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#1 NicolinaO

Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

So I have finally got DS who is 3 mnths old to sleep (for the most part) through the night for approx 6 hours or so (roughly from around 10pm to 6 am give or take an hour or so either side).
So when we get up in the morning things are usually rather rosy and I am enjoying being a mum.... but then comes the day. And during daytime DS will not sleep whatsoever unless on top of me just after a feed (and even then for no longer than about 30-40 min). As the day progresses he is obviously getting more and more tired and cranky and gets harder and harder to get to settle down at all. He gets soooo wired when this tired..

I am at wits end getting him to sleep at day. Have tried leeting him sob while supervised, tried feeding to sleep, tried just about everything I have been able to find on forums etc.... no luck

Does anyone have any tips for me so I get five minutes to go to the toilet without stressing about a baby crying during the day?

#2 Wacky Wobbler

Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

I think we share the same Son original.gif

Mine is exactly the same age and does the exact same thing. Yesterday DS wouldn't even sleep on me and it took 13 hours to finally get him to sleep.

I'm at a loss as to what to do.

The lack of day sleep has been affecting his night sleep but I don't know what else to do. I have been trying to get him to have some sleeps in his bed but if I am lucky enough to get him down it only lasts maybe 1 sleep cycle if I'm lucky.

If you find a way for getting longer sleeps and not always on my chest I would love to know.

Good luck!

#3 NicolinaO

Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

The one thing I have figured out puffsgirl11 is that more sleep+ more sleep haha sounds easy right? well it is once you get them down for A sleep. DSD is like this anyway, if I can get him to have one good sleep, then he will nap nicely all day + sleep at night. And the less he sleeps, the harder it is to get him rto.

A few times I have managed to get him to sleep a little in the day by simply spending most part of the day on the bad with him next to me/ or in the bf-ing chair with him on top of me. That way I can let him sleep/eat/sleep/eat - which seems to get him some rest at least. this seems to make him a little easier to settle at night.. only thing is apart from me going insane and getting nothing else done on such days it doesnt always work either...

so ditto puffsgirl11  - figure any tricks out let me know haha




#4 Kay1

Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

What about in the pram or sling?

Daysleep does generally improve at around 4 months. The real trick is getting there with some shred of sanity intact. Good luck!

#5 KylieMH

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

my son was the same...he is now 4.5 months and he finally has put himself into a sleeping routine. in the early days i was trying everything to get him to sleep with no success, it was driving me nuts as he just wouldnt settle.. i was frustrated and had no idea what to do..but the last 2 weeks, he will sleep about 40mins in the morning..about 1.5hours at lunch, and another 40min sleep about 330..i know its still not enough sleep that he requires during the day,  but we are getting there. hang in there , i def saw improves around the 4 month mark

#6 NicolinaO

Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

thanks for the replies original.gif I guess I will just wait and hope the 4 month mark will come fast! He actually had a little (25 min) nap today after morning feed + play  ohmy.gif So we are starting today on a better note.

KylieMH - I would be so happy if I even just got him to nap like your son

the pram or sling works to some extent: if i go to a shop (lots of pple, noise, lights) and walk around for hours.. he will then eventually stare himself tired and have a nap - say 40 min. Feels like the sleep he gets from that is not worth the exhaustion of both him and me though..

I do use the pram when walking the dog though and it seems to help calm him down when hyper.



#7 Miss Lily

Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

OP can you borrow a swing from a friend to see if that helps? My now 3.5 month old son wouldnt sleep well during the day ith a 40 minute (ie one sleep cycle) nap if lucky. I tried EVERYTHING and he didnt have bad sleep associations either, just would.not.stay.asleep! But since I put him down for naps in his swing he sleeps like a champion, aound 1.5 hour naps which is just incredible. So Im a huge fan of swings.
I also find that loud white noise (there are apps you can download, CDs or just radio static) is a huge sleep cue, we use a dummy too and a dark room. Honestly before these things it was a diffetent baby!
I have the Bright Starts Ingenuity Portable Swing which I got for $100 from target(on special mind you) and I highly reccommrnd it, especially since its portable and means bubs will sleep well if Im over at my mums place etc.
Goodluck!

#8 CLT

Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

I feel your pain sad.gif my DD was like that too! She slept in my arms for the first eight months of her life! Now DS 13w is doing the same and I aim for one good nap a day and morning nap on me. Usually good nap: 1-3 hrs in a wrap or carrier so I could spend some time with DD. Sorry no help here, just wanna share your frustration.

