have only actually had to do the cc three times at night and twice during the day. He has settled with no crying for all his other sleeps. original.gif I have gained HOURS!!! Every now and then he has a daysleep that isn't happening. I have made a limit of 30 mins (with visits every 5-10 mins) and after that I get him up and either 'reset' as leisamd suggested or feed him to sleep on the couch when he really just has to sleep (like yesterday, he'd only had a 45 min afternoon sleep and needed a third nap or he'd be a write off for dinner/bedtime).

I think at some stage I'll have to break the night waking habit. Maybe when daylight saving ends because this is when it is likely to become a problem for me. Also it won't be as hot so he will sleep better hopefully.

#21 kwiggle

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:41 AM

DS taught me to use CC because if I went to him immediately bedtime would turn into a nightmare.  If I let him grizzle for a few minutes he would fall asleep & I could have a pleasant evening!  
The things I've learned in the last couple of months of rubbish sleep (DS is now 8 months) is that night weaning and self-soothing need to be tackled separately.  Plus I love this website - www.troublesometots.com.  It's very pro CC, but the blogger has a sense of humour, which I really need when at my wits end.
Good luck everyone!



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