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Punishment for not staying in bed


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#1 msro82

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

Dd is 5 (6 in April)the last two weeks and she has been awful when going to sleep, carrying on for hours saying she can't sleep. Sometime she sleeps in and others she doesn't. She still needs 11-12 hrs sleep to be reasonable the next day.

I get that you can't just fall asleep if you are not tired, but I expect her To stay in her bed and read books or listen to gentle music. I don't expect her to get up, trash her room, be rude to be or hide in other parts of the house.

What is a suitable and targeted punishment for this for not staying in bed and doing what was asked? She really doesn't have a currency.

I expect this behaviour will lessen when school goes back next week, I am guessing its the lack of routine.

She is generally pretty good with bedtimes (well apart from the first 3.5 years of her life when she never slept!)

TIA

#2 -*meh*-

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

first i would be assessing her bedtime to make sure its suitable for her... what time is bedtime?

Does she have a routine, one that calms her down before bed?

Then i would be removing anything from her room that is an "extra"... books, toys, teddies etc... hard to trash when you have limited things to trash with.

#3 msro82

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (-*meh*- @ 29/01/2013, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
first i would be assessing her bedtime to make sure its suitable for her... what time is bedtime?

Does she have a routine, one that calms her down before bed?

Then i would be removing anything from her room that is an "extra"... books, toys, teddies etc... hard to trash when you have limited things to trash with.


Her bedtime is 6:30/7pm. Some people will say this is too early, but honestly she cannot cope with later.

We read a story together, then she picks out 3 books to 'read' by herself and she listens to her twinkle twinkle. Fail safe method for two years!

I get the feeling that she is testing how far she can go with mucking around at bedtime, one of the reasons I am seeking a suitable punishment. it will obviously have to take place the next day. When I refer to routine, I am meaning around what we are doing during the day (school holidays - I have always worked, this is her first time home for such a long period)

#4 EssentialBludger

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

Probably not popular, but when DD can't sleep she is allowed to listen to an audiobook. She's usually asleep within half an hour.

#5 FeralCrazyMum

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

I would maybe look at changing the bedtime routine, tell her this is a 'big girl' bedtime routine. Nothing major, just tweaks that work for you. Also agree with removing distractions from the room.

Would a reward chart help for her??



#6 winterlove

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

A couple of suggestions, I am not sure if they will help because they are very specific to my DS who is 4.

Firstly, he likes to fall asleep with his door open and the light in the hall way on - if he is going through a stage of coming out I threaten to close his door. It seems to work straight away although he could easily re-open it.

Secondly, he likes to take all sorts of toys with him to bed and I have at times confisicated toys if he keeps getting up.

Finally, if we are doing something special the next day I say that I may have to reconsider if he does not go to sleep.

#7 Cat People

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

I would leave it and see what happens next week when school starts.



#8 *-*

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

What exactly does she do, when she "can't sleep".  

Have you asked her what is stopping her from sleeping?  Some kids can have a REAL problem falling asleep.  



#9 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:59 PM



QUOTE (EssentialBludger @ 29/01/2013, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Probably not popular, but when DD can't sleep she is allowed to listen to an audiobook. She's usually asleep within half an hour.


We do this too. Kids love them, especially roald Dahl reading his own books.

#10 librablonde

Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

Our DFS1 is 6 and did this so we told him (after trying incentives, rewards, Time Out's, changing bedtimes, quiet time before bed, etc and nothing worked), that if he played up at night-time or got out of bed before it was time (7am) then he would have to stay in bed longer in the morning. There were times he ended up staying in bed until mid-morning for seriously bad behaviour. He would rip the curtains down, rip framed pictures off his walls, pull everything out of his wardrobe and generally wake the entire family with his crashing around and screaming. So we told him that if he takes sleeping time away from the family by waking everyone that  he would have to make up that time by staying in bed longer and giving us all peace again. At first he would scream and carry on  during his extra bedroom time and we would tell him his time to make up didn't start until he was quiet. He soon learnt to stop carrying on and be quiet in his room and not come out of his bedroom. I would make sure he knew the other kids were doing something fun in another part of the house. Now the threat of having to spend longer in bed is usually all he needs to stop being destructive and settle himself down. His self-regulation of his behaviour has improved dramatically.