#9 NicolinaO

Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:22 AM

Ok, so yesterday I tried feeding DS a tiny bit of baby rice cereal.. HE ABSOLUTELY LOOOOVES THE STUFF! Screamed like I was hurting him when I figured he had enough for a first time, bf fed him again after too. And two minutes later he is fast asleep! I am trying the same thing again around lunch today to see if this may just be the trick to hes sleeping. I will get back with an update later on - it was just that I had a chance to write undisturbed this morning as I woke up (boob feeling like it is going to burst) and the baby.... is still asleep!!! I am having breaky - by my self!!!
(sorry about the !! I am just so baffled)
So anyway, all you other ladies, try feeding some solids, perhaps your little ones too are just ready for some proper food =)

Miss Lily - a swing sounds like it could work but I have no friends who own one (have no friends with little ones). I might have to buy one.

#10 CLT

Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

Might be too early to start solids?

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-i...cing-solid-food

http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/infant...n/en/index.html

https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-info/we...solidsconfusion

#11 IShallWearMidnight

Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:35 AM

QUOTE (CLT @ 09/02/2013, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed!
Any both my kids slept WORSE after I started solids

#12 butterflydreaming

Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:45 AM

please please please don't start your baby on rice cereal it is so not good for them, it's just empty calories, very little nutrition and will mean they take less breastmilk so less overall nutrition.

#13 Futureself

Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:07 AM

I really don't think solids are the answer - he is simply too little.
However he may be hungry. Has your supply been an issue and are his weight and height gains been monitored? Not settling is a sign of a hungry baby. I would rule that out first especially if you say the one day he was calm was when you let him feed, feed, feed in bed.

DS however was not hungry but simply refused to day sleep anywhere except on me  in a sling up until about a month ago. He did nice long 2-3 hour sleeps in there though so it worked well for us. I second the white noise app, it is a sleep cue for us too and helped transition him into his bassinet for the day. He also uses a dummy to fall asleep.
Do you wrap? We thought DS was ready to be unwrapped but found his startle reflex still woke him so he's still in an ergocacoon.

#14 NicolinaO

Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

oh dear, ok. I probably wasn't clear enough in my description (I'm going to blame a underslept, hardly functioning brain).

I have not supplemented one of his normal feeds, he simply had a taste of some cereal as well. BF both before as well as after, then slept for a bit.

Now I'm unsure if his more pleasant behaviour the last few days has been due to his now occasional taste of solids (he tasted some banana today) or if it is due to something else. All I can say is it seems he truly enjoys having a taste of something while he sits at the table with me as I have some lunch.

I would like to think that giving him a taste of solids at now less than two weeks off from four months is not way early even if, perhaps,  at the earliest.

CLT - the links you posted contradict each other.. the ABA one is very well written though and also supported by references. It does point out that 4 months is a good time to start solids (or more - or less maybe -  specifically sometime between 4 and 6 months - depending on baby's signs of readiness). If I am not mistaking the article re-states the WHO's guidelines of 6 months. This however reads as that a baby NEEDS to start solids at 6 months (due to nutritional  need for iron and zink), not 6 months at the earliest. The referenced literature seems to say that starting earlier is beneficial (in terms of tolerance etc) .
Do correct me if I am reading this wrong.

That cereal is a filler and should not be used as a supplement is a given to me. The cereal I have had DS taste so far has not been in replacement of BFing and has been made up with EBM. So it should not have a major effect on my supply, nor is it completely lacking nutrients.

DS is growing well, putting on weight as he should (and some). So there is, and has not been, any issues with my supply. I can often express a little more after he has finished BFing.

Edited by NicolinaO, 11 February 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#15 lucky 2

Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

Hi Nicolina, 4 months would be the absolute earliest to start offering other foods.
According to the WHO Complementary feeding guidelines around 6 months is the research based recommendation (at the time they were accepted).
The "Raising Children Network" (which is the Australian Gov parenting website) recommends around 6 months as well.
http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/whe.../context/232The
The release of the NHMRC Infant Feeding Guidelines, which will form the basis of Australian recommendations, has been delayed so who know's what they will recommend, ? around six months or earlier. They were meant to be released last year.
http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/guidelines/publications/n20
I hope that helps clarify the situation, there isn't full agreement amongst the experts who have an interest in the introduction of solids, hopefully the new NHMRC guidelines will help parents feel more confident about his aspect of baby care.
All the best.

#16 lady lady

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (NicolinaO @ 11/02/2013, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
DS is growing well, putting on weight as he should (and some). So there is, and has not been, any issues with my supply. I can often express a little more after he has finished BFing.



If he is growing well (as you mentioned) he definetley does not need solids at 3.5 months.  He is obviously getting enough through milk otherwise he wouldn't be gaining weight.

My DD#2 is the same age as yours and currently puts anything offered to her in her mouth and enjoys it, this is developmental and not a sign of hunger.  Two weeks difference is huge in baby world - it could mean the difference between having the tounge thrust and not.

My DD is also currently hard to settle during the day.. again this is developmental.  

Solids are not the answer to sleep at this age.

OP if this is your first LO I can understand you are trying to find the holy grail to having a sleeping baby, sleep deprivation is TOUGH.... but he is still very little and will eventually find his groove.

