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Prep enrolment-change of mind
anyone enrolled...late to start??


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#1 newphase

Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

So, today on my way to get my yr 8 daughter some new school pants I all of the sudden thought...I should have enrolled DS in Prep (VIC FYOS) to start why didn't I?? unsure.gif

Has anyone changed their mind and enrolled their child last minute like I am SERIOUSLY considering??

DS did go to one transition to primary school last year, then I decided to send him to a 2nd yr of kinder instead. A few kids from his kinder have gone, and we know 2 other kids starting also thru friends, not that that is a reason at all.

I just think I freaked so much last year, agonized actually re deciding to send him or not (almost cut off April boy...cut off being end April in VIC) re the trend to hold Feb/Mar.April kids, especially boys...more so Mar/April kids, and just the though of him pretty much being one of the youngest scared me...and he is my last to go to school also (of 3 kids).

My DS1 goes to the school I intend to send DS2 to, he is in grade 6.

My DS1 a May baby, so started the year he turned 6 as he had to, and DS2 is at the same, if not higher level, emotionally, socially and academically than he was a whole yr older starting, still struggles with maths big time..3 different tutors on mad.gif .

Point is fretting aside I think I made a mistake and he should go but feel stupid re going to school and saying I have changed my mind. I have been seriously thinking re this all arvo.

This was fueeld by a discussion with one of his kinder friends Mums who had her eldest son complete
Prep last yr and talking re what they did etc...seems so right up his alley and his ability level for sure!!

My older two started qat a private school so the standard was a lot higher, a lot more expected and in that environment I'd wonder, but that said my eldest started their a yr older than DS2 and they wanted to repeat him in grade 1 even though he was amongst the eldest in his class already.

Rambling now.....anyone?? unsure.gif

#2 bjk76

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:39 PM

DS's birthday is end of March and although he's only 22mo, I've been thinking about whether or not to keep him back a year. I was 4.5 when I started school (May birthday) and although I was fine academically, I was also quite shy and anxious, but then again, I think that was my nature and this improved over time.

Initially I thought I'd definitely keep him back, but recently I've been thinking it's better to enrol him on time for 3 and 4yo kinder and listen to his kinder teacher's recommendations. I think it is up to the individual child as to whether they're ready or not and you shouldn't do one thing or the other just because everyone else is doing it with their kids. I wouldn't want DS being bored at kinder because he's ready to move up to school.

They had a discussion of keeping kids back on Radio National this week, which might be useful for you to listen to:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/progra...-back-2/4492550

I wouldn't worry too much about starting your DS late to the school year. - It's only a few days and it's not going to have much of an effect in the long run.

Good luck with your decision!

#3 frozie

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:59 PM

A friend was going to send her DS for another year of 4yo kinder (in Vic) as she was unsure about whether to send him to school or not.   As her other kids were getting excited about school going back, he started getting all excited about starting school so 2 days before term started, she went up to the school to see if she could still get him in.  She had filled out enrolment forms last year and even though her DS hadn't been to any of the transition groups and she hadn't had any further contact about his enrolment with the school, luckily he still had a spot there.. and he is absolutely loving it so far and she feels really relieved that the right decision has been made.

If you feel strongly enough about it, definitely approach the school and see if you can get him in.

#4 newphase

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:12 PM

Thanks for the replies! Listening to that ABC radio discussion now, and have been reading an attached paper re the topic too lol

I think I am DEFINATELY leaning towards going to the school on Monday original.gif !

And yes they kids have only had 2 half days at the school thus far so no big stuff missed yet I'd say! original.gif

#5 unicycle

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

I wish I had thought part way through the year to do that with my daughter! Never occurred to me. Go for it. They change so much from when you have to make a decision.

#6 yabbadabbadoo

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

I say go for it, a year is a long time!  You know your child and wouldn't be thinking like this if you didn't think he was ready.

#7 elizabethany

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

After a week no one will remember that he was a few days late.  Go for it OP.

#8 IsolaBella

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

Go for it.

I had to take DS1 out of school for a week in prep for a family wedding interstate (where he would be seeing cousins visiting from EU for the week too). We did that after two weeks of Prep. That had me more worried then missing first days.

Our school has basically sent home in the newsletter that the first 1.5wks of school are more just 'fun' as the teachers get to know their class and the class gets to know their classmates, plus some standard gathering.



#9 CocobeanLillylove

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

I can't understand why people don't just send their kids to school when it is the right time for their age? (unless of course serious learning difficulties and recommended not to by a specialist) Someone has to be the youngest in the class and youngest doesn't necessarily mean anything anyway. If there are any problems surely the teacher would talk to the parents about repeating a grade and so unless a teacher recommends a repeat I would send them on to the following year level.