We also had to remove all stimuli from his bedroom: it is currently a bare bedroom with no toys or pictures. He earns toys to keep in his bedroom with quiet, respectful behaviour at bedtimes. He also loses the toy if he wakes the family with inconsiderate behaviour. We put a slide bolt on the top of his wardrobe so he couldn't open it and pull stuff out. Now if he is in a rage all he can do is pull the mattress off his bed and strip all the linen off. Any time he does that he has to put it all back on by himself (which is very difficult for a 6 year old, especially putting a quilt cover back on a quilt). So, he rarely does that now either. He's earning toys to keep in his room now.

All of this sounds extreme but we had to do this for his own safety and because sleep deprivation was causing so much stress for the whole family. Two months ago I also started him on therapeutic doses of Ethical Nutrients High Potency Fish Oil and his behaviour overall has improved dramatically. His rages are much less extreme now and he can focus and self-regulate more easily.

Again, I know it sounds extreme and the EB naysayers will say that all sounds barbaric, but we've had to do it and DFS is a much calmer, more rested boy as a result.

Edited by librablonde, 30 January 2013 - 06:50 AM.


#11 msro82

Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (*~Katrina~* @ 29/01/2013, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What exactly does she do, when she "can't sleep".  

Have you asked her what is stopping her from sleeping?  Some kids can have a REAL problem falling asleep.


I always ask ' what do you need to go to sleep' and 'why can't you sleep' answer is always I'm not tired, despite the fact that she can't keep her eyes open.

I think we will look at a reward chart, if she goes to bed and stays in bed without any issues for the whole week, she can have a reward.

Will also have to look into some audio books! We have used dinosnores in the past, she doesn't really like them now.

#12 mumandboys

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:37 AM

I have this same problem with my almost 10 year old.  His bedtime is 8:30pm but he's not been getting to sleep till 10:30.

He says he's not tired too.

#13 Bubblicious

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:40 AM

My DD is only 4, but on preschool nights is a horror to get to sleep cause they let her nap, no matter how often I say not to (side vent), so I have started a rewards chart, but backwards

Because she will easily get up more than 10 times, I have 10 small magnets on a piece of paper. Each time she gets up, I take one away. The first week, if tere were 3 or more left, she got a sticker. Slowly, we are working up keeping them all there.

I am rewarding every 2 nights, so Wednesday and Saturday. The rewards are small, like a snake after breakfast or painting on BIG sheets of paper (she I a really messy painter lol) and we are soowly getting there.

She still doesn't sleep before 10/1030 on a preschool night, but I can now get the washing up or a Zumba DVD done while she is reading or playing quietly in bed, where before, the second I left te room aw was at the door going 'muuuuuum'

#14 Sif

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

Mostly, I find, if my kids arch up about bedtime, it's only because they're not worn out from their day. Kids needs lots of physical exertion throughout the day to get all the wriggles out of their muscles. I'd be getting her to do more during the day - chances are, if you observe her throughout the day, she's not getting enough physical exertion - kids are very sedentary these days as a general rule.

#15 Kemma

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

I only have a 2y8m old and an 8 mo so I can only offer what works for my oldest DD..

But she loves to get up and 5/530 and scream and scream and scream.  She has a baby gate across her room door, she can actually get out of it, so it's really more a mental barrier, but it works for us.  

I actually reward her for staying in her room and not screaming.  It's called a 'staying in your room chocolate'.  original.gif

Punishment as such, doesn't work with her I've found, whether it's her age or her personality I don't know.  But reward the days she stays in with a choc or whatever and then work up to maybe staying in your room a week is a visit to the favourity playground or whatever...

It's very stressful.  I know.  With going to bed, I actually read to her til she's almost asleep.  I ahve to keep reminding her to stay quiet and keep your eyes closed but it works here.

#16 Madnesscraves

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

QUOTE (librablonde @ 30/01/2013, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our DFS1 is 6 and did this so we told him (after trying incentives, rewards, Time Out's, changing bedtimes, quiet time before bed, etc and nothing worked), that if he played up at night-time or got out of bed before it was time (7am) then he would have to stay in bed longer in the morning. There were times he ended up staying in bed until mid-morning for seriously bad behaviour. He would rip the curtains down, rip framed pictures off his walls, pull everything out of his wardrobe and generally wake the entire family with his crashing around and screaming. So we told him that if he takes sleeping time away from the family by waking everyone that  he would have to make up that time by staying in bed longer and giving us all peace again. At first he would scream and carry on  during his extra bedroom time and we would tell him his time to make up didn't start until he was quiet. He soon learnt to stop carrying on and be quiet in his room and not come out of his bedroom. I would make sure he knew the other kids were doing something fun in another part of the house. Now the threat of having to spend longer in bed is usually all he needs to stop being destructive and settle himself down. His self-regulation of his behaviour has improved dramatically.