#17 CLT

Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

My apologies if I confused you as DS (14 w) is also very unsettled and I've to run after a toddler too. Anyway, some recommands four months at the earliest but if your LO is fully BF, by introducing solids so young you distrupting the delicate nature of his gut flora sad.gif

http://www.health-e-learning.com/articles/JustOneBottle.pdf

As others mentioned, your bubs is not even four months yet and two weeks short of four make a big difference in babyworld. Have you been to the Dr maybe?


#18 NicolinaO

Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

So, with this tread now well off the tack of sleeping, I have spent the last few days reading about introduction of solids in detail. (Thanks ladies who posted link) Would post articles as links too only most of them are not freely accessible online (I get them through the university database).

It seems to me, that waiting till 4 months, or more specifically when this time is stated - 17 weeks, is based on the risk of infection. Specifically gastrointestinal tract infection. This risk seem about equal at 4 months as it does before 4 months though. Hence I guess, the WHO's recent change to the guidelines from 4-6 months to 6 months. As one of the articles states:

"This change was based on evidence that showed the potential for reduction in infant morbidity and mortality with prolonged exclusive breastfeeding"


The other side of the argument seems to be related to allergies. And quite a lot of the literature i found seems to indicate that earlier exposure = tolerance.

So I'm coming to the conclusion that someplace in the middle is preferable. Small amounts of tasting should be fine, if not even good, but keeping it to no more than tasting till 6 months (unless showing signs of zinc or iron deficiency) is to strive for.

Strengthening my conclusion is the many confused statements and definitions of exclusive breastfeeding I have come across. As well, most of the studies I was able to find seemed to have quite a large portion of mothers choosing to introduce tasting to some degree at or even before 4 months. Many showed about half of the mothers had done it to some degree at 4 months.

In the end I don't think him tasting solids now (not every day but when he seems interested) is going to harm him in any way. And as I think I said before once he sleeps some he sleeps better, and since the original post there has been a bit of improvement thankfully. Be that due to his tasting of solids, him getting past a spurt of some kind or perhaps me getting a small chance to breath some days now so I can better care for him.. I don't know. But it definately peaked the day I posted originally

#19 Futureself

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

Thanks is part to poor reporting my the media there is confusion about what is meant by "early introduction" in regards to intolerances and allergies. What is actually meant is earlier than 12 months. It used to be that people were warned off introducing many foods until after 12 months as it was thought that assisted in allergy prevention. It appears to be wrong and in fact "earlier" than 12 months is considered best practice now. So by early, that is still 22-26 weeks as the NHMRC has indicated will be in their new recommendation.

Regardless, I very glad you're getting a breather and it's not so intense!

Edited by futureself, 13 February 2013 - 09:15 AM.


#20 minidiamond

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:02 PM

Glad you're getting a chance to 'breathe'.  You are actually pretty lucky to get a 6 (or 7 or 8) hour sleep at night at this age, in effect sleeping through.  I know this doesn't help during the day but it's one win at least.  

Does your bub sleep in a pram ? Can you try a daily walk & try to get some sleep then ? It's not the best option long term but it does at least get him to sleep and also the fresh air is great for you.

I'm assuming you've tried transferring once asleep on you and it doesn't work ?

As for the solids, 'tasting' solids is pretty much taking solids.  Personally I wouldn't start before 4 months but that's totally up to you.  There's pretty decent research as to why 4 months is (about to become) the recommended introduction time in Australia, and 6 months remains the WHO recc.  My other concern would be possible consipation etc on rice cereal (I have decided to drop it altogether for DS who's been on solids just over 4 weeks) but assuming that's ok too.

Sorry I don't have any more advice on the day sleeps.  My DS now 6 months does 2 x 45 mins in morning & arvo & 1 x 30 mins at lunchtime.  I felt like I should be able to get more things done while he was asleep until a friend came round and said 'is that IT?' when he woke up 'how on earth do you get anything DONE?' - in a weird way it made me feel better.

Edited by minidiamond, 13 February 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#21 NicolinaO

Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

minidiamonds - yes I am aware I am lucky having him sleep rather well at night. original.gif if he didn't do that I think I would truly be going insane!  He does not let me transfer him, and I walk him+me+dog most days and he is so curious he is almost more awake when we come back in. Sometimes he can fall asleep in the car, but wakes as soon as the moving stops.

All in all I think he is doing a little better over the last week. He still isn't getting anywhere near enough though, but at least it is getting better.

#22 Ms_Jae

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

My 3 month old sleeps all night.. from 7pm right through until 5:30am..
Day time.. he has a sleep in the morning for about an hour then another one in the afternoon..
Our routine is 6pm bath, then bottle, then bed..

He cries during the day when no one is giving him attention, so sometimes getting things done is hard.. but all in all.. he is great.!!






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