#10 JRA

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

Go for it.

Kids seem to mature so much over the summer, especially in your case with siblings around.

Good luck

#11 janeway

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

Go for it if you feel he is ready & the school will accept his enrolment, even if he has to start a day or 2 later.

I was considering a second year of kinder, but my DS had lots of therapies/support groups which got him up to the bottom of the average rage in the areas he was lacking. Over the summer holidays the changes in him have been amazing to the point where I would have been absolutely crazy to hold him back with how he is now.

Good luck OP hope all goes well x



#12 Julie3Girls

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE
I can't understand why people don't just send their kids to school when it is the right time for their age.

But both years are right for their age. Both years are perfectly allowable. In NSW, children MAY start school if they turn 5 before July 31. Or they can start school the year they turn 6.  Would it be easier to take the choice away ...  Sure. A hard and fast cut off would be fine if all kids matured at the same rate, but they don't. Having that wider age range for starting gives those kids who are a bit socially or emotionally young, a chance to catch up and have a better start to school.

#13 jo-v

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

So glad WA doesn't seem to have this culture of holding kids back, my DS is a June baby (WA has end of June cut off) and so was the second youngest in his class at Kindy. He's was 100% fine and thrived, no problem at all keeping up with his peers and his teacher was thrilled with his progress.

He starts Pre-primary on Monday and I have no worries whatsoever that he'll be fine (despite starting at a new, private school).

Someone is always the oldest and someone is always the youngest.  shrug.gif

Hope they have a place for your DS and he has a great year.





#14 mum850

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

Do it!
I would prefer there was less choice too. If the child has a genuine special need that would be helped by holding back, all good. If it's just I don't' want my kid to be the youngest, or I want my kid to be a leader etc, you should have to jump through some sort of hoop, even if it's not as stringent as the criteria for early entry.
I worry that kids are being held back for parental reasons sometimes, not always of course. But how come it's fine to send  a WA april kid, could be OK to send a NSW april kid, and if you send an april kid in Vic the sky falls in.
prep is so benign in terms of academics and expectations.The kids are MEANT to be 4 or 5!

#15 Genabee

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (mum850 @ 02/02/2013, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do it!
I would prefer there was less choice too. If the child has a genuine special need that would be helped by holding back, all good. If it's just I don't' want my kid to be the youngest, or I want my kid to be a leader etc, you should have to jump through some sort of hoop, even if it's not as stringent as the criteria for early entry.
I worry that kids are being held back for parental reasons sometimes, not always of course. But how come it's fine to send  a WA april kid, could be OK to send a NSW april kid, and if you send an april kid in Vic the sky falls in.
prep is so benign in terms of academics and expectations.The kids are MEANT to be 4 or 5!


DD is a June baby.

We currently live in VIC and she is due to start school here in 2015. However, we have her on a list to start school in Perth in 2014, just in case we decide to move back there (DH and I are both from Perth originally). The difference - VIC cut off is April, WA cut off is June 30. What is even more frustrating, is that she will probably be more than ready to start school next year, the year before she is allowed to here in VIC.

Back when I went to school, the 'cut off date' was the calendar year!! I understand why cut off dates exist, but I think it needs to be the same across all states. It makes it really hard for those that move around, or just for some kind of consistency. I realise those that move interstate while at school are probably in the minority, but even so... What is good for one, should be good for all.

What about those kids who are more than ready to start school, but because of the cut offs, they aren't allowed to? In same cases, if the child was living in another state, they would be able to start school that year earlier. Gah!





#16 newphase

Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

Thanks for the replies original.gif .

Decided it's off to the school I go Monday, though not sure how I will do it as I am meant to be going to school with my daughter who is starting Monday (yr 8) as she has an ASD and bad anxiety so wants me there the WHOLE day...and the 2 schools are not near each other.

Another issue I have (bad timing I know...but boys were both meant to be going away with their father originally also, tis why I booked the holiday) is I am going away Thursday for a week, so I hope DS settles at Prep as he probably wont start until Tuesday, and they have Wednesdays off, so will have one day there before I go away unsure.gif damn it.

Edited by newphase, 02 February 2013 - 03:08 PM.


#17 unicycle

Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE (CocobeanLillylove @ 02/02/2013, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't understand why people don't just send their kids to school when it is the right time for their age? (unless of course serious learning difficulties and recommended not to by a specialist) Someone has to be the youngest in the class and youngest doesn't necessarily mean anything anyway. If there are any problems surely the teacher would talk to the parents about repeating a grade and so unless a teacher recommends a repeat I would send them on to the following year level.