We also had to remove all stimuli from his bedroom: it is currently a bare bedroom with no toys or pictures. He earns toys to keep in his bedroom with quiet, respectful behaviour at bedtimes. He also loses the toy if he wakes the family with inconsiderate behaviour. We put a slide bolt on the top of his wardrobe so he couldn't open it and pull stuff out. Now if he is in a rage all he can do is pull the mattress off his bed and strip all the linen off. Any time he does that he has to put it all back on by himself (which is very difficult for a 6 year old, especially putting a quilt cover back on a quilt). So, he rarely does that now either. He's earning toys to keep in his room now.

All of this sounds extreme but we had to do this for his own safety and because sleep deprivation was causing so much stress for the whole family. Two months ago I also started him on therapeutic doses of Ethical Nutrients High Potency Fish Oil and his behaviour overall has improved dramatically. His rages are much less extreme now and he can focus and self-regulate more easily.

Again, I know it sounds extreme and the EB naysayers will say that all sounds barbaric, but we've had to do it and DFS is a much calmer, more rested boy as a result.


I dont consider this extreme. I believe the bedroom is a place for relaxation and sleeping. it should be considered a 'quiet room' I only have DD's sleep toys in her room so it's bare with some pictures on the wall thats all. Its just a simple room when i look at it. She has a playroom for awake time. When she gets older I'll let her have books in her room as I consider them as a quiet time activity.


#17 amabanana

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

I have had the same problem with DD1.  She's been an awful sleeper since birth (and actually, before birth!) and I've tried all kinds of solutions.   What works depends on what the problem is and working that out is the hard part!
We tried removing everything from her room so she used her hands, voice and body to play.
We tried music, audio books etc but she just kept playing them over and over again and not sleeping.
We tried more physical exercise and it just resulted in more tantrums because she was over tired.
etc etc
I went to the GP, the MCHN and they all just gave the standard 'use a routine' answer and brushed me off.  sad.gif

Last year we ended up seeing a psychologist for other reasons and she helped me work out a new sleep routine.
DD is 5.5 now and we've found what works for us.  It may not work for you but this is what we do:
get a natural sleep aid from the compounding chemist
have a regular bedtime and rising time
get lots of sunshine when she wakes in the morning to help reset her clock
read to her and then let her read to herself for a determined period of time (30 mins in our case)
go back in, tuck her in, turn on her 'stars' (a light that projects lots of tiny lights around the room)
go back in after about 5 mins, put a sleep mask over her eyes, turn on an audio relaxation meditation.  (We tried ones for children and they didn't work because they were too 'exciting' so we swapped to an adult mediation and it worked a treat.  We tried about 10 before we found one that worked.)

If she comes out of her bedroom for any reason that we deem 'unacceptable' then she gets punished with removal of privileges (which is usually the computer).

As a PP mentioned, we've also had an improvement in behavior with a fish oil supplement.  Things also got better when we worked out DD has an intolerance to 160b, a food additive.

It's working for us.  Finally! original.gif

Good luck, OP.

#18 Holidayromp

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:47 AM

Gosh I was an awful sleeper but an incredibly active child.  Unfortunately the bedtimes set were at ridiculous hours like 6pm-6.30 right up until I was at least 10 and then about 8pm during my teenaged years.  It was far too early and I would lie awake for hours, often until after Mum and Dad went to bed and then I would be up at the crack of dawn having not slept much at all.

It had the opposite affect with me because I wasn't going to bed when I was naturally tired so lying wide awake in bed, tossing and turning prevented sleep and still wide awake hours later - I was getting even less sleep.

It is hard to sleep with daylight streaming in especially in the summer months.  It was also embarrassing especially when I got older about my ridiculously early bedtimes - I was going to bed the same time as my sister who was two years younger than me - the bedtime was okay for her and when we once shared a bedroom I would keep her awake because I couldn't sleep when we were separated it was torture hours after hours lying in bed not tired and then listening to Mum and Dad make their way to bed.

Then if I appeared tired during the day or whatever the answer was an even earlier bedtime which further compounded the problem.

Then there was the you beaut idea in one house when I was 11/12 that it was too hot upstairs so I was sent to sleep in the downstairs guest bedroom away from the rest of the family.  I did not feel very secure at all down there and I would be lucky to sleep a couple of hours but my parent's checking in on me in the morning would see me asleep and think that their idea would work.  I begged and pleaded to go back to my own bed where I was comfortable but it that took a few months to happen when the routine changed at home.

I hated bedtime.




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