I have held one back due to extreme shyness leading to being bullied in kinder and defiantly sent one despite being told not to send. That one would have been one and a half years older than the youngest in the class.
There are all sorts of reasons we are holding children back.

I think many of us do it because we believe school starts too early in Australia.

Also, because when we have to make a decision, in May, for the following  year some of our children are not ready and it is hard to make that call, as decisions for kindergarten need to be made for a repeat.

There is such a difference in the start to school that students have who are ready and those who aren't . Sometimes the bad first year can have effects for a long time on learning.

Finally, many of us also have kindergarten teachers stating categorically that our child is not ready and they call in professionals for assessment. It is hard work , then , to say " no my child's will go to school"  When the experts are saying so because the child is not ready emotionally or socially. Trust me on this one.

I hope this goes a little way to answering your question.

Something I found inequitable about the situation which I hadn't thought through, was that in last year of primary school, the cohort my kept back child was in had a predominance of held back children voted in to positions of leadership( including my child). I think this was an unfair consequence of being more mature, in part.

#18 mum850

Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

How did it go today OP?

#19 Kay1

Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:35 PM

This age advantage is the reason most of the people I know who have 'held back' have done so. There is a book that addresses this effect in detail (amongst other indicators of success and various interesting phenomena). Its called Outliers.


#20 tenar

Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

PP why would it be wrong to hold kids back for "parental reasons"?   You imply that those would somehow be the wrong reasons, why so?  Whose reasons would be better?

Or why would it be wrong that a child ends up in the middle of their age cohort rather than being the youngest by a mile?  

Of course some April babies (Vic) are mature for their age and some are not.  What on earth is wrong with parents being able to decide to send the more mature kid younger and the less mature kid older?  That benefits everyone, including the other children in the class, who don't have to cope with an immature or bored classmate.  

OP I hope you have found a good solution for your son.  

We have decided to keep our end-of-April DD1 back for another year of 3yo kindy.  This decision was not taken lightly at all, and I am still worried about it.  It's awful having to make this call so far out from when she will actually start school.  Where we are it would take something really dire to allow her to repeat 4yo kindy, even if we and the teachers thought she needed it.  So the decision has to be made when the child is 3.  It sucks.

#21 Spa Gonk

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:53 PM

How did you go?

Thanks to the poster who put up the abc link.  I read the accompanying paper and found it really interesting!  31% of kids are held back in NSW, as opposed to 1% in WA and 0% in TAS.  I have a child born a few days before cut off and after reading about so any people holding back I often wonder if I am doing the wrong thing by sendin him.  The article helped show that the holding back thing is really only a big issue in NSW and VIC and to a lesser extent QLD.

#22 FEdeRAL

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

To the PPs who are going to put their kids for another 4yo kinder, are you doing it through the private system or getting funded? We recently submitted DS' kinder application and the forms said that unless your child qualifies for funding to a repeat 4yo kinder, he/she is not eligible for a second year of 4yo, even unfunded (ie. parents bearing full costs). We are in Victoria.


QUOTE (triumvirate @ 04/02/2013, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Something I found inequitable about the situation which I hadn't thought through, was that in last year of primary school, the cohort my kept back child was in had a predominance of held back children voted in to positions of leadership( including my child). I think this was an unfair consequence of being more mature, in part.

The idea of holding back a child is very foreign to me. Where I went to school they did it based on calendar year cut-off, no one questioned it - I guess it was the norm in the old days?

Just yesterday I was talking to a mother group's friend who was going to send her DD to 3yo kinder next year, then defer a year, before going to 4yo kinder the year after (April baby). Her reason being older kids have better leadership skills and therefore do better in school than their peers. Last Christmas I had the same conversation with two of my neighbours whose children were older, born in March, and they were both held back for the same reasons.

DS was born prematurely in December, but his actual due date was March, so I was adopting the wait and see attitude but more inclined towards sending him on time but since then I was wondering if I do that I am not giving him his best chance? It's all doing my head in a little bit but I guess time will soon tell.



#23 myboyz

Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:18 PM


I've had a similar Dilema that had been causing me sleepless nights really.
My ds is a March baby, we are in Sa and it's the culture here to send your child according to the dates and def no holding kids back for what ever reason.
I'm from Vic though where this is the opposite.......so I was thinking I would hold ds back so that he would be turning 6 in the March of that yr he started.

Anyway I thought I would see how he went at Kindy and if he struggled then I would def hold him back. I have since learnt that they only get funded for one yr of Kindy.
So my thought is to send him to school the yr he turns 5 in the March which is when he "should " be starting and if he struggles then he can repeat the yr of prep. That's what I'm thinking for now lol......could change ;-)


Good luck op :-)

#24 mum850

Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:16 AM

When I said parental reasons, I meant things like

"I can't bear to let him go to school yet, I want him to have another year at home with me"
or
"I want her to be one of the oldest so she can be a leader"

cos they are more about the needs of the parent than of the child

OTOH  child centred  reasons would be,
"She has just started speech therapy and she is making great progress, and needs to consolidate her language skills before starting" or "he has ASD and  being a little bit older would be very helpful in terms of social skills and behaviour"

There are a couple, no I can think of three off the top of my head, of kids who are held back for "want them to be a leader" type reasons  in the top groups for academics and their parents have been down at the school many times asking for extension etc. Yup, well they should be in the next grade up!

I am actually so far in the other camp that my youngest is starting early this year. I am thinking of the long term and I want her to learn stuff at school, and to NOT be the top student, to learn to try, and put effort in. My two older kids were old for grade as in 5y 8m, but I was not able to send them the year ealier cos we are in VIc. My oldest found first years of school a very frustrating experience and ended up being grade skipped.

#25 tenar

Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE (mum850 @ 06/02/2013, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I said parental reasons, I meant things like

"I can't bear to let him go to school yet, I want him to have another year at home with me"


Well I agree that sometimes that one seems very parent-centered.  But on the other hand there are a lot of people who believe that 4 or 5 is too young for children to start school.  Some well respected educational philosophies argue that children aren't ready for formal education until they are about 7 years old.  In my opinion, it's easy to see the economic benefits (both at a personal/family level and a national level) of children being in school from when they are 4 or 5, but harder to see the benefits to the children themselves.  

QUOTE
or
"I want her to be one of the oldest so she can be a leader"


Well I disagree with you there.  What is wrong with a parent wanting their child to have opportunities to lead or teach other children rather than always learning from or following other children, just because of the developmental level they are at.  Actually this is one of the arguments that our DD1's kindy teacher used to convince us to repeat 3yo kinder.  She reckons that we could either send DD on to 4yo kindy this year and see her struggle to keep up socially with the others, or we could keep her in 3yo kindy and see her be a leader among her classmates.  

PP which would you prefer for your child?  

QUOTE
OTOH  child centred  reasons would be,
"She has just started speech therapy and she is making great progress, and needs to consolidate her language skills before starting" or "he has ASD and  being a little bit older would be very helpful in terms of social skills and behaviour"


So in your opinion it's only the children who are behind for some reason who might benefit from being older in their cohort rather than the youngest by months?

QUOTE
There are a couple, no I can think of three off the top of my head, of kids who are held back for "want them to be a leader" type reasons  in the top groups for academics and their parents have been down at the school many times asking for extension etc. Yup, well they should be in the next grade up!


Well it's more complicated than that, actually, PP.  (actually you are unlucky, because you are raising issues here that I have thought about in great detail for years now, ever since I realised that we'd have to make this judgement for DD1 and that it wouldn't be straightforward due to her birthdate which is 5 days before the Vic cutoff, so I am sounding off at you.  It's not personal).

We have the "fun" situation of having a very bright child, possibly gifted, with a birthday just before the cutoff.  Seems simple, doesn't it - send her young.  But actually, in her social development she is right spot on for her age, which means that if we send her to school young she will be socially months behind her classmates.  As was clear when I observed her in her kindy class late last year.  Since 4yo kindy will require skills of collaborative and cooperative play that she doesn't yet have because she's still only 3, we decided, on the advice of the teacher and with much deliberation, to repeat 3yo kindy this year.  

So the message is, it's complicated original.gif  And yes, I am likely to be one of those parents advocating for academic extension for my child when I could have sent her to school a year earlier and she might have needed less extension.  With a child like this whose development in different areas is uneven, which need do you meet: their need for intellectual stimulation or their need to develop social skills commensurate with their peers?

QUOTE
I am actually so far in the other camp that my youngest is starting early this year. I am thinking of the long term and I want her to learn stuff at school, and to NOT be the top student, to learn to try, and put effort in. My two older kids were old for grade as in 5y 8m, but I was not able to send them the year ealier cos we are in VIc. My oldest found first years of school a very frustrating experience and ended up being grade skipped.


And of course I hope this works out for your child, just as I hope that our choice works for mine original.gif